They have more than enough F59phi to run the San Joquins 8 sets. Even with spares they don't need all 12 for the route.
Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2024)
- Thread starter jis
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
rickycourtney
Conductor
From my experience as a regular rider on the San Joaquins I can emphatically say that the seating in the café car is not seeing heavy use. Most people would rather sit at their seats, near the valuables in their luggage. Or at least in a less noisy environment to watch a movie on their phones. On top of that, there was no outside food or drinks allowed, which means the car wasn’t really open access (like say, the upper floor of a sightseer lounge), which means the conductors have to be patrolling that, creating more negative interactions with customers. So the reality is that they ended up hauling around a car with mostly empty space for the sake of having a cafe.
California and Amtrak knew this almost 25 years ago now. That’s why the Surfliner cars have their cafe downstairs. The booth seating provided was mostly there to check a box for ADA requirements and now these booths are typically used to host condiments or as storage. By moving it downstairs, the upper level could be all revenue seats.
All that considered, the cafe pictured in the trains article seems like a reasonable solution.
I do think that the San Joaquins JPA will continue to look for ways to cut down on costs. I wouldn’t be surprised if they contracted the operations out to a vendor other than Amtrak.
Oh and in defense of the snack boxes, they’re HUGE. This isn’t an airline bag of peanuts. It’s practically a meal. Similar to the snack boxes they sell on a plane for $10 or Amtrak hands out when your train is running hours behind schedule.
California and Amtrak knew this almost 25 years ago now. That’s why the Surfliner cars have their cafe downstairs. The booth seating provided was mostly there to check a box for ADA requirements and now these booths are typically used to host condiments or as storage. By moving it downstairs, the upper level could be all revenue seats.
All that considered, the cafe pictured in the trains article seems like a reasonable solution.
I do think that the San Joaquins JPA will continue to look for ways to cut down on costs. I wouldn’t be surprised if they contracted the operations out to a vendor other than Amtrak.
Oh and in defense of the snack boxes, they’re HUGE. This isn’t an airline bag of peanuts. It’s practically a meal. Similar to the snack boxes they sell on a plane for $10 or Amtrak hands out when your train is running hours behind schedule.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2024
- Messages
- 200
I might have mentioned this elsewhere, but I hear the Cascades Airo food service cars are supposed to have food cart capability. This may be something the state of Washington has requested. I think it's mostly for use on busy days. By the way, I don't know of any actual decision to get rid of the two Oregon-owned Talgo Series 8s when the Airo sets arrive. Based on the fact that we've been running short of equipment recently with our six Horizon sets and two Talgo sets and have had to run buses on a couple of Cascades schedules, there could be an argument for keeping those two Talgos. They could also help with expansion of the service, though they won't have quite the capacity of the Airo trainsets. And by the way, they won't be aged out yet when the Airos get into service (or will they by whenever that turns out to be)?
thefirewarde
Service Attendant
They are an orphan fleet (see also Piedmont in NC, the NCDOT would like to get something with a manufacturer that's still in business - and preferably not a reman locomotive either!) and it's been suggested that Horizons would hang around longer. Also, the tilting equipment is not looked on favorably after the wreck.
There's eight trainsets and seven round trips as of 2023 (Wikipedia). So you have one set down for maintenance - I think that's the same margin Brightline runs with? And that assumes none of your equipment can make two round trips a day.
If they scale up operations to the point they need some Amtrak national fleet equipment back, I expect they'll be able to retain some Horizon sets or get access to them. Are there frequency improvements expected before 2030?
There's eight trainsets and seven round trips as of 2023 (Wikipedia). So you have one set down for maintenance - I think that's the same margin Brightline runs with? And that assumes none of your equipment can make two round trips a day.
If they scale up operations to the point they need some Amtrak national fleet equipment back, I expect they'll be able to retain some Horizon sets or get access to them. Are there frequency improvements expected before 2030?
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Messages
- 307
On July 19 I rode the Missouri River Runner found trip between Jefferson City and Kansas City. Jefferson City to Kansas City in coach (Venture Business Class car in the 2X2 seating) and return in business class (Amfleet Cafe Car). On trains that were probably 75-80% full both ways most people, including those in business class walked to the cafe car and returned to their seats with their food. As MARC Rider mentioned, the fold out tables in the Venture cars have more space and are more sturdy than the fold out tables in the older cars. The Venture care seats are firm, but 2.5 hours in them was very comfortable, and the overall experience more pleasant than a ride in coach on the Horizon or Amfleet coaches that were used on the Missouri River Runner.
TrimetWESFan1003
Train Attendant
I know that there are supposed to be midwest cab cars too. What is the status of those?
TransitTyrant
Lead Service Attendant
The cab cars are only for the Hiawatha, they’re set to be delivered in late 2025-26 after WisDOTs separate order of Venture cars.
randomguy65
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Messages
- 37
An update on the San Joaquins Venture sets.
Per the San Joaquins Vally Rail Committee, Venture trainset 3 enters service in September, replacing trainset 2, which will start preventative maintenance.
Per the San Joaquins Vally Rail Committee, Venture trainset 3 enters service in September, replacing trainset 2, which will start preventative maintenance.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2024
- Messages
- 200
I very much appreciate this update on the San Joaquin Venture sets. Information on these has been really hard to come by. I assume that the cafe cars are still a long time in the future.
I saw them from my hotel window a few weeks ago....
randomguy65
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Messages
- 37
You're in luck. Have another slide.
They will soon be "preparing" for the vending coaches by ditching the snack boxes and doing a complimentary selection instead. (So basically, pick your free snack, instead of the box)
No information yet as far as when the vending coaches and cab cars will actually be deployed
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2024
- Messages
- 200
How are they doing refrigeration for these offerings, since coaches don't have that built in?
randomguy65
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Messages
- 37
I'm assuming you're talking about the complimentary items? Simply put, they won't. The current snack boxes are shelf-stable items that don't require refrigeration.
Hopefully we'll get some nice cold items such as sandwhiches once the vending cars go into service.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2024
- Messages
- 200
Thanks very much for the info! But I have a feeling we're looking for a year or two wait on those vending cars, or whatever else they come up with.
Apparently that's IDTX 4626, it's getting an ALC-42 nose. I found it quite confusing, in Washington our SC-44s don't have ALC-42 noses yet. I found it very cool.
Goldspike_Railfanning
Train Attendant
Yes, 4626 got the nose and I believe other Midwest Chargers will head to PLS to get it too. It's also been implied that the WSDOT Chargers may get the nose around the time the Airo sets come in, but not confirmed as far as I know.
I thought the cafe version would be a married pair to a coach, so how do they do this move ? Marry a cafe to a cafe ?
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Individual cars are incorporated into married pairs in the shops by changing the coupler and installing additional components in the gangway. The process takes an hour or two. That is how Brightline receives additional cars too.
Both my trips today—Lincoln outbound and Lincoln/River Runner return—had Venture cafes. I read elsewhere that at least one Lincoln train still has an old cafe, but we’re getting there. This was my first experience of them. I will ride a Wolverine train Thursday and report back. My last Michigan trip in September they had an old cafe.
Last edited:
