Amtrak Dining and Cafe Service discussion 2024 H1

From January 1, 2024 forward, please post comments discussing Amtrak dining and cafe service here. For previous posts regarding Amtrak dining and cafe service, please refer to this thread, which is currently locked:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-dining-and-cafe-service-2023-h2.85478/page-15

I rode the Silver Meteor #98 that departed on Dec 31. Uneven service, to say the least. Boarded in Miami, breakfast had no eggs - no omelette or scrambled. Lunch was full, dinner had no steak. This morning, breakfast had scrambled eggs, but no omelette.

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

Barciur said:

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

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I rode the Meteor and Star in October. One LSA insisted on seating passengers together regardless of the number of diners in the dining car. The other LSA permitted passengers to sit wherever they chose to sit - even one to a table. I think the general policy (post pandemic) is to fill the tables. It is more efficient for the crew. It seems more passengers are opting to eat in their rooms.

Barciur said:

I rode the Silver Meteor #98 that departed on Dec 31. Uneven service, to say the least. Boarded in Miami, breakfast had no eggs - no omelette or scrambled. Lunch was full, dinner had no steak. This morning, breakfast had scrambled eggs, but no omelette.

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

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That could have been a supply issue, which would make sense during the Holidays. If a low number of eggs were provided then offering no eggs on the first day and not offering omelets (which I believe use 3 eggs vs. 2 for the scrambled) may have been a creative way to try to make the best of it. That's not an excuse, of course, just a possible explanation.

And yes, as far as I know, it is Amtrak's policy to seat guests together regardless of how full the diner is but some LSA's do not follow that rule and let passengers spread out when it makes sense. I've seen this same policy on Alaska Railroad, VIA, and Iowa Pacific Pullman - only the Pacific Parlour Car made it a policy to seat parties at private tables. (Still sad to see it gone).

pennyk said:

It seems more passengers are opting to eat in their rooms.

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During our trip last summer on Southwest Chief No. 3 and No. 4 we opted to have all our meals delivered to us in our bedroom. Our bedroom already had a copy of the menu and our SCAs already had the printed forms which the dining car servers use to take orders. (Most of the tips we would normally have left our servers ended up on the tip we gave our SCAs.)

Barciur said:

I rode the Silver Meteor #98 that departed on Dec 31. Uneven service, to say the least. Boarded in Miami, breakfast had no eggs - no omelette or scrambled. Lunch was full, dinner had no steak. This morning, breakfast had scrambled eggs, but no omelette.

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

Click to expand...

When I rode the Meteor round trip between Philadelphia and Florida early last month I didn't have a single meal with anyone else. I'm fact, dinner out of Philly I was the only one in the diner.

I did not even realize that we could have meals in our room. Does ithis also apply to roomettes?

Aarem said:

I did not even realize that we could have meals in our room. Does ithis also apply to roomettes?

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Yes.

If you are a solo traveler and the dining car is relatively empty, many times the attendant will sit four to a table. I’ve seen this happen when the dining car opens for breakfast at 6:30. Makes no sense. Every train is different. I was on the Zephyr last month and we could pick our own table. I prefer having one person across from me, when traveling alone.

On the Texas Eagle/SSL (IL to AZ) the tables each had a couple (or one party of 3 or 4 occasionally); perhaps Covid was not far enough in the past when we traveled in March 2022. But prior to Covid we've also been seated with another couple when the diner was virtually empty. At first, I was taken aback, but the couple was delightful, and we had great conversation.

I don't have enough experience with dining cars pre-Amtrak to know if sharing of tables even when the diner is almost empty was always the case. I do remember taking the National Limited with a friend out of NYC in 1975-1976 time frame there was just the 2 of us and an older lady in the dining car and they seated us all at one table. (We were only going to Paoli and Lancaster respectively but specifically took the NL so we could try out the diner.)

