Which US airlines do you recommend for domestic service?

Tlcooper44 said:

But this sort of situation isn’t exactly unique to United - it can happen with any airline.

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I've already stated that United's premium coach (Economy Plus) product remains worst-in-class with no benefits beyond pitch, but here are some additional factors that seem unique to United, at least among the various airlines I've flown over the years.

Back when I first signed up for airline points programs your name did not have to match your documents exactly. When that rule changed every other airline let me modify the common short version of my first name to the full legal version without issue. United alone refused to allow this and told me to submit an official change of name or marriage document showing both my previous and changed names. I calmly explained the problem with this demand and they responded by adding SSSS to my active reservations. I honestly have no words for the way United manages to turn what should be a minor inconvenience into a major recurring headache.

United still holds the record for worst food I've been served on any plane, bus, boat, train, you name it.



United's soft service for intrastate Texas flights is basically water on request while the other airlines still run a full drink service.

The international connecting service at UA's TX hub is so annoying and tedious that I end up driving to/from IAH instead.

For me the last straw was how United handled the David Dao incident. The event itself was pretty bad but what really turned me away was how United's top brass attempted to control the narrative by initially praising their staff and blaming everything on their paying customer.

Recap of events: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/trav...ight-lawsuit-family-attorney-speak/index.html

Tlcooper44 said:

Moreover, I’ve never had an issue with my violin on United.

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There's a Harvard Business School study on the fallout of United's treatment of Dave Carroll. It's not so much that the guitars were broken, that could happen to any airline, but the way UA chooses to respond to everyday adversity is absurd to me and many others.



Current day article: https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/...s-guitar-15-year-anniversary-music-video.html

DetroitTed said:

I've flown all legacy airlines, and multiple international airlines and while airline "misadventures" can occur on any carrier, I 've only encountered the lying and gross incompetence on United.

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Like you I've flown numerous airlines and while many failed to provide excellent service United seems to excel at providing poor service.

Devil's Advocate said:

I've already stated that United's premium coach (Economy Plus) product remains worst-in-class with no benefits beyond pitch, but here are some additional factors that seem unique to United, at least among the various airlines I've flown over the years.

Back when I first signed up for airline points programs your name did not have to match your documents exactly. When that rule changed every other airline let me modify the common short version of my first name to the full legal version without issue. United alone refused to allow this and told me to submit an official change of name or marriage document showing both my previous and changed names. I calmly explained the problem with this demand and they responded by adding SSSS to all my reservations. I honestly have no words for the way United turns what should be a minor inconvienence into a major headache.

United still holds the record for worst food I've been served on any plane, bus, boat, train, you name it.

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United's entire service for intrastate Texas flights is basically water on request while the other TX airlines run a full drink service.

The international connecting process at UA's TX hub is so annoying and tedious that I end up driving to/from IAH instead.

For me the last straw was how United handled the David Dao incident. The event itself was pretty bad but what really turned me away was how United's top brass tried to control the narrative by praising their staff and blaming everything on their paying customer.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/trav...ight-lawsuit-family-attorney-speak/index.html



There's a Harvard Business School study on the fallout of United's treatment of Dave Carroll. It's not so much that the guitars were broken, that could happen to any airline, but the way UA responds to adversity is just absurd to me and many others.



https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/...s-guitar-15-year-anniversary-music-video.html


I've flown dozens of airlines and while many failed to provide excellent service United alone seems to excel at providing poor service.

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Most of this is still more or less anecdotal. It definitely sucks, but it’s not really evidence to suggest UA is a uniquely bad American legacy carrier. They have other, tangible, non-anecdotal things that make them a uniquely good carrier.

I’ve done a lot of flying, and United always seems to be a decent experience.

Regarding the guitar incident:

Violins and guitars have a lot of differences with regard to flying. They are quite a bit larger than violins, and therefor have trouble fitting in some overhead compartments. Violins are also worth quite a bit more than guitars on average - that is to say nothing other than violinists simply won’t take the flight if we are forced to put our instruments below. It’s a non-negotiable, so this story simply wouldn’t happen to most violinists. I suppose, in a way, I’m sympathetic to UA on this one. If I’m to be blunt and crude, who’s dumb enough to allow their extremely valuable belonging to be checked by an airline? I have nearly disembarked from a plane when I was told I couldn’t bring my violin. Thankfully, the captain intervened and put the case in the coat closet. Nowadays, I carry a copy of the law that allows musicians to carry appropriately sized instruments onboard and store them in overhead compartments. It helps.

In terms of the treatment of Dave - well it’s certainly a uniquely bad situation. I remember when it happened - It occurred well before I began flying the amount I do. Perhaps this helped me because United learned?

Edit:
The doctor dragging incident is one situation that I will concede is uniquely bad and not anecdotal. The way they handled that was unacceptable.

Tlcooper44 said:

Most of this is still more or less anecdotal. It definitely sucks, but it’s not really evidence to suggest UA is a uniquely bad American legacy carrier. They have other, tangible, non-anecdotal things that make them a uniquely good carrier. I’ve done a lot of flying, and United always seems to be a decent experience.

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What are these "non-anecdotal things" that make United a uniquely good carrier? Does buying Asian routes from a bankrupt Pan Am make an airline good? Does selling cheaper business upgrades make an airline good? To me what makes one airline better than another is the standard of service they provide, how they deal with adverse events, and how they treat customers without status.

Tlcooper44 said:

If I’m to be blunt and crude, who’s dumb enough to allow their extremely valuable belonging to be checked by an airline?

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Canadians, apparently. I guess they were not up to speed on what to expect from US service standards. Although to be fair I do my best to avoid Chicago on American also since that city seems to struggle with showing customers respect or kindness. I previously said United was the "Amtrak" of airlines because they share a lot of the same attitudes around customer service. I do not think United is a good airline but that does not mean every UA flight is horrible. Some UA flights are fine and if I lived or traveled somewhere else my experiences might be different, but for people who live where I live and travel where I travel I cannot recommend them.

Devil's Advocate said:

What are these "non-anecdotal things" that make United a uniquely good carrier? Does buying Asian routes from a bankrupt Pan Am make an airline good? Does selling cheaper business upgrades make an airline good? To me what makes one airline better than another is the standard of service they provide, how they deal with adverse events, and how they treat customers without status.

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The only thing I can help with United is the fact that they have been retrofitting their aircraft with IFE screens, bigger overhead bins. They've been known to have really good technology (their app especially), if not the best among the big three. Not necessarily not status, but their Polaris experience (lounges, seat, bedding, amenity kits, -- but not the catering) has been praised quite a bit.

I will say I'm an avgeek but rarely have the opportunity to fly domestic, so these are not my experiences, just what I've heard commonly and seen.

Devil's Advocate said:

What are these "non-anecdotal things" that make United a uniquely good carrier? Does buying Asian routes from a bankrupt Pan Am make an airline good? Does selling cheaper business upgrades make an airline good? To me what makes one airline better than another is the standard of service they provide, how they deal with adverse events, and how they treat customers without status.

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Keep in mind you’re arguing United is uniquely sub-par as a legacy carrier, and I’m arguing that they’re all about the same, but especially in economy.

Reasonably, one can value different things in an airline. You speak as if what you value (while simultaneously brushing off what you seemingly assume I might value) should matter most to everyone.

Well, in my opinion, where an airline flies may be the single most important aspect of their product. So yeah, buying routes from a bankrupt Pan Am does make them a good airline - especially to anyone who flies from America to Asia with any sort of regularity. They serve more Asian destinations than any other American carrier.

Having an attainable business class, as well as low level status, is also valuable in my opinion - but again, I’m not the one claiming anything here other than the big 3 being more or less the same.

Devil's Advocate said:

Canadians, apparently. I guess they were not up to speed on what to expect from US service standards.

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Nope - no matter what airline, or airport worldwide, you should never put a valuable instrument down below. I’d laugh at trusting air Canada with an instrument.

PS - I much prefer United’s food to American’s. Delta is a step up in my opinion.

Tlcooper44 said:

Keep in mind you’re arguing United is uniquely sub-par as a legacy carrier, and I’m arguing that they’re all about the same, but especially in economy. Reasonably, one can value different things in an airline. You speak as if what you value (while simultaneously brushing off what you seemingly assume I might value) should matter most to everyone.

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Here's what people who responded to JD Power think of United's Basic and Premium Economy.

The North America Airline Satisfaction Study was redesigned for 2024. It measures passenger satisfaction with airline carriers in North America based on performance in seven core dimensions on a poor-to-perfect 6-point rating scale. Individual dimensions measured are (in alphabetical order): airline staff; digital tools; ease of travel; level of trust; on-board experience; pre/post-flight experience; and value for price paid.

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Link: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-north-america-airline-satisfaction-study

Tlcooper44 said:

Well, in my opinion, where an airline flies may be the single most important aspect of their product. So yeah, buying routes from a bankrupt Pan Am does make them a good airline - especially to anyone who flies from America to Asia with any sort of regularity. They serve more Asian destinations than any other American carrier.

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By that logic Ticketmaster would be the best booking experience that ever existed because they are absolutely everywhere, but that's a rare view to hold.

Tlcooper44 said:

Having an attainable business class, as well as low level status, is also valuable in my opinion - but again, I’m not the one claiming anything here other than the big 3 being more or less the same.

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Except you repeatedly waive away the lived experiences of others as anecdotal hearsay so I guess it's just a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Devil's Advocate said:

By that logic Ticketmaster would be the best booking experience that ever existed because they are absolutely everywhere, but that's a rare view to hold.

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That’s a dubious comparison to say the least - even you’ll have to admit that if you think about it for a little bit.

Interesting survey metrics however. Thanks for sharing.

Devil's Advocate said:

Except you repeatedly waive away the lived experiences of others as anecdotal hearsay so I guess it's just a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

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Nope - just your experiences

Cal said:

The only thing I can help with United is the fact that they have been retrofitting their aircraft with IFE screens, bigger overhead bins.

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While AVOD made a big difference to me back in the 1990's and early 2000's I rarely use them today. Mostly because the selection seldom includes the content I'm into, is often edited to remove who knows what, is displayed on older screens with wonky ratios, and riddled with advertising. Even the best IFE systems force everyone to stop and wait for every second of PA use, including announcements unrelated to safety like duty free sales repeated in multiple languages. A personal tablet with noise cancelling headphones gives you the content you want the way you want it with no advertising or unwanted interruptions. I know AA gets some flack for lacking seatback IFE on many aircraft but I'm personally unbothered by this tradeoff.

Cal said:

They've been known to have really good technology (their app especially), if not the best among the big three. Not necessarily not status, but their Polaris experience (lounges, seat, bedding, amenity kits, -- but not the catering) has been praised quite a bit.

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US airlines seem to truly excel in tech and app functionality. I feel like all the legacies are pretty good with app and web tech except for maybe Alaska; much better than most foreign airlines in my experience. Polaris is pretty good for an international business class lounge but I'm not much of a lounge geek so that probably means less to me than most people. I do hope you're right and that United is getting better even if I avoid them these days. Quality competition is good and sometimes United is the only practical option available.

Tlcooper44 said:

I have nearly disembarked from a plane when I was told I couldn’t bring my violin. Thankfully, the captain intervened and put the case in the coat closet. Nowadays, I carry a copy of the law that allows musicians to carry appropriately sized instruments onboard and store them in overhead compartments. It helps.

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But the law and regulations probably draw the line at the viola.

(For non-musicians: viola jokes are a genre of musical jokes, directed at the hapless instrument and its subtalented players. And yes, that's a viola case in my profile photo, why do you ask?)

https://www.mit.edu/~jcb/viola-jokes.html

I am well aware of the good advice about not expecting Amtrak LD to be on time, and not to book short connecting times for important trips.

I am wondering about my flight back to Ireland the third week in September.

I don't really know what to expect from the US weather in September, and I don't know what to expect from the airlines, and I fully realise that in the last analysis, good luck plays a big part.

While it is common sense to spend the previous night in Boston, before my 3pm flight homeward, I am wondering about booking a flight to arrive into Boston airport mid morning on the same day? Is this a sensible thing to consider, or completely daft?

caravanman said:

While it is common sense to spend the previous night in Boston, before my 3pm flight homeward, I am wondering about booking a flight to arrive into Boston airport mid morning on the same day? Is this a sensible thing to consider, or completely daft?

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That can be hurricane season along the Eastern seaboard, although severe weather seldom reaches as far north as Boston. That said, I would have confidence booking a same-day connection in Boston as long as both the arriving flight and your homeward one are with the same airline or their partners, booked on the same ticket. This is fairly easy to do - even as an add-on if you've already booked the latter. That way you are protected from misconnecting - the level of which will depend on the cause of the misconnect. If weather you should at least receive rebooking assistance and discounted hotel accommodation as a "distressed passenger"; if the airline's fault you should expect more - up to complimentary accommodation and potential rebooking on another airline. Obviously severe weather would affect all airlines and not every passenger will be well-treated in that situation.

Here in Santa Rosa, I'm looking forward to taking Avelo Airlines. For us, a new guy on the block. On the west coast, Avelo is based in LA and Santa Rosa (Sonoma County).

https://is.gd/qVuofh

Santa Rosa to Redmond (Bend) Oregon would be a great way to get to recreational spots in northern Oregon.

caravanman said:

While it is common sense to spend the previous night in Boston, before my 3pm flight homeward, I am wondering about booking a flight to arrive into Boston airport mid morning on the same day? Is this a sensible thing to consider, or completely daft?

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I'm unfamiliar with BOS and I'm unsure which airlines you're considering so I'd say there's not enough information to answer that.

Most travel plans work just fine as long as a bit of leeway is factored in making connections be they continuing airline or some other sort of surface rail bus network.

Now that recently 'CROWD-STRIKE" issue is like the armageddon of air travel bringing even the best airlines to knees. Best just pack it in and come back to fly again another day hoping for the best resolution waivers and compensation. Sure that is easy for me to write about it *** but what other options do you have to work with ?
You are away from home (base) perhaps in a foreign country - toughing it out is really going to be tough !
It is in the middle of the summer travel season and there is not any room room for rerouting relocation the huddled masses of inconvenienced folks to their destination as originally scheduled.
Then too the airlines have internal problems of a major order - crews and the airplanes they fly - timed out

Of course this is something out of the ordinary - happens maybe a few times in the hundred plus years of aviation history - you can't plan for this.
But you can think of it happening and what you possibly can do to help yourself make the best of it.

caravanman said:

I am well aware of the good advice about not expecting Amtrak LD to be on time, and not to book short connecting times for important trips.

I am wondering about my flight back to Ireland the third week in September.

I don't really know what to expect from the US weather in September, and I don't know what to expect from the airlines, and I fully realise that in the last analysis, good luck plays a big part.

While it is common sense to spend the previous night in Boston, before my 3pm flight homeward, I am wondering about booking a flight to arrive into Boston airport mid morning on the same day? Is this a sensible thing to consider, or completely daft?

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Unless you are booking your flights as through flights with the connection guaranteed I would not recommend this. You could run into numerous problems causing you to miss your flight home leaving you stuck in Boston and needing to buy a new ticket for a flight home.

Imagine planning an extra day so you don't have to worry about missing a connection and then crowdstrike happens on the next day! You can never predict the future and you just have to take everything as it comes. I've gotten pretty lucky over the years, I've definitely cut it close too many times and had to speed walk to planes, trains, cruise ships and buses but hey - that's part of the fun!

Planning an extra day for fear of missed connection isn’t advisable really ever… if it’s an extra day, it’s no longer a connection. It’s a separate flight. If you want to see the city, that’s a different story.

Weather in September is good in Boston - if there are storms, they don’t even last the whole day. There will be pockets where flight can take off just fine.

Just try to make your connection and if you miss it, allow the airline to rebook you - likely same day. Pretty sure there’s a flight to your destination later on.

crescent-zephyr said:

I've gotten pretty lucky over the years, I've definitely cut it close too many times and had to speed walk to planes, trains, cruise ships and buses but hey - that's part of the fun!

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In college, I once arrived at KCLE 20 minutes before my flight - I decided to grab a sandwich and board the half full flight 5 minutes before they closed the door.

crescent-zephyr said:

You can never predict the future and you just have to take everything as it comes. I've gotten pretty lucky over the years, I've definitely cut it close too many times and had to speed walk to planes, trains, cruise ships and buses but hey - that's part of the fun!

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It's part of the fun if you're tight on time with money to spare. If you have plenty of time but live on a fixed income it seems reckless.

Tlcooper44 said:

In college, I once arrived at KCLE 20 minutes before my flight - I decided to grab a sandwich and board the half full flight 5 minutes before they closed the door.

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I used to park my car 30 minutes before boarding in the late 1990's, but I'm not dense enough to think that's going to work today.

Devil's Advocate said:

It's part of the fun if you're tight on time with money to spare. If you have plenty of time but live on a fixed income it seems reckless.


I used to park my car 30 minutes before boarding in the late 1990's, but I'm not dense enough to think that's going to work today.

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Nor am I dense enough to behave the way I did in college with regard to this.

But, I really don’t like any extra time in airports. Now that we have online check-in and security wait-time apps, the need to arrive earlier than necessary has gone away.

At Logan, I’ve gotten to know the various wait times at terminals and airlines well enough to time things correctly. For unfamiliar airports, it’s obviously a different story.

Tlcooper44 said:

Planning an extra day for fear of missed connection isn’t advisable really ever… if it’s an extra day, it’s no longer a connection. It’s a separate flight. If you want to see the city, that’s a different story.

Weather in September is good in Boston - if there are storms, they don’t even last the whole day. There will be pockets where flight can take off just fine.

Just try to make your connection and if you miss it, allow the airline to rebook you - likely same day. Pretty sure there’s a flight to your destination later on.

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This is excellent advice if booking a through ticket between points A-B-C. It is terrible advice if you are booking separate tickets between points A-B and B-C. If you have a through ticket the airline or alliance is required to get you to your destination or provide you a refund. If you have separate tickets and miss your connecting flight the airline or alliance is not required to help you in any way. They may but it will be entirely at their discretion.

To illustrate my point, if you book a single ticket XXX-BOS-DUB on Delta (with XXX being any US city) and your original flight is delayed Delta is required to get you to your destination or process a refund. If you book a ticket XXX-BOS on JetBlue and then BOS-DUB on Delta, Delta has no obligation to get you to Dublin or refund your money if your JetBlue flight is late and you miss the Delta flight.

Devil's Advocate said:

It's part of the fun if you're tight on time with money to spare. If you have plenty of time but live on a fixed income it seems reckless.

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The line between fun and reckless is often very thin haha. But honestly, the most costly travel issue I've ever had was a winter weather issue that canceled all trains and flights. Amtrak booked me on the next available train, but didn't do anything to accommodate me for the extra 2 days.

Thanks all for your thoughts on same day arrival and departure at BOS airport. I am still "fine tuning" a few elements of my trip, but I will have to make decisions soon, before some current options get fully booked.

One tip when using American: on the website, you can sign up for relevant alerts. Last year American changed one of our departures from 8 am to 6 am and didn't tell us. Our travel agent got an alert a week before our departure and fought with the reservation system so we wouldn't have a rebooking fee to depart on a different flight at our originally scheduled time. Ignorant, irrelevant alerts, however, seem to be automatic. We got one this year pointing out that we had a long layover in Manila, but in reality 3 hours is not long when your flight from Honolulu is half an hour late and you have to go thru immigration and customs, retrieve your baggage, and ride a bus to the domestic terminal miles away.

We are now on our annual trip to the Philippines. Our travel agent scheduled us on two AA flights each way from Philly to Hawaii and two from Hawaii to Mindanao. We used to fly Philly-Qatar-Manila-Mindanao, with 22 hours in the air and possibly 18 hours sitting in terminals. It got too hard (we are both in our 70s), so now we make two overnight stopovers each way, with the only same-day connection being in Manila. We stay in the Philippines 3 weeks instead of the permitted 4 to allow for travel disruptions that might prolong our stay, and we buy trip insurance. If there were a way to get to the Philippines without flying, I would pounce on it, and my wife can't sleep on a train or we would take Amtrak to the West Coast.

Polite staff, and bad compensation, or the opposite?

This clip is meant to be humorous, I think...