Sunset Limited discussion

zephyr17 said:

That's the schedule I remember that left LA mid afternoon. I didn't remember when they reverted to the traditional 10 pm LA departure, though.

I quite liked that schedule. I thought you got better scenery with it, Beaumont Pass, the Salton Sea, Pecos High Bridge, though it didn't work well for connections.

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I have traveled on the eastbound Sunset under both schedules and liked the previous (pre-early May 2012) schedule much better. Although I enjoyed the scenery east of Tucson in the morning under the present schedule, the earlier schedule offered much better views across Texas. I especially liked the section where the Sunset route runs along a cliff with the cliff overhanging the train in places. I can't recall if that section was between Sanderson and High Bridge or between High Bridge and Del Rio.

Rasputin said:

I can't recall if that section was between Sanderson and High Bridge or between High Bridge and Del Rio.

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Assuming the High Bridge is the Pecos River bridge, it's between there and Del Rio. I remember waking up on #1 a few years ago and sipping coffee while watching the sunrise over the PEcos River. It was a lovely view and one of my favorite memories on the train, but the land was very normal desert, no cliffs.

Rasputin said:

Pre-Amtrak and in early Amtrak, the actual switching would likely take about 20 minutes I suspect.

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In 1967 The Sunset Limited was combined with the Golden State in El Paso. The Sunset arrived at 1:35 and the Golden State arrived at 2:35. The combined train left at 3:00.

Rasputin said:

Pre-Amtrak and in early Amtrak, the actual switching would likely take about 20 minutes I suspect.

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I I opened one eye very briefly, but basically slept through the stop and reconfiguring the train.

Sunrobber said:

I I opened one eye very briefly, but basically slept through the stop and reconfiguring the train.

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Switching used to go much quicker and Smoother back in the day, when there were many more Trains and Crews @ Stations where Switching was done in the Station.

Sunrobber said:

I I opened one eye very briefly, but basically slept through the stop and reconfiguring the train.

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I never thought I slept well on trains until I missed San Antone completely.

Asher said:

I never thought I slept well on trains until I missed San Antone completely.

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Of all the hundreds of times I've ridden thru San Antonio on the Sunset/Eagle in both directions, I've yet to be able to do this!

FortCalhoun said:

In 1967 The Sunset Limited was combined with the Golden State in El Paso. The Sunset arrived at 1:35 and the Golden State arrived at 2:35. The combined train left at 3:00.

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The Golden State had a Yuma to San Diego Section

FortCalhoun said:

In 1967 The Sunset Limited was combined with the Golden State in El Paso. The Sunset arrived at 1:35 and the Golden State arrived at 2:35. The combined train left at 3:00.

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uncleboots said:

The Golden State had a Yuma to San Diego Section

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Not by 1967.

That combining of the Sunset and Golden State actually happened in April of 1964. An ex-SP passenger guy told me it came as a surprise. Another account said it was technically illegal and caused a lot of confusion and problems. During that first summer it ran as long as 27 cars west of El Paso with a capacity of something like 700 people and was given only the Golden State's diner and lounge cars and the Sunset's automat car for food service. All three were swamped at meal times. Not a fun ride anymore.

Harmon Shay said:

That combining of the Sunset and Golden State actually happened in April of 1964. An ex-SP passenger guy told me it came as a surprise. Another account said it was technically illegal and caused a lot of confusion and problems. During that first summer it ran as long as 27 cars west of El Paso with a capacity of something like 700 people and was given only the Golden State's diner and lounge cars and the Sunset's automat car for food service. All three were swamped at meal times. Not a fun ride anymore.

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I rode this combo once, and it was jam packed with people waiting hours to eat.

As I remember they even had a 10PM Dimner setting that night.

zephyr17 said:

Not by 1967.

Harmon Shay said:

That combining of the Sunset and Golden State actually happened in April of 1964. An ex-SP passenger guy told me it came as a surprise. Another account said it was technically illegal and caused a lot of confusion and problems. During that first summer it ran as long as 27 cars west of El Paso with a capacity of something like 700 people and was given only the Golden State's diner and lounge cars and the Sunset's automat car for food service. All three were swamped at meal times. Not a fun ride anymore.

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zephyr17 said:

Not by 1967.

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ORIGINALLY!!!!!!!!

uncleboots said:

The Golden State had a Yuma to San Diego Section

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Don't know when passenger service ended. Wiki says 1951. Nor do I know whether or not it was regarded as a section of the Golden State, or a connecting train or a connection to some other train. I suspect not since the one passenger train each way was essentially a local. The railroad was built as the San Diego and Arizona, later called the San Diego and Arizona Eastern, but was controlled by Southern Pacific. It looped through Mexico, the Mexican portion being the Tijuana and Tecate. This was 148.1 miles to El Centro CA with 44 miles being on the T&T. The rest of the way to Yuma AZ was on a Southern Pacific branch 9.1 miles to Calexico on the Mexican border, thence back into Mexico for 52 miles on the Inter California Railway, then 9 miles back in the US to Yuma. Total 218 miles San Diego to Yuma.

