Trains from St. Paul to Chicago in 1944

Here's a look at departures from St. Paul to Chicago in October 1944, showing only trains with First Class service on all or part of the trip (sleepers or parlor cars). It gives an idea of the potential travel between those cities.

0815 -- C&NW 508 -- The Viking
0825 -- CB&Q 22 -- The Morning Twin Zephyr
0830 -- MILW 6 -- The Morning Hiawatha
0900 -- MILW 118-18 The Minnesota Marquette
1145 -- MILW 58
1300 -- MILW 100 -- The Afternoon Hiawatha
1445 -- C&NW 400 - Twin Cities "400"
1630 -- CB&Q 24 -- The Afternoon Twin Zephyr
1730 -- RI 561-62-20-6
1835 -- SOO 6-18
1935 -- MILW 122-22 -- The Sioux
2005 -- C&NW 514 -- The Victory
2045 -- CGW 2 -- The Minnesotan
2120 -- MILW 56 -- The Fast Mail
2220 -- CB&Q 48 -- The Black Hawk
2255 -- CB&Q 44 -- The Empire Builder
2300 -- CB&Q 50 -- The North Coast Limited
2320 -- C&NW 406 -- North Western Limited
2330 -- MILW 4 -- The Pioneer Limited
2335 -- MILW 16 -- The Olympian

C&NW 508 and 514 via Madison.
MILW 118-18 and 122-22 via Madison.

Some 20 + trains to Chicago !
In the same day !

WWW said:

Some 20 + trains to Chicago !
In the same day !

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And that is just the ones with First Class service. There were probably a few "milk runs" also.

Classic example of the perfect niche for rail - short to fly, long to drive.

We have to remember that was the middle of WW-2

west point said:

We have to remember that was the middle of WW-2

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Even without the gas rationing due to the war, the percentage of people who owned cars was less than today. Also, there were no freeways paralleling the train route, or anywhere else (except for the original Pennylvania Turnpike between Carlise and Irwin). A d if there was airline service between The Twin Cities and Chicago, it was probably primitive.

MARC Rider said:

Even without the gas rationing due to the war, the percentage of people who owned cars was less than today. Also, there were no freeways paralleling the train route, or anywhere else (except for the original Pennylvania Turnpike between Carlise and Irwin). A d if there was airline service between The Twin Cities and Chicago, it was probably primitive.

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In 1944, Northwest Airlines had the Chicago <> Minneapolis route, with 7 non-stops, 1 one-stop, 2 two-stops, and 1 three-stop. Because of the war traffic, passengers were warned to check in at least ten minutes before departure. "Douglas 21-passenger luxury liners [were] operated on all flights."

I've studied the rail schedules before and after the war and there wasn't much difference on main lines during the war. What was done, besides pushing customers onto secondary trains, was that extra sections were operated.

Willbridge said:

In 1944, Northwest Airlines had the Chicago <> Minneapolis route, with 7 non-stops, 1 one-stop, 2 two-stops, and 1 three-stop. Because of the war traffic, passengers were warned to check in at least ten minutes before departure. "Douglas 21-passenger luxury liners [were] operated on all flights."

I've studied the rail schedules before and after the war and there wasn't much difference on main lines during the war. What was done, besides pushing customers onto secondary trains, was that extra sections were operated.

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11 flights per day at 21 passengers per flight is 230 seats available. A single decent sided train hold twice that amount. Even if the fares were similar, I don't think they were real competition at that point. Wonder what bus service was like back then? In any event, car ownership wasn't close to universal like it is today, and driving long distances was slower and involved driving through the many towns along the way, so al in all, more people were willing to ride trains on this route.

MARC Rider said:

11 flights per day at 21 passengers per flight is 230 seats available. A single decent sided train hold twice that amount. Even if the fares were similar, I don't think they were real competition at that point. Wonder what bus service was like back then? In any event, car ownership wasn't close to universal like it is today, and driving long distances was slower and involved driving through the many towns along the way, so al in all, more people were willing to ride trains on this route.

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Buses would still have to rely on county and state roads as the interstate highways weren’t built yet. So service would be slower than a through car and substantially slower than the train.

Willbridge said:

In 1944, Northwest Airlines had the Chicago <> Minneapolis route, with 7 non-stops, 1 one-stop, 2 two-stops, and 1 three-stop. Because of the war traffic, passengers were warned to check in at least ten minutes before departure. "Douglas 21-passenger luxury liners [were] operated on all flights."

I've studied the rail schedules before and after the war and there wasn't much difference on main lines during the war. What was done, besides pushing customers onto secondary trains, was that extra sections were operated.

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And Military and Governmemt travelers were given priority on all forms of transportation.

There's a famous WWII story that when Chief of Staff General Marshall called General Eisenhower to DC from San Antonio for duty, Ike had to take a Train since his priority wasn't high enough to fly on Commercial or Military Planes!

MARC Rider said:

Wonder what bus service was like back then?

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Here’s a look just a few years after the war, from the Russell’s Guide, shown in Timetable World…
https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=0714038a-8747-4132-b707-f9514170a5d7

Scroll to Table 438 and enlarge…

Bonser said:

Buses would still have to rely on county and state roads as the interstate highways weren’t built yet. So service would be slower than a through car and substantially slower than the train.

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When my mother (who was 9) and her parents drove from Minneapolis to Chicago for the 1933 World's Fair, the roads were slow enough that they had to spend a night along the way. Had to borrow a car to go, too.

I remember that besides narrow two-lane roads (bridges were especially narrow) with minimal shoulders if any (my Dad deemed 48 mph a good speed in the early 1950s), and town after town (Mom would say from the map what we were coming to next), there was the problem of flats (remember inner tubes?) and overheated engines, etc. (of course no air conditioning). Flying cost a lot and was bouncy (even today there are still bags to throw up in). Occasional crashed planes also scared off some folks.

Well, this almost fits under the 1944 heading -- I'm looking at St. Paul listings in a November 1943 Russell's Guide. Northland Greyhound buses on some routes only tapped Minneapolis, but all of the Chicago trips went through St. Paul.

Although buses had been slowed down (mainly to conserve rubber), one trip in each direction was obviously the premier run, stopping in St. Paul at 1855, running via Red Wing, La Crosse at 0010 and arriving in Madison at 0445. After leaving there at 0500, it made most local stops into Chicago, arriving at 170 N. State St. at 1035 and the Chicago Depot at 12th & Wabash at 1045. It made one meal stop at Lake Geneva, 25 minutes for breakfast.

Here's the line-up to Chicago.

0135 - Eau Claire, Tomah, Madison
0735 - Red Wing, La Crosse, Madison
0810 - Eau Claire, Tomah, Madison
1025 - Eau Claire, Marshfield, Stevens Point, Milwaukee
1510 - Eau Claire, Tomah, Madison
1510 - Red Wing, La Crosse, Madison
1855 - Red Wing, La Crosse, Madison
2125 - Eau Claire, Abbotsford, Stevens Point., Milwaukee

What have notably vanished are the dozens of branch line services and little independents.

Willbridge said:

Well, this almost fits under the 1944 heading -- I'm looking at St. Paul listings in a November 1943 Russell's Guide. Northland Greyhound buses on some routes only tapped Minneapolis, but all of the Chicago trips went through St. Paul.

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It’s similar to what occurred in other “twin city”metro areas, where one of the two was treated as the primary terminal, and only trips passing through the second would stop there. In some cases, where the traffic supported it, they might have started some trips in the second city, and then stopped in the primary one before continuing on…
Places like Dallas and Fort Worth, or San Francisco and Oakland, for example…

jpakala said:

I remember that besides narrow two-lane roads (bridges were especially narrow) with minimal shoulders if any (my Dad deemed 48 mph a good speed in the early 1950s), and town after town (Mom would say from the map what we were coming to next), there was the problem of flats (remember inner tubes?) and overheated engines, etc. (of course no air conditioning). Flying cost a lot and was bouncy (even today there are still bags to throw up in). Occasional crashed planes also scared off some folks.

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Even in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s where I grew up, two lane roads were the norm. I remember flats; nobody drove a car without knowing how to change a tire. Small town downtowns prospered and you could stop at a nice cafe. Then bypasses came in and killed the small towns. The railroad was a luxurious way to travel in comparison.

toddinde said:

Even in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s where I grew up, two lane roads were the norm. I remember flats; nobody drove a car without knowing how to change a tire. Small town downtowns prospered and you could stop at a nice cafe. Then bypasses came in and killed the small towns. The railroad was a luxurious way to travel in comparison.

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Also no GPS or Google Maps in those days, you could get free maps at gas stations or for a long trip if you were a AAA member the customized route maps they provided. Navigation could get tricky at times especially if roads were not well marked.