Cross-border checked baggage service for eastern routes

Many years ago, the Adirondack train had checked baggage service, including to/from Montreal. Did checked bags have to be offloaded and reloaded at the border crossing back then?

Also, under current conditions (assuming that sufficient baggage cars/crews exist), how feasible would it be to establish checked baggage service on eastern cross-border trains (e.g. Adirondack, Maple Leaf, along with potential future routes like the Montrealer and/or a Chicago-Toronto through train) if preclearance is not established in Montreal and/or Toronto?

There was also checked baggage on the VIA train that ran through Maine and the Amtrak train that ran through Ontario. All predate current security protocols. Between the risk of drug smuggling southbound, gun smuggling northbound and explosives hidden in checked bags in either direction, neither country's border services are likely to ever allow it again without some comprehensive agreement between the respective governments.

There's zero chance checked baggage would be allowed without preclearance. Even with preclearance it's a long shot.

Mailliw said:

There's zero chance checked baggage would be allowed without preclearance. Even with preclearance it's a long shot.

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The Cascades train to/from Vancouver BC has checked baggage. Leaving Vancouver you take your bags to trainside where you can check them. I guess you pick them up at trainside if you're arriving an Vancouver. This route has preclearance and no intermediate stops in Canada.

The Maple Leaf is actually a VIA train in Canada with several Canadian stops. They could do preclearance and baggage checking to Montreal on the Adirondack if they eliminated the stop at St. Lambert.

MARC Rider said:

The Maple Leaf is actually a VIA train in Canada with several Canadian stops. They could do preclearance and baggage checking to Montreal on the Adirondack if they eliminated the stop at St. Lambert.

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And added a joint Port of Entry facility at Gare Central, which seems to be entirely stalled from all reports.

MARC Rider said:

I guess you pick them up at trainside if you're arriving an Vancouver.

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Yes, they unload all bags and place them on the side of the platform before they start releasing passengers from the train. Passengers pick them up before proceeding to CBSA inspection.

TML said:

Many years ago, the Adirondack train had checked baggage service, including to/from Montreal. Did checked bags have to be offloaded and reloaded at the border crossing back then?

Also, under current conditions (assuming that sufficient baggage cars/crews exist), how feasible would it be to establish checked baggage service on eastern cross-border trains (e.g. Adirondack, Maple Leaf, along with potential future routes like the Montrealer and/or a Chicago-Toronto through train) if preclearance is not established in Montreal and/or Toronto?

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One nuance of the Cascades operation in Vancouver is that the CBP inspection in Vancouver is not full Preclearance. It is US Immigration inspection only, not Customs. US Customs inspection takes place onboard on US soil at the border in Blaine, WA with officers from the adjacent Peace Arch Port of Entry.

Originally, this was because the treaty that allowed Preclearance did not include rail, but air only, so the US did not have the extraterritorial rights to enforce US Customs law. Apparently they managed to work out a loophole for US Immigration because the only penalty there was was just turning people around, not admitting them so they just stayed in Canada, and possible future denial of US admittance.

The treaty has since been amended, fairly recently, to include rail, so legally they could now do full Preclearance at Vancouver. They don't, though, the reason I've heard that the current facility is inadequate and needs remodeling and enlargement in order to do US Customs, too. Although Canadian Customs is done in there.

In any case, my main point is the checked bags have not undergone US Customs inspection in Vancouver, at least not officially. And checked bags are allowed anyway.

zephyr17 said:

One nuance of the Cascades operation in Vancouver is that the CBP inspection in Vancouver is not full Preclearance. It is US Immigration inspection only, not Customs. US Customs inspection takes place onboard on US soil at the border in Blaine, WA with officers from the adjacent Peace Arch Port of Entry.

Originally, this was because the treaty that allowed Preclearance did not include rail, but air only, so the US did not have the extraterritorial rights to enforce US Customs law. Apparently they managed to work out a loophole for US Immigration because the only penalty there was was just turning people around, not admitting them so they just stayed in Canada, and possible future denial of US admittance.

The treaty has since been amended, fairly recently, to include rail, so legally they could now do full Preclearance at Vancouver. They don't, though, the reason I've heard that the current facility is inadequate and needs remodeling and enlargement in order to do US Customs, too. Although Canadian Customs is done in there.

In any case, my main point is the checked bags have not undergone US Customs inspection in Vancouver, at least not officially. And checked bags are allowed anyway.

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The "customs inspection" at Blaine consisted of the customs agent passing through the train collecting our customs declaration. Nobody got their bags inspected. At least that was my experience last year. The immigration agent in Vancouver did ask about what I was bringing in and took a look at my shopping bag with the alcohol and foodstuffs. They do need some room at Vancouver to inspect suitcases if they're serious about real customs inspections, but, come to think of there wasn't much room for opening suitcases at Niagara Falls, NY, either.

MARC Rider said:

They do need some room at Vancouver to inspect suitcases if they're serious about real customs inspections, but, come to think of there wasn't much room for opening suitcases at Niagara Falls, NY, either.

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At Vancouver there's a room in the facility to the south of the primary inspection counters that has space and tables for luggage inspection. CBSA does theirs in there. I was pulled into secondary once entering Canada and was sent there.

The primary agent was suspicious about my day trip without luggage. When I got in there the secondary agent asked me to empty my pockets since I didn't have any luggage. I started by pulling out a bunch of grocery receipts stuffed in my back pocket. He rolled his eyes, said that he didn't understand why I was sent in and let me go.

MARC Rider said:

The "customs inspection" at Blaine consisted of the customs agent passing through the train collecting our customs declaration. Nobody got their bags inspected.

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CBP will randomly ask questions at the onboard inspection at Blaine and when I used to bring across Tylenol with codeine when it was sold over the counter in Canada, they'd always ask about that (it was always on my declaration but the agent at Vancouver never asked). They also occasionally will bring a dog on. Frequently they want to look at your passport/ID again. It is the "official" customs inspection and while most of the time all they'll do is pick up the declarations and usually look at ID, it can be more than that. I've never seen a passenger called up to the baggage car or a suspicious bag brought down, but I imagine it happens. I have seen people asked to pull down bags from the overhead rack for inspection once or twice.

How it is done is kind of analogous to international air arrivals, you get an interview at the initial immigration desk, you pick up your checked bags after passing immigration and hand the declarations form to the agent(s) standing at the customs checkpoint. Sometimes they just take the form from you and you continue on your way, sometimes they ask a few questions, sometimes they refer you to inspection. It's still the customs inspection, however light or heavy.

I have been through the drill in Vancouver and Blaine many more times than I can count. I've been riding it regularly since the Vancouver service was reestablished in 1995. The Cascades to Vancouver and back is actually the single train I ride the most frequently.