My mother-in-law talked once about riding on it during WW2. She was returning from San Diego to Pensacola after spending some time in San Diego while her husband's ship was in port. (I never met the man. He died before I met my wife to be.) She had three small kids, not including my wife who was born in 1947. They were in coach. She probably never even ever saw the inside of a Pullman car. Beyond their budget. She talked about the whole passenger clientele being somewhat creepy, particularly when she realized they were outside the US and in Mexico on two different sections of the route. The whole San Diego to Yuma time was on the order of 8 hours. I do not know what the entire trip time was, but their destination was Pensacola FL. Yes, during that time many people took multi day/night trips in coach.

George Harris said:

Don't know when passenger service ended. Wiki says 1951. Nor do I know whether or not it was regarded as a section of the Golden State, or a connecting train or a connection to some other train. I suspect not since the one passenger train each way was essentially a local. The railroad was built as the San Diego and Arizona, later called the San Diego and Arizona Eastern, but was controlled by Southern Pacific. It looped through Mexico, the Mexican portion being the Tijuana and Tecate. This was 148.1 miles to El Centro CA with 44 miles being on the T&T. The rest of the way to Yuma AZ was on a Southern Pacific branch 9.1 miles to Calexico on the Mexican border, thence back into Mexico for 52 miles on the Inter California Railway, then 9 miles back in the US to Yuma. Total 218 miles San Diego to Yuma.

My mother-in-law talked once about riding on it during WW2. She was returning from San Diego to Pensacola after spending some time in San Diego while her husband's ship was in port. (I never met the man. He died before I met my wife to be.) She had three small kids, not including my wife who was born in 1947. They were in coach. She probably never even ever saw the inside of a Pullman car. Beyond their budget. She talked about the whole passenger clientele being somewhat creepy, particularly when she realized they were outside the US and in Mexico on two different sections of the route. The whole San Diego to Yuma time was on the order of 8 hours. I do not know what the entire trip time was, but their destination was Pensacola FL. Yes, during that time many people took multi day/night trips in coach.

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It was included in a earlier timetable

George Harris said:

Don't know when passenger service ended. Wiki says 1951. Nor do I know whether or not it was regarded as a section of the Golden State, or a connecting train or a connection to some other train. I suspect not since the one passenger train each way was essentially a local. The railroad was built as the San Diego and Arizona, later called the San Diego and Arizona Eastern, but was controlled by Southern Pacific. It looped through Mexico, the Mexican portion being the Tijuana and Tecate. This was 148.1 miles to El Centro CA with 44 miles being on the T&T. The rest of the way to Yuma AZ was on a Southern Pacific branch 9.1 miles to Calexico on the Mexican border, thence back into Mexico for 52 miles on the Inter California Railway, then 9 miles back in the US to Yuma. Total 218 miles San Diego to Yuma.

My mother-in-law talked once about riding on it during WW2. She was returning from San Diego to Pensacola after spending some time in San Diego while her husband's ship was in port. (I never met the man. He died before I met my wife to be.) She had three small kids, not including my wife who was born in 1947. They were in coach. She probably never even ever saw the inside of a Pullman car. Beyond their budget. She talked about the whole passenger clientele being somewhat creepy, particularly when she realized they were outside the US and in Mexico on two different sections of the route. The whole San Diego to Yuma time was on the order of 8 hours. I do not know what the entire trip time was, but their destination was Pensacola FL. Yes, during that time many people took multi day/night trips in coach.

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The imperial was the Chi-La train that provided service to San Diego

In reference to my comment about Mother-in-law and kids riding east from San Diego to Yuma, thence eastward.

uncleboots said:

The imperial was the Chi-La train that provided service to San Diego

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Her destination was Pensacola FL, so she would not have ended up on the Imperial. If that was the through train into San Diego, and I am not sure that was the case in WW2, she would have had to change somewhere, either Yuma or El Paso, as her destination on the SP would have been New Orleans, thence on the L&N for the rest of the trip.

