Preferred connection time between Long Distance (LD) trains

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fdaley said:
I know there are people who regularly plan to spend the night in Chicago rather than relying on Amtrak's same-day connections, but in 20-plus cross-country trips we have never done this.
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We’ve done 11 trips east on SWC No. 4 where we had a same day connection in Chicago with CL No. 30. We’ve made all of them with the exception of one and that was due to extreme weather encountered in Missouri which delayed our train by 7 hours. Fortunately, we had a guaranteed connection and Amtrak put us up in a hotel for the night, gave each of us $40 worth of food coupons, and sent us out on the next day’s CL No. 30 which, incidentally, arrived at our destination (Toledo) only three minutes late. We’ll be doing this trip again next month and we fully expect to make our same day connection in Chicago.
 
Trucker72 said:
Are guaranteed connections only between LD trains?
For instance the LSL is schecduled to arrive at BOS by 2032. The last Downeaster to Portland is scheduled to leave BON at 2325. Is this a guaranteed connection?
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Guaranteed connections exist between any types of trains, LD such as the LSL and corridor such as the Downeaster. The general guideline is 60 minutes between trains except LD to NEC, which is 120 minutes. There are many exceptions to these guidelines and individual connections themselves are set in ARROW on a case by case basis. You cannot just assume a connection is guaranteed by looking at the connection time.

Actual guaranteed connections are shown on Amtrak.com by entering your origin and destination under the "one way" or "round trip" option. Any connections it returns are guaranteed by definition. There are some exceptions to this, having to do with the kludgy way connections have to be set up in ARROW, but that's the general rule.

The "Schedules" tab should show the same thing.

So enter your origin and destination and see what comes back. If it returns a self transfer between BOS and BON and the 2325 Downeaster, it is guaranteed. If it isn't and a "no trains available" response is returned, it is probably not. I say probably because of the kludge I mentioned before. In that case, there are ways to confirm it is indeed not guaranteed.
 
zephyr17 said:
If it returns a self transfer between BOS and BON and the 2325 Downeaster, it is guaranteed. If it isn't and a "no trains available" response is returned, it is probably not. I
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This got me recalling when Amtrak still operated from New York’s Grand Central Terminal. Back then, they provided a dedicated “Thruway” bus to transfer passengers to or from Penn Station, with connecting trains.
Wondering why they don’t do similar at Boston between North Station and either South Station or Back Bay, whichever is easier?🤔
 
If it's somewhere like Chicago, NYP, or DC where there's lots to do nearby and it's reasonable hours, then I'd like 2-3 hours to get out and see a bit, have a relaxed meal and not hurry. I tend to build in lots of cushion if possible, and not just on Amtrak but elsewhere too - not just travelling but generally, I hate feeling rushed. But I've done a longish wait til midnight in South Bend after getting dropped off and didn't mind that. Get there early and read.
 
BlackDiamond said:
Maybe not enough people transferring to justify a dedicated bus?
Also you have the Orange Line connection from BBY to BON which would probably be faster than a bus.
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The ‘T’ would work for me, but not for everyone. Some are too timid to use transit in a strange city, others might have difficulty handling baggage, etc…
But you may be correct in guessing that only a few Downeaster passengers are traveling beyond Boston.
 
railiner said:
The ‘T’ would work for me, but not for everyone. Some are too timid to use transit in a strange city, others might have difficulty handling baggage, etc…
But you may be correct in guessing that only a few Downeaster passengers are traveling beyond Boston.
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Wonder if there's any reasonable way to know how many people self-transfer between the two stations, and (even more difficult) to know how many more *would* make such a jounrey if it was easier. Seems pretty likely that:

  1. X people would travel from the Downeaster to NYC/Southern New England if it was a single seat from Maine down to NYP
  2. Fewer people would take the trip if it was a same-terminal connection at BOS
  3. Even fewer people would take the trip if it was a inter-terminal connection with a dedicated shuttle bus
  4. Even fewer people currently take the trip with a self-connection between terminals

So then the question is what is the difference between #3 and #4 and does it justify a shuttle? I'd think if a dedicated shuttle existed they could promote beyond-Boston connections in ways they can't/don't now.
 