Sidney said:

If you are a solo traveler and the dining car is relatively empty, many times the attendant will sit four to a table. I’ve seen this happen when the dining car opens for breakfast at 6:30. Makes no sense. Every train is different. I was on the Zephyr last month and we could pick our own table. I prefer having one person across from me, when traveling alone.

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I agree with this - I don't mind sharing a table but would prefer to not have a stranger sitting next to me in a booth.

crescent-zephyr said:

I agree with this - I don't mind sharing a table but would prefer to not have a stranger sitting next to me in a booth.

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After heightened awareness about viruses, I would rather not share tables across with strangers to reduce chances of acquiring things.

From pre-Amtrak years I don't recall diners ever having few people dining, both because having room service was unusual (mainly for handicapped, very elderly or maybe someone with a cough or perhaps contagious) but of course coach passengers always were welcome (some trains were all first-class or all coach). Trains without diners (as when we went from Omaha to Billings, MT) had meal stops (such as at Gilette, WY where down the street my mother had the best burger of her life) although, e.g., Brookings, SD had "The Depot lunch" and the Harvey service before my time was famous along the Santa Fe. Except for a train with only one or maybe two Pullmans, lounge space was considered a necessity (such as in a 6-bedroom lounge car).

Barciur said:

I rode the Silver Meteor #98 that departed on Dec 31. Uneven service, to say the least. Boarded in Miami, breakfast had no eggs - no omelette or scrambled. Lunch was full, dinner had no steak. This morning, breakfast had scrambled eggs, but no omelette.

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

Click to expand...

It starts at the top and is reinforced by a standard manual of service. "The menu must be honored" is a long-time tradition worth holding Amtrak's feet to the fire until they get it right. Also, the menu needs to be regionalized and changed more frequently. At the prices being charged Sleeping Car passengers, the food service is a total disasster.

jpakala said:

From pre-Amtrak years I don't recall diners ever having few people dining, both because having room service was unusual (mainly for handicapped, very elderly or maybe someone with a cough or perhaps contagious) but of course coach passengers always were welcome (some trains were all first-class or all coach). Trains without diners (as when we went from Omaha to Billings, MT) had meal stops (such as at Gilette, WY where down the street my mother had the best burger of her life) although, e.g., Brookings, SD had "The Depot lunch" and the Harvey service before my time was famous along the Santa Fe. Except for a train with only one or maybe two Pullmans, lounge space was considered a necessity (such as in a 6-bedroom lounge car).

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The late Curt Voight, Steward on the Super Chief, once told me they were able to serve about 350 for dinner decades ago. Nothing ran out, the crews were exhausted, but the passengers were happy. Amtrak, please copy.

When I was on the Builder, the Lake Shore, and the Silvers in '22 I mostly ate alone in the diner and felt no pressure to do otherwise. I enjoy meeting people but solitary has its attractions too.

On the Empire Builder last November, they were doing community seating with the diner being half to two-thirds full. That was fine with me, as I enjoyed the mealtime conversations. On the Capitol Limited, I had a table to myself. I think with the flex meals, more people choose to eat in their rooms. The Canadian was totally community seating.

MARC Rider said:

On the Empire Builder last November, they were doing community seating with the diner being half to two-thirds full. That was fine with me, as I enjoyed the mealtime conversations. On the Capitol Limited, I had a table to myself. I think with the flex meals, more people choose to eat in their rooms. The Canadian was totally community seating.

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Even with Traditional returned, the dining cars on the Silvers are rarely full except for breakfast. Most times I've been given my own table, and many times there's been only 1 or 2 other tables occupied. I've only shared a couple of times. (Of course, the Silver diners are still serving just 2 sleepers; things will change if and when they ever open them to coach.)

Is there a difference between Flex Dining and in-diner dining, beyond the fact that Flex is in the room(ette) and the other one is in the dining car? Also, what is the deal with water? The last time I took (EB from SEA to Minneapolis), they gave us a tiny bottle at the beginning of the trip and never mentioned it again. Of course, we were totally inexperienced and unaware of food being included in the cost so we brought our own food and water for the entire trip. We have taken trains all over the world, sometimes as in Romania with interesting tales, but lot less in the US. We did the CZ from OSC to DEN and back in 2019, but were quite disappointed in the service. So, I am not sure what to expect.

Aarem said:

Is there a difference between Flex Dining and in-diner dining, beyond the fact that Flex is in the room(ette) and the other one is in the dining car? Also, what is the deal with water? The last time I took (EB from SEA to Minneapolis), they gave us a tiny bottle at the beginning of the trip and never mentioned it again. Of course, we were totally inexperienced and unaware of food being included in the cost so we brought our own food and water for the entire trip. We have taken trains all over the world, sometimes as in Romania with interesting tales, but lot less in the US. We did the CZ from OSC to DEN and back in 2019, but were quite disappointed in the service. So, I am not sure what to expect.

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The food served in-room is exactly the same as the food served in the dining car, in my experience. You won't have an attendant occasionally refilling your coffee or tea in your room, or coming by to take away empty plates, but it is the same food and food choices.

Flex Dining (still on some trains, thankfully being replaced by traditional dining) was a cost-cutting measure disguised as modernization and consumer friendliness (which it most definitely was NOT.) It has gone through many iterations, and the current one is slightly less awful. It consisted of pre-made, reheated meals with deadly levels of sugar and salt and enormous amounts of non-recyclable plastic packaging. When you ate it in your room, you had to deal with lots of trash, with no where to put, especially with two people. There was way too much to fit in the tiny but usually adequate trash bin in a roomette, and you had to unpackage it all and get rid of the packaging just to eat. The meals themselves were like budget airline meals without the ambience. The "Flex" name came from the fact that as part of the program, you didn't need to make a dinner reservation, but could eat whenever you wanted to (during meal hours). If you ate in the dining car, it was pretty much self-service: you would collect the packaged meal from the counter and sit anywhere you could find a vacant seat (or carry it back to your room if there were no available seats.) If you ordered from your SCA, they would deliver the same Flex meal to your room, approximately at the time you requested, if they remembered to do so.

Usually there is bottled water at the coffee station (sometimes hidden in a cupboard.) Most SCAs will deliver you more water on request. The better ones will occasionally make announcements about the availability of drinks (usually coffee, tea and sometimes juice in the morning) and some will even visit you and ask if you need water or anything else. Others will just ignore you for the trip. (I got a really good SCA on my first sleeper trip who explained everything!)

I think sleeper passengers are also supposed to be able to get coffee, tea and soft drinks and ice whenever they want from the diner (when it is serving) or the cafe at other times, but some crews don't do this or don't tell you about it.

I think back around 2013 or so, Amtrak issued a mandate that sleeping car passengers would be entitled to two bottles of water per passenger per day. Maybe it was unlimited before that. This was about the same time as I recall that Amtrak decided to limit the variety of Paul Newman salad dressings in the dining cars from about 8 varieties to 3 or 4 as a cost savings measure. The variety of juice available in the sleeping cars was also reduced at this time.

I don't recall ever seeing the two bottle limit enforced. Usually when I board I find two bottles of water on the seats or by the window in the room. Often there is an extra case or two of water in the downstairs luggage storage area and passengers seem to be free to take extras if needed.

At times I have looked under the seats in a roomette and have found extra bottles of water there which seems to be an indication that the car cleaning could be improved.

Barciur said:

I rode the Silver Meteor #98 that departed on Dec 31. Uneven service, to say the least. Boarded in Miami, breakfast had no eggs - no omelette or scrambled. Lunch was full, dinner had no steak. This morning, breakfast had scrambled eggs, but no omelette.

Out of curiosity - is it standard that people are seated together even if there is nobody else in the car? We had a 7PM reservation and were the only two there for dinner. Another couple came in and they were told to sit with us. They didn't want to, the guy almost yelled "WHY THERE IS NOBODY HERE" and made a fuss about it, but the attendant stated that it is Amtrak policy to seat people together even if there is nobody else. Is that true or was that his policy?

Click to expand...

crescent-zephyr said:

That could have been a supply issue, which would make sense during the Holidays. If a low number of eggs were provided then offering no eggs on the first day and not offering omelets (which I believe use 3 eggs vs. 2 for the scrambled) may have been a creative way to try to make the best of it. That's not an excuse, of course, just a possible explanation.

And yes, as far as I know, it is Amtrak's policy to seat guests together regardless of how full the diner is but some LSA's do not follow that rule and let passengers spread out when it makes sense. I've seen this same policy on Alaska Railroad, VIA, and Iowa Pacific Pullman - only the Pacific Parlour Car made it a policy to seat parties at private tables. (Still sad to see it gone).

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Sorry to jump behind here, but Amtrak's service standards manual specifically mentions that communal seating is optional. There are several pages in the service standards manual (which is publically accessible through FOIA) that outline these policies.

Specially, it says (when taking reservations)

Ask if they’re interested/comfortable sitting with another party.

• If yes, indicate communal dining by putting “C” next to their reservation on the reservation listing.​

• If no, hand them a reservation card for their seating.​

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So "officially" it is not required. However, in practice, the LSAs typically do whatever they feel is best. and to be fair, I have never had an LSA ask this question to me when they have done their rounds making dinner reservations.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...-service-standards-manual-121123-redacted.pdf(page 194)

John Santos said:

The food served in-room is exactly the same as the food served in the dining car, in my experience. You won't have an attendant occasionally refilling your coffee or tea in your room, or coming by to take away empty plates, but it is the same food and food choices.

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Thanks, I did not realize that Flex Dining was something else. Btw, what happens to the empty plates after they are done? Do we drop it off some place ourselves? Or keep them till the next meal? And I presume we make the in-room or cafe dining choice when the attendant comes to take orders.

John Santos said:

Flex Dining (still on some trains, thankfully being replaced by traditional dining) was a cost-cutting measure disguised as modernization and consumer friendliness (which it most definitely was NOT.) It has gone through many iterations, and the current one is slightly less awful. It consisted of pre-made, reheated meals with deadly levels of sugar and salt and enormous amounts of non-recyclable plastic packaging. When you ate it in your room, you had to deal with lots of trash, with no where to put, especially with two people. There was way too much to fit in the tiny but usually adequate trash bin in a roomette, and you had to unpackage it all and get rid of the packaging just to eat. The meals themselves were like budget airline meals without the ambience. The "Flex" name came from the fact that as part of the program, you didn't need to make a dinner reservation, but could eat whenever you wanted to (during meal hours). If you ate in the dining car, it was pretty much self-service: you would collect the packaged meal from the counter and sit anywhere you could find a vacant seat (or carry it back to your room if there were no available seats.) If you ordered from your SCA, they would deliver the same Flex meal to your room, approximately at the time you requested, if they remembered to do so.

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OK, so not appetizing at all. Thanks for the description.

John Santos said:

Usually there is bottled water at the coffee station (sometimes hidden in a cupboard.) Most SCAs will deliver you more water on request. The better ones will occasionally make announcements about the availability of drinks (usually coffee, tea and sometimes juice in the morning) and some will even visit you and ask if you need water or anything else. Others will just ignore you for the trip. (I got a really good SCA on my first sleeper trip who explained everything!)

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I see, thanks for the explanation.

John Santos said:

I think sleeper passengers are also supposed to be able to get coffee, tea and soft drinks and ice whenever they want from the diner (when it is serving) or the cafe at other times, but some crews don't do this or don't tell you about it.

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I see, thanks for this tip!

Not sure how recent of a change this is, but I know since Covid, coach passengers were not able to eat in the dining car. On the CS yesterday, coach passengers were able to make dining car reservations and several in my car did so. I had brought my food, so didn’t make a reservation myself. Prices were breakfast $20, lunch $25, and dinner $45