@George Harris

Here is a link to a SP timetable from 1941. It shows the routing your mother-law probably would have taken.

https://streamlinermemories.info/SP/SP41-12TT.pdf

39kartma said:

@George Harris

Here is a link to a SP timetable from 1941. It shows the routing your mother-law probably would have taken.

https://streamlinermemories.info/SP/SP41-12TT.pdf

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Yes! Thank you very much.
Looking thorough it gives you an idea of what long distance travel would have been like at that time. I suspect her trip was probably a couple years later, but seems reasonable to think the schedules would be much the same. For those that don't want to hunt it up, you have trains 362-44 on the SD&AE to Yuma, then train 6 on the SP. Since the equipment says through coach San Diego to El Paso at least she did not spend a few hours in the middle of the night in the station at Yuma with three small kids. The kids were probably 7, 4, and 2 at the time she made the trip. Train 6 had through coaches Los Angeles to New Orleans, so she could probably have moved to the New Orleans car without getting off the train. Here you have it:
Train 362-44
5:15pm Lv San Diego
12:40am Ar Yuma AZ (Pacific Time. this is just past midnight)
Eleven stops plus five flag stops in 218 miles, 7 hours 25 minutes, average 29.4 mph. It was the miles in Mexico in the middle of the night that creeped her out.
Train 6 - apparently this train did not go through Phoenix.
4:15am Lv Yuma (Mountain Time, so 2 hours 35 minutes dwell by schedule)
10:35am Ar Tucson
11:02am Lv Tucson
7:35pm Ar El Paso (605 miles from Yuma via Phoenix)
8:30pm Lv El Paso (Mountain Time)
3:10pm Ar San Antonio (Central Time)
7:30am Ar New Orleans (Central Time) (1,117 miles from El Paso)
1,722 miles, 50 hour 15 minutes on the SP, average 34.3 mph
Total so far, 62 hours 15 minutes for 1,940 miles from San Diego, average 31.2 mph (including all dwell time)

Now I am going to hunt up the L&N time and correct the SP distance for Phoenix bypass. Will just do as edit to this post if I find it quick enough. 1941 SP TT shows connection to Jacksonville leaving New Orleans at 8:45am, which would be through Pensacola.

L&N distance, 243 miles, time in a 1950 timetable that appears to be similar to the 1941 SP TT connection, but having a 10:55am departure, takes 6 hours 40 minutes, for average speed of 36.4 mph. (Remember, there is no direct line between Mobile and Pensacola. The junction is at Flomaton AL, rail distance 103 miles Mobile to Pensacola versus about 50 by direct highway.)

Thus, we have an end to end trip distance of 2,183 miles and a trip time, 8:45 plus 6:40 = 3:25pm giving an overall time of 70 hours 10 minutes = 31.1 mph. Three nights plus three days. Not exactly light speed, but probably better than bus or driving time for the 1940's.

George Harris said:

My mother-in-law talked once about riding on it during WW2. She was returning from San Diego to Pensacola after spending some time in San Diego while her husband's ship was in port. (I never met the man. He died before I met my wife to be.) She had three small kids, not including my wife who was born in 1947. They were in coach. She probably never even ever saw the inside of a Pullman car. Beyond their budget

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Reminds me of my mother’s experience during WWII…
She traveled from her home in New York City, all the way to Biloxi, Mississippi, standing all the way (or sitting in the aisle on her suitcase). And she considered herself lucky to do that, enduring the two day trip for a chance to say goodbye to my father, just before they shipped him over to the war in Europe.
Not sure which trains she rode…

railiner said:

Reminds me of my mother’s experience during WWII…
She traveled from her home in New York City, all the way to Biloxi, Mississippi, standing all the way (or sitting in the aisle on her suitcase). And she considered herself lucky to do that, enduring the two day trip for a chance to say goodbye to my father, just before they shipped him over to the war in Europe.
Not sure which trains she rode…

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Or my maternal grandmother's experience in 1943 riding from Chattanooga to Fort Wayne to visit my namesake navigator uncle for the final time. He had taken sick after returning from the Solomon Islands. She too had to stand in the aisle or sit on her suitcase to Cincinnati as there were simply no seats to be had. After Cincinnati, a kind GI gave up his seat so that she could sit down. On the way back, she was able to be seated for the entire leg of the trop.

I have no idea as to which trains or routes she took but I remember her story about the trip and will never forget it. She always wondered what happened to the nice young man who took pity on her.

Great Family Memories of Train trips during the WWII Days !

The overcrowding on trains during World War II and reduction in some train services is quite understandable with the priority given to the war effort. However these factors are often cited as reasons why many were desperate to purchase automobiles once they became available after the war and why so many people deserted rail travel in droves despite the improvements in rail passenger service after the war.

Night Ranger said:

Or my maternal grandmother's experience in 1943 riding from Chattanooga to Fort Wayne to visit my namesake navigator uncle for the final time. He had taken sick after returning from the Solomon Islands...

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You don't say when or how he succumbed, but this brought tears to my eyes. I recently compiled (with added historical and social context) and self-published my uncle's WWII letters home to his widowed mom and kid sister, my mother. My uncle returned. Many didn't. Families never forget.