I do not like the self transfer either, but one thing to remember is the Downeaster is a state supported corridor train, primarily by Maine. As are Empire Service trains, but Amtrak stopped routinely using GCT in 1991, long before the funding paradigm on non-NEC corridor trains became so rigid with 2008's PRIIA. So Massachusetts or Maine would have to see the need for a shuttle and pay for it, not Amtrak.

While state-supported corridor trains are operated and ticketed by Amtrak and often run with Amtrak equipment in Amtrak livery, I find it useful to think of them a contracted services, not "Amtrak" trains. The parties that contract for them decide what will be provided and what will not be, not the contractor. So "Amtrak should" and "Amtrak shouldn't" statements beyond those involving equipment and staffing availability are meaningless. Amtrak isn't making those decisions.
 
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zephyr17 said:
I do not like the self transfer either, but one thing to remember is the Downeaster is a state supported corridor train, primarily by Maine. As are Empire Service trains, but Amtrak stopped routinely using GCT in 1991, long before the funding paradigm on non-NEC corridor trains became so rigid with 2008's PRIIA. So Massachusetts or Maine would have to see the need for a shuttle and pay for it, not Amtrak.
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There was a period when Amtrak ran a shuttle between Penn Station and Grand Central only to connect to/from the Lake Shore Limited.
 
zephyr17 said:
I do not like the self transfer either, but one thing to remember is the Downeaster is a state supported corridor train, primarily by Maine. As are Empire Service trains, but Amtrak stopped routinely using GCT in 1991, long before the funding paradigm on non-NEC corridor trains became so rigid with 2008's PRIIA. So Massachusetts or Maine would have to see the need for a shuttle and pay for it, not Amtrak.
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Absolutely -- I would guess it would be Maine's dime (MA gets no real benefit to making it easier for someone to travel from Portland to NYP.) It might be as far removed from "Amtrak" as when states subsidize bus companies to run Amtrak thruway service, only instead of, say, Bangor to Brunswick it would be within the core of Boston. I wonder how much on top of what Maine currently pays for the Downeaster such a shuttle would cost. And maybe there's some level of farebox recovery -- if Portland-BON is $32 and BOS-New Haven is $28, maybe Portland-New Haven ticket is $67? I don't know if thru pricing is any more sophisticated than a simple add-on but it would benefit the NEC to have more ME/NH passengers. But 100% this doesn't happen unless Maine pushes and pays.
 
moselman66 said:
if Portland-BON is $32 and BOS-New Haven is $28, maybe Portland-New Haven ticket is $67? I don't know if thru pricing is any more sophisticated than a simple add-on but it would benefit the NEC to have more ME/NH passengers.
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Through tickets with guaranteed connections are offered by Amtrak right now. I ran POR-NHV for next Wednesday and got multiple options with coach fares ranging from $60 to $85 using all-rail options. The variances would be the result of available inventory and yield management. The itinerary assumes the connection is a self transfer, BON-BBY. Of course, there wouldn't be a problem boarding at BOS with a BBY ticket.
Screenshot_20240927_150951_Chrome.jpg
Note the "20 minutes" is the estimated time required for transit itself. The actual time between arrival and departure is 60 minutes between trains, but I cannot seem to get that to show on a single page.
 
zephyr17 said:
Through tickets with guaranteed connections are offered by Amtrak right now. I ran POR-NHV for next Wednesday and got multiple options with coach fares ranging from $60 to $85 using all-rail options. The variances would be the result of available inventory and yield management. The itinerary assumes the connection is a self transfer, BON-BBY. Of course, there wouldn't be a problem boarding at BOS with a BBY ticket.
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Note the "20 minutes" is the estimated time required for transit itself. The actual time between arrival and departure is 60 minutes between trains, but I cannot seem to get that to show on a single page.
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Duh on my part -- thank you for posting that and I'm embarassed to not have tried myself. I just assumed anything beyond Boston would say no trains found. Given that this does exist for sale I'm guessing they do get some beyond-Boston traffic, though I'm sure others are dissuaded by the self-trransfer. On a semi-related note, as I've been digging through old rail guides I've noticed when you look up cities in the index there is often a note indicating how far apart stations are. So if you're connecting somplace between, say, the B&O and the NY Central you could see that your stations were 500 yards apart or 1.5 mi apart, etc. I guess there's definite history of transferring between trains using different terminals. As an airline guy myself that's pretty foreign to my way of thinking, though TWA did used to sell international connections where you flew into LaGuardia and then had to transfer to JFK, and I *think* you were on your own to transfer.
 
moselman66 said:
As an airline guy myself that's pretty foreign to my way of thinking, though TWA did used to sell international connections where you flew into LaGuardia and then had to transfer to JFK, and I *think* you were on your own to transfer.
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This still happens with American Airlines. And you are definitely on your own to make the transfer.
 
DCAKen said:
This still happens with American Airlines. And you are definitely on your own to make the transfer.
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I believe United offers the same experience going between Newark and JFK... no thanks! :)

Getting back to trains: for me it's dependent on where I'm connecting, who's involved, and what the contingencies are if I miss the connection. In Europe I am comfortable with relatively short transfer times between most trains, especially if trains have a cafe car or equivalent service. I don't mind 15-20 minutes at a station to get a cup of coffee or a drink if it's scheduled in. I've booked a three-minute connection in the Czech Republic before and it "worked" in the sense that the connecting train was 20 minutes late, and there are follow-on trains every other hour. If it's close to a meal time, or if it's between a night train and another train, I don't mind booking a couple of hours or more at the transfer station and getting food or exploring the town.

With Amtrak, the guaranteed connections are fine but otherwise all bets are off. All transfer points between trains are such that I'd rather have more time than less, assuming I can fill that time effectively. There is an awkward one- to two-hour layover time where you're stuck in the station, but that might be because most Amtrak stations have a "transit center" quality to them instead of an airport or city center with services.
 
Depends on if we miss meal times. CIN-KIS via Cardinal/Bus/Silver Meteor meant missing dinner on the train, so we needed time to get food during the layover. Return trip sleeper attendant made sure we got breakfast before WAS, but it wasn't much time to eat. 3.5hrs was enough for a quick bite to eat but lines did take a bit.
I have noticed though having more layover time or fresh air stops helps lessen the wobbly effects afterwards.
 
Parmalee was a well-known name to many. Central, C&NW, Dearborn, Grand Central, Lasalle, and Union Stations were connected by Parmalee. I remember in 1956 arriving on the PRR at Union and walking into the crowded beautiful main waiting room from the concourse (there was no office building above the section of Union between the northbound & southbound tracks). Parmalee limos were at the left end through the doors, and the slight ramp descending from street level was filled with them, with Parmalee employees calling out which limo-like vehicle to get into to reach, in our case, Central Station where we would board the IC's Land O'Corn to Waterloo, IA.
 
jpakala said:
Parmalee was a well-known name to many. Central, C&NW, Dearborn, Grand Central, Lasalle, and Union Stations were connected by Parmalee. I remember in 1956 arriving on the PRR at Union and walking into the crowded beautiful main waiting room from the concourse (there was no office building above the section of Union between the northbound & southbound tracks). Parmalee limos were at the left end through the doors, and the slight ramp descending from street level was filled with them, with Parmalee employees calling out which limo-like vehicle to get into to reach, in our case, Central Station where we would board the IC's Land O'Corn to Waterloo, IA.
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I didnt get to Chicago until 1966. By then, Parmalee had sold the Railroad Transfer Service to Keeshin, another long time Chicago coach company. They used to have ads in the Official Railway Guide, encouraging agents to sell their coupon ticket to passengers transferring between stations.

Parmalee later started Continental Air Transport, running coaches from both Chicago airports to major Loop hotels.
 
jpakala said:
Parmalee was a well-known name to many. Central, C&NW, Dearborn, Grand Central, Lasalle, and Union Stations were connected by Parmalee. I remember in 1956 arriving on the PRR at Union and walking into the crowded beautiful main waiting room from the concourse (there was no office building above the section of Union between the northbound & southbound tracks). Parmalee limos were at the left end through the doors, and the slight ramp descending from street level was filled with them, with Parmalee employees calling out which limo-like vehicle to get into to reach, in our case, Central Station where we would board the IC's Land O'Corn to Waterloo, IA.
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This brings back fond memories of when I was in college at the University of Northern Iowa in the 1960's (then State College of Iowa). Our marching band took the train in two separate years from Waterloo, to Chicago on the IC. We marched in half-time shows for the Chicago Bears.
 
zephyr17 said:
Guaranteed connections exist between any types of trains, LD such as the LSL and corridor such as the Downeaster. The general guideline is 60 minutes between trains except LD to NEC, which is 120 minutes. There are many exceptions to these guidelines and individual connections themselves are set in ARROW on a case by case basis. You cannot just assume a connection is guaranteed by looking at the connection time.

Actual guaranteed connections are shown on Amtrak.com by entering your origin and destination under the "one way" or "round trip" option. Any connections it returns are guaranteed by definition. There are some exceptions to this, having to do with the kludgy way connections have to be set up in ARROW, but that's the general rule.

The "Schedules" tab should show the same thing.

So enter your origin and destination and see what comes back. If it returns a self transfer between BOS and BON and the 2325 Downeaster, it is guaranteed. If it isn't and a "no trains available" response is returned, it is probably not. I say probably because of the kludge I mentioned before. In that case, there are ways to confirm it is indeed not guaranteed.
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Today I changed my reservation for SJC-FTW by upgrading to a bedroom (called Guest Rewards to get it done). My original ticket said "SJC > FTW ONE-WAY" at the top.

The new ticket - same reservation number, same day, same trains (CS 11 and SL 2), same cars even. But the top of the ticket says "SJC-MULTIPLE CITIES MULTI-CITY TRIP"

Why would they change that? I'm still boarding at SJC, then LAX-FTW, same as I was doing with the original ticket. Is it still a guaranteed connection??
 
jazzharris said:
Today I changed my reservation for SJC-FTW by upgrading to a bedroom (called Guest Rewards to get it done). My original ticket said "SJC > FTW ONE-WAY" at the top.

The new ticket - same reservation number, same day, same trains (CS 11 and SL 2), same cars even. But the top of the ticket says "SJC-MULTIPLE CITIES MULTI-CITY TRIP"

Why would they change that? I'm still boarding at SJC, then LAX-FTW, same as I was doing with the original ticket. Is it still a guaranteed connection??
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Yes, guaranteed connections booked using Multi-City are still guaranteed. Some things have to be booked using Multi-City, particularly between smaller cities that haven't been added to the city pair lists between two trains that show as guaranteed between larger cities.

While that isn't the cause in your case, the agent probably found it easier to just modify one segment, so it now comes up as Multi-City.

You may feel easier knowing how misconnects actually are handled. The computer spits out a list of passengers on the inbound train that are booked on the outbound train which will be missed, on the same reservations. Amtrak agents then work the list to set up accommodations and revised itineraries for the affected passengers. It doesn't matter how the reservation was made, only that both trains are on a single reservation so the system can find it.

The times that Multi-City doesn't work is when it is used to force connections that aren't otherwise guaranteed. That's primarily because no one will run or work such a passenger list. The converse, different reservations on a guaranteed connection, doesn't work either. That's because, while a list will be generated, passengers having separate reservations won't be on it.
 
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zephyr17 said:
Yes, guaranteed connections booked using Multi-City are still guaranteed. Some things have to be booked using Multi-City, particularly between smaller cities that haven't been added to the city pair lists between two trains that show as guaranteed between larger cities.

While that isn't the cause in your case, the agent probably found it easier to just modify one segment, so it now comes up as Multi-City.

You may feel easier knowing how misconnects actually are handled. The computer spits out a list of passengers on the inbound train that are booked on the outbound train which will be missed, on the same reservations. Amtrak agents then work the list to set up accommodations and revised itineraries for the affected passengers. It doesn't matter how the reservation was made, only that both trains are single reservation so the system can find it.

The times that Multi-City doesn't work is when it is used to force connections that aren't otherwise guaranteed. That's primarily because no one will run or work such a passenger list. The converse, different reservations on a guaranteed connection, doesn't work either. That's because, while a list will be generated, passengers having separate reservations won't be on it.
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Thank you so very much, you've taken a load off my mind!
 

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