I really don't care what it is called named or its distinction with a geographic area - - - - -
JUST GET THE DARN THING ON THE RAILS AND RUNNING !
JUST GET THE DARN THING ON THE RAILS AND RUNNING !
Thanks so much for sharing the info and link, moselman! I am glad that someone was actually able to access the meeting virtually--I tried to join via Zoom to watch and learn this info live, and they must not have updated the links because I couldn't get in via any format (call-in, Zoom on phone, on computer, etc.). So, very glad to hear this and thanks again for keeping us all updated!Latest updates posted today on Youtube -- this appears to be a presentation by the Great River Rail Commission.
I am scratching my head over that...what possible concern is it of Amtrak? Afraid of future competition? Not likely. Maybe limiting their space, or impeding their operation? Also not likely....-One of the stumbling blocks is that Amtrak wants exclusive rights to SPUD over all other users, something Ramsey County (the owner of SPUD) is not willing to grant.
Me too--I really can't think of what their big issue is. Certainly not a space issue at this time. That said, I wonder if it's possible that Amtrak is scared of Brightline coming up north and trying to run a competing MSP - CHI service at some point?! Maybe? I can't think of any possible concerns beyond that already far-fetched point. I am not saying that would be easy at ALL for Brightline to do, but I could see Ramsey County balking at exclusive rights for Amtrak if there's even been the slightest inkling of Brightline trying to serve this corridor at some point.I am scratching my head over that...what possible concern is it of Amtrak? Afraid of future competition? Not likely. Maybe limiting their space, or impeding their operation? Also not likely....
Ah yes, very true. My tired brain was only thinking about "space" in terms of the track storage space for the service equipment, not about the whole SPUD interior space issue. That's my pet peeve and it really is embarrassing; Ramsey County needs to get with the program and stop treating what is meant to be a intra- and inter-city transportation center as a glorified event space for "Doggie Depot" (lol) and loud weddings that force passengers to crowd behind pipe and drape.There were some fairly plausible rumors a while back of Amtrak being (understandably) unhappy that Ramsey County keeps renting out the SPUD waiting room for weddings and the like, squeezing all of the actual Amtrak customers off to the side of the space and making it hard for announcements to be heard over the DJs and so on. I'm reasonably sure they're referencing that, not trying to box out a theoretical Brightline competing service.
But I think they're going to have to get some of the Midwest cafe-lounges into service before anything will be available for the second Chicago-St. Paul train. As it is now, they don't have enough club dinettes to give Seattle a spare for the Cascades. We have one of our six Cascades Horizon trainsets running without a food service car right now, at least as of yesterday. I'm NPRocky, by the way, a brand new member.Maybe I missed something along the way, but while it appears that it'll be treated between Chicago and Milwaukee like a Hiawatha train, I haven't seen anything indicating that they would use a Hiawatha consist "as-is." Given the run time I'd be shocked if they ran it without at least a café car or equivalent - a roughly 6-8 hour trip would need some sort of food service that could suffice for a meal at minimum, at least if they want it to be successful. Whether that includes business class as well is unknown, though I'd be a bit surprised if they didn't include it given the run time.
I assume you are correct here; it seems like there's not much at all available for cafe cars. Which is really too bad, and people will probably complain if that's the case. But so is life!But I think they're going to have to get some of the Midwest cafe-lounges into service before anything will be available for the second Chicago-St. Paul train.
Welcome!But I think they're going to have to get some of the Midwest cafe-lounges into service before anything will be available for the second Chicago-St. Paul train. As it is now, they don't have enough club dinettes to give Seattle a spare for the Cascades. We have one of our six Cascades Horizon trainsets running without a food service car right now, at least as of yesterday. I'm NPRocky, by the way, a brand new member.
According to Wikipedia, it originally had 10 through-running and 8 stub-end tracks. The area where the stub-end tracks were is now the bus platform area, but there's about 160' between the edge of that and the existing platform track. The current platform and track on either side takes up about 50', so I'd guess they could squeeze in another three platforms and six tracks, if everyone's wildest dreams came true and there was that much service to St. Paul again.Have never visited SPUD. With its present configuration can more tracks and another platform(s) be added. In the past what was its configuration?
I don't recall the past SPUD trackage (* see later comment) but this Google map Link:Have never visited SPUD. With its present configuration can more tracks and another platform(s) be added. In the past what was its configuration?
I've done the same in the past and come to the same conclusion--if they did it well, 6 additional tracks. It's nice that they retained enough space for at least the possibility of expansion.The current platform and track on either side takes up about 50', so I'd guess they could squeeze in another three platforms and six tracks, if everyone's wildest dreams came true and there was that much service to St. Paul again.
1975 - train time in the Minneapolis GN Station at street level.I don't recall the past SPUD trackage (* see later comment) but this Google map Link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9467552,-93.0851925,119m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
shows 3 tracks under the head house - 2 are thru tracks which Amtrak uses
That 3rd dead end track I believe was planned for perhaps some inter city rail SPUD to Target Field ?
That track could be extended to make another thru track.
The real complexity of this is the 60 some freight trains transiting the Division Street WYE just
east of SPUD - zoom out on that map link - BNSF CP CN UP TCW (more*) all cross travel blocking
access to/from SPUD in some way. Some of these freights have 135+ cars and as many as 6 locomotives - - -
It takes what seems forever for this WYE to have clear trackage.
Amtrak #7 is really hampered by this - leaves CUS on time and progresses fairly well thru Wisconsin
stops and up river to the crossing at Hastings then delay set in waiting for clear tracks thru the WYE
to SPUD - thus on an On-Time arrival snatches delay from the jaws of what coulda shoulda been
schedule.
Interesting a brief history in the mid 19th Century there were 2 depots in Minneapolis the Great Northern
located where the Federal Reserve Bank is Hennepin Avenue river crossing and the Milwaukee
3rd and Washington Avenue - The Milwaukee depot building is still there. From these two depots
train travel was possible to just about anywhere in the upper midwest.
In St. Paul the venerable SPUD served for years until the USPS took over the building for a regional
mail distribution sorting center causing Amtrak to move its operation to the Midway depot location.
This location has been brought up time and time again to be used again as a joint operation between
the Twin Cities replacing SPUD Target Field creating one uniform railroad transportation center.
Problem here location location location out in between the cities in a Commercial Rail freight yard.
Zoom map link out and follow the tracks to see this or use this link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9629944,-93.1845059,424m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
That dark rectangular shape building in the center of the link is the old Midway depot.
No hotels - no night entertainment - limited restaurants - a good block walk to the exisitng
Green Line lite rail (in the winter or weather related issues who wants to put up with that !)
SPUD is the answer but future trains traveling north to say Duluth need to stop in or near
downtown Minneapolis and perhaps have good connections to the MSP airport ?
There is plenty of room for Amtrak trains 7 & 8 and the 7X? & 8X? second Chicago train.
The 7X? & 8X? could easily start in Minneapolis
The trips to Duluth (I heard as many a 4 daily?) can certainly be fitted into a schedule - - -
What do the airlines do with a limited number of gates to work with ? Think about it !
As for private trains these too can be fitted into the/a schedule.
* Comment:
Walking the great hall at SPUD there must have been perhaps 8 tracks - some where
thru tracks 3 or 4 ?
Some of these must have been back ended to exit the way they arrived
to go the Midway subdivision route to Minneapolis and other points !
I remember of a Cub Scout outing going from the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis
via the Short Line to the SPUD in St. Paul and returning to the Great Northern depot via the Midway SD.
But I think they're going to have to get some of the Midwest cafe-lounges into service before anything will be available for the second Chicago-St. Paul train. As it is now, they don't have enough club dinettes to give Seattle a spare for the Cascades. We have one of our six Cascades Horizon trainsets running without a food service car right now, at least as of yesterday. I'm NPRocky, by the way, a brand new member.
WWW..... Sir. your LAST sentence caught my attention! I also was in Scouts and took the same trip (Msp to Stp). Must have been in 1965 0r 66. Don't remember much of the train ride (my 1st) due to being "dazzled" about riding a real train (had my own 027 train set). If I am correct, the St. Paul station had a room (somewhere in that gigantic station) that featured a a very large model train layout that our tour-guide (or someone) operated for us young boys. Maybe HO scale of the St.Paul area. Thought it was REALLY "cool".I remember of a Cub Scout outing going from the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis
via the Short Line to the SPUD in St. Paul and returning to the Great Northern depot via the Midway SD.
Then again, the two track Brightline Orlando International Airport station handles 32 trains a day.And if is expansion is ever needed, operationally? Well, that does represent my wildest rail dreams for passenger rail in Minnesota. Then again, Raleigh Union Station here in NC makes do with "only" 2 tracks to serve 12 trains a day, or 8 more than SPUD will serve even with the TCMC running, so unless train storage became an issue I don't see it happening for a long while. But a man can dream!
Enter your email address to join: