1935 20th Century Limited Video
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Thanks to Tom for providing this. It is worth a second read since there is much detail to catch on to.
It might be noted that this was still heavyweight. A brand new lightweight streamlined version would be built in 1938 and again in 1948. One will note a need to advertise it as air conditioned. Not all trains were, i.e. some things we take for granted today
As they mention sleeping car rooms, they say nothing about roomettes. That is because roomettes were not invented until 1937 two years after this..
The schedule was later reduced to at least 16 hours and it may have been cut to 15.75 at one time, not sure
It shows mail, i.e. letters. being distributed. Yes, many passenger trains hauled mail. In the case of the Century one could specify that it go on the Century on the envelope thus assuring it got to its destination as soon as possible.
It used Lasalle street station in Chicago. Chicago used to have several big downtown stations. They used a red carpet for the train both there and at Grand Central Terminal.
You will notice the train seemed to have two sections on that day. That is not unusual.
It shows there used to be a Chicago to Boston section, as well as Chicago to New York.This video shows the change to electric before entering New York.
It also used to have valet service and a barber.
It might be noted that this was still heavyweight. A brand new lightweight streamlined version would be built in 1938 and again in 1948. One will note a need to advertise it as air conditioned. Not all trains were, i.e. some things we take for granted today
As they mention sleeping car rooms, they say nothing about roomettes. That is because roomettes were not invented until 1937 two years after this..
The schedule was later reduced to at least 16 hours and it may have been cut to 15.75 at one time, not sure
It shows mail, i.e. letters. being distributed. Yes, many passenger trains hauled mail. In the case of the Century one could specify that it go on the Century on the envelope thus assuring it got to its destination as soon as possible.
It used Lasalle street station in Chicago. Chicago used to have several big downtown stations. They used a red carpet for the train both there and at Grand Central Terminal.
You will notice the train seemed to have two sections on that day. That is not unusual.
It shows there used to be a Chicago to Boston section, as well as Chicago to New York.This video shows the change to electric before entering New York.
It also used to have valet service and a barber.
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Toward the end it shows people literally running down the platform when the train arrives New York.. These are probably photographers and reporrers covering and snapping the celebrities who rode it.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
At least US trains were air-conditioned a lot ealier than many foreign trains. Note at 8:44 the roof vents of some cars were sealed by the retrofitted air-con.
BTW, that locomotive is a Hudson, right? Did the Niagaras ever haul it?
BTW, that locomotive is a Hudson, right? Did the Niagaras ever haul it?
I do not know much about locomotives
:hi: Thanks for Posting Tom, as always most Enjoyable! Even on a Crack Train like the 20th Century the Chairs in the Sections didnt look that Comfortable! And the Barber and the guys Shaving made me think they were Braver in those days!
Corrected: Deleted the Reference to Coaches
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Jim I think what looked like a chair aar coach was sections sleeper in the day position
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
The Century did not carry Coach Cars.
:hi: I stand corrected guys, just looked like the Old Chair Cars, I knew the 2oth Century didnt run Coaches then! :blush:
(and having just ridden the Canadian which still has Sections should have reminded me!)
(and having just ridden the Canadian which still has Sections should have reminded me!)
Correct...until around 1958 when the Central 'downgraded' the Century by adding coaches. That left it's archrival, the Broadway Limited, as the last all Pullman New York/Chicago streamliner, which it remained, until the Penn Central merger, when it too was downgraded by combining it with the General, at one time also all Pullman, but previously having added coaches.....
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
So the BL was the last coachless passenger train in the US? And presumably North America.
It was, or at least one of the last.....Not sure about the IC Panama Limited....I'm thinking it was all Pullman also until around '67 or '68, then was combined with the 'Magnolia Star'...and the Super Chief was combined with the El Capitan around that same era, except for peak holday's or summertime. There may have been some others. If you count all parlor car trains as 'coachless', there was the Long Island's weekend 'Cannonball'......which outlasted all of the others......
Parlor cars were counted as pullman since they were operated by the pullman company
As to the last all pullman train I am going to go out on a limb......do not shoot me....but I kinda sorta think it was a lesser known, the PRR Pittsburgher from Pittsburgh to NYC.
I would point out that historically the Crescent was all pullman from NYC to Atlanta, coaches below. But it in more recent years the preAmtrak train had coaches from NYC to DC and separately from DC to Charlotte.So the last train to be all pullman for PART of is trip might be the Crescent from Charlotte to Atlanta.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
The Pittsburgher? There wasen't much of a market for coaches on that, though. And the Crescent idea sounds great, Sleepers only NYC-ATL.
N
Nathanael
Guest
What gets to me is that the 17 hour schedule is THREE HOURS faster than the current eastbound schedule of the LSL.
OK, so it's only two hours faster than the westbound schedule. Of course it has 15 more stops... but while that might add an hour and a half, it still shouldn't take two hours, let alone three. We're doing worse than in 1935 *with steam traction and heavyweight cars*, along essentially the same route. (The route changes are the NY Penn Station connection, the Chicago Union Station connection, the destruction of the passenger route through Syracuse in the 1950s, and some minor rearrangements between Gary and Chicago due to Conrail.)
When the LSL is moved out of peak Metro-North commute hours and the double track is reinstated through Schenectady, that should chop an hour off the eastbound schedule.
Improvements from Poughkeepsie through Schenectady may chop another half-hour off (optimistically). And if the track from Chicago through Gary is brought up to speed -- from its current 40mph and below -- that would probably chop off another hour. At a 17.5 hour schedule with the additional 15 stops, we might finally be comparable to a train of 1938, with the 16-hour (nearly nonstop) schedule. Then maybe we can start talking about high speed rail.
OK, so it's only two hours faster than the westbound schedule. Of course it has 15 more stops... but while that might add an hour and a half, it still shouldn't take two hours, let alone three. We're doing worse than in 1935 *with steam traction and heavyweight cars*, along essentially the same route. (The route changes are the NY Penn Station connection, the Chicago Union Station connection, the destruction of the passenger route through Syracuse in the 1950s, and some minor rearrangements between Gary and Chicago due to Conrail.)
When the LSL is moved out of peak Metro-North commute hours and the double track is reinstated through Schenectady, that should chop an hour off the eastbound schedule.
Improvements from Poughkeepsie through Schenectady may chop another half-hour off (optimistically). And if the track from Chicago through Gary is brought up to speed -- from its current 40mph and below -- that would probably chop off another hour. At a 17.5 hour schedule with the additional 15 stops, we might finally be comparable to a train of 1938, with the 16-hour (nearly nonstop) schedule. Then maybe we can start talking about high speed rail.
Actually, it and the Broadway were reduced to 16 hours during the streamlined era. Further I think there was a period of time when each one ran in 15.75 hours.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
You can do wonders with running time when you are allowed to bring the rest of the railroad to a standstill to get one train through.
The eastbound simply has an hour's worth of padding to get it out of commission hour at Penn Station. If/when the schedule is changed to get the LSL out of Chicago by 6:30pm, automagically that extra one hour should disappear without requiring any other major gymnastics.
The eastbound simply has an hour's worth of padding to get it out of commission hour at Penn Station. If/when the schedule is changed to get the LSL out of Chicago by 6:30pm, automagically that extra one hour should disappear without requiring any other major gymnastics.
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The all-Pullman Pittsburgher was discontinued in 1964. The all-Pullman status of the Broadway Limited ended in 1967 (still in the PRR era).
To be completely accurate, the Broadway Limited itself ended in 1967. The PRR simply transferred the name to another New York - Chicago train: The General. The Broadway's train numbers - 28 & 29 - were retired. The General's train numbers - 48 and 49 - became the "Broadway Limited". The train operated with the same schedule, made the same stops, and used the same equipment as The General. If it walked like The General, and quacked like The General, ...
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Immediately after the war (the second big one) I believe the 20th Century Limited was briefly scheduled for 15.5 hours, but it was found to be hard to maintain, and it was reverted back to 16.
Here is what made the 20th Century limited so special in my eyes:
Looking at the current timetable, you can cut almost an hour (55 minutes) off your trip by taking the weekday Train 237 from NYP at 4:40 PM, and arriving ALB 7:00 PM, and if lucky, catch the LSL departing there at 7:05 PM....
Similarly, you can get off the LSL at ALB at 2:50 PM, if on time, and catch the weekday Train 242 departing ALB at 3:05 PM, and arrive NYP at 5:35 PM, a full hour earlier than the LSL at 6:35 PM.
Not in nearly the same comfort, but if you're in a hurry, (or perhaps if you missed #49), a real timesaver....
As far as speed goes, the fastest all time train on the Chicago/New York route was the eastbound Broadway Limited, which for a brief period made the trip in 15 hours and 30 minutes....
Central pundits will point out that the PRR's route was about 53 miles shorter....but than the PRR had to climb the Alleghenies to accomplish the feat.....
Similarly, you can get off the LSL at ALB at 2:50 PM, if on time, and catch the weekday Train 242 departing ALB at 3:05 PM, and arrive NYP at 5:35 PM, a full hour earlier than the LSL at 6:35 PM.
Not in nearly the same comfort, but if you're in a hurry, (or perhaps if you missed #49), a real timesaver....
As far as speed goes, the fastest all time train on the Chicago/New York route was the eastbound Broadway Limited, which for a brief period made the trip in 15 hours and 30 minutes....
Central pundits will point out that the PRR's route was about 53 miles shorter....but than the PRR had to climb the Alleghenies to accomplish the feat.....
Agree that the 1938 Henry Dreyfuss styled Hudson was beautiful, as was the entire train, all the way to the obs. car. I can't post photo's, but the 1938 Broadway, styled by Raymond Loewy, including streamlined Pacific's was also stunning.....Immediately after the war (the second big one) I believe the 20th Century Limited was briefly scheduled for 15.5 hours, but it was found to be hard to maintain, and it was reverted back to 16.
Here is what made the 20th Century limited so special in my eyes:
Edit: PS...the GG-1 wasn't hard to look at either......
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N
Nathanael
Guest
This interestingly shows that the problems in running time really are on the ends, not in the middle part of the run. Which means we should be able to fix them.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I really liked the Sharknose on the BL whether steam or diesel. Too bad the T1 and S1 both failed and the DR-6-4-2000 wasn't much better off. I think the Centipede was for freight trains but also hauled pax around the Curve.
Seeing time comparisons to the SD trains, we could easily run the LSL on a 18-hour schedule if the Heritage cars were replaced. That would bring it on-par with other NYC trains like the Mohawk, AFAIK.
Seeing time comparisons to the SD trains, we could easily run the LSL on a 18-hour schedule if the Heritage cars were replaced. That would bring it on-par with other NYC trains like the Mohawk, AFAIK.
A Hudson was a steam locomotive with a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement, meaning four idler wheels (2 axles) at the front, 6 driving wheels (3 axles), and 4 trailing wheels (again, 2 axles).
A Niagara was a 4-8-4 locomotive, