Borealis - Onboard & Hating It!

Took two young teen grandkids from Chicago to MSP for the weekend on the Empire Builder. We bought roomettes because I wanted them to experience different aspects of train travel (this is a first for them) and they were hooked with the comfort, dining car and observation deck. Arrived 15 minutes late, but not a problem for anyone but the Lyft driver I had pre-scheduled.

So, for the return trip, I decided to do coach seats to show them how even the low end of the spectrum was still so much better than air travel. Amtrak did a bait-and-switch with my seats, moving us to the Borealis. I didn’t care, because Amtrak assures us that ALL of their coach seats are spacious, with footrests (important to me, because my ankles swell).

I’m onboard Borealis right now, and I’m so disappointed! This should only be a short term commuter train. Narrow seats, poor leg room, NO leg rests, and the inadequate lumbar support disappears when reclined. There’s no observation car, no dining car - this might as well be a plane for all of the lack of comfort. Shame on Amtrak for this travesty!

How/why did Amtrak "move you" to the Borealis? I've never heard of anyone being "moved" to the Borealis from the Empire Builder; that sounds very odd and I'm wondering if others can chime in. I am sorry to hear that you aren't enjoying the Borealis. I'd recommend sitting in the cafe car and enjoying the tables if you can--a change of pace if nothing else! The seats are definitely not the same as the Superliner coach seats, which were created with long-distance travel in mind. I can see how the Borealis would be a shock coming from a 'premier' Amtrak long-distance service like the Empire Builder. It is definitely disappointing when expectations are not met, and the Horizon coaches are very old and not the picture of modern comfort. I also wish that Horizon and Amfleet coaches had more leg space, like the long-distance coaches.

With that said, it's not really fair to compare the Empire Builder to the Borealis, which is a mid-distance/corridor train. The attributes you mention (sightseer lounge, or the "observation" car, dining car) are not part of *any* short to middle-distance train in Amtrak's network. Not specific to the Borealis. The seats on the Borealis, while surely not Superliner seats, are at least a tish wider than most airline seats these days, and certainly have more padding, and probably more reclining ability as well. I can't say that the legroom is amazing, but I've had worse legroom on a plane than on corridor Amtrak services.

I looked, and Amtrak does not promise that *all* coach seats have footrests. It's not on the Borealis page, and not on the page about general coach class seating. That's not a fair criticism. Now, they do promise "ample legroom," and yes, there is less on the Borealis than the Builder, and I also wish there was more.

Despite being a relatively tall person, I've never felt as or more uncomfortable on an Amtrak corridor/mid-distance train than on an airplane, and I am sorry to hear that you feel it "might as well be a plane." To each their own, but please try to consider the context of the Borealis and how different of a train it is from the Empire Builder.

judithackerson said:

I’m onboard Borealis right now, and I’m so disappointed! This should only be a short term commuter train. Narrow seats, poor leg room, NO leg rests, and the inadequate lumbar support disappears when reclined. There’s no observation car, no dining car - this might as well be a plane for all of the lack of comfort. Shame on Amtrak for this travesty!

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Be sure to call Amtrak Customer Relations and bring this to their attention. Provide as much information as you can including the date when you made your reservations, the date you traveled, the Borealis features you found unacceptable, etc. (You might just receive a voucher good for future travel.) Unless Amtrak is made aware of its shortfalls, it will not be able to correct them. And be sure to CALL and not write or send an e-mail.

Eric in East County said:

(You might just receive a voucher good for future travel.)

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Wouldn't this only happen if they were actually moved from the EB to the Borealis (which I haven't ever heard of happening)?

judithackerson said:

Amtrak did a bait-and-switch with my seats, moving us to the Borealis.

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Today's eastbound Empire Builder departed St Paul 6 1/2 hours late.

Had you phoned Amtrak or consulted a ticket agent in St Paul, and let them know you preferred the 3 p.m. Empire Builder (arriving into Chicago around 11:30 p.m.), they likely would have accommodated you.

It seem unfairly harsh to accuse "bait and switch" to what might be a reasonable and appreciated change for most passengers due to the delay.

judithackerson said:

There’s no observation car, no dining car - this might as well be a plane for all of the lack of comfort. Shame on Amtrak for this travesty!

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Amtrak operates Borealis for the states of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois. Those states collectively define the services provided on the train, and pay Amtrak a subsidy to operate the service.

If you feel that Borealis should include a dining car, observation car, footrests, etc., then contact your state legislators and have your state pay Amtrak to provide the additional onboard services...or to purchase better state-owned equipment directly for Amtrak to operate.

It's true that the "corridor coach" in the Horizons used by the Borealis are a step down from the long-distance Superliner coaches used on the Empire Builder. However, for a 7-hour trip, the Horizon seats are perfectly fine. There is certainly more room than any airline coach seat, and no middle seat, either.

I've done a similar trip on the NEC between Baltimore and Boston and had no problem. If one really wants extra legroom, it is possible to book business class, which gives one a lot more legroom (and I think the Borealis has 2x1 club seating) and curtains over the windows. If there's really a lot of people traveling the whole 7 hour trip, Amtrak might want to consider converting the seating in one of the Horizon coaches to Amfleet-2 long-distance seating, which would make it similar to what they have on the Maple Leaf and the Pennsylvanian. It might be nice to have a dining car, but that's a fantasy, and, even if one took the Empire Builder, access to the dining car for coach passengers is limited.

I guess if one is not a frequent traveller, and having experienced the E.B. in sleeper, one might not realise the Borealis is a different class of train? Because we don't know how the "change to Borealis train" occurred, it is tricky to comment further.

MARC Rider said:

It's true that the "corridor coach" in the Horizons used by the Borealis are a step down from the long-distance Superliner coaches used on the Empire Builder. However, for a 7-hour trip, the Horizon seats are perfectly fine. There is certainly more room than any airline coach seat, and no middle seat, either.

I've done a similar trip on the NEC between Baltimore and Boston and had no problem. If one really wants extra legroom, it is possible to book business class, which gives one a lot more legroom (and I think the Borealis has 2x1 club seating) and curtains over the windows. If there's really a lot of people traveling the whole 7 hour trip, Amtrak might want to consider converting the seating in one of the Horizon coaches to Amfleet-2 long-distance seating, which would make it similar to what they have on the Maple Leaf and the Pennsylvanian. It might be nice to have a dining car, but that's a fantasy, and, even if one took the Empire Builder, access to the dining car for coach passengers is limited.

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Maybe if Amtrak involuntarily moves somebody from a LD train to a corridor train, they should place them in business class as a closer equivalent.

MARC Rider said:

... there's really a lot of people traveling the whole 7 hour trip, Amtrak might want to consider converting the seating in one of the Horizon coaches to Amfleet-2 long-distance seating, which would make it similar to what they have on the Maple Leaf and the Pennsylvanian.

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I'm hoping that an additional car with at least another 15 business class seats can find its way into the Borealis consists before the Cascades get their Ventures in service. Not sure exactly what's available, but there sure seems to be demand on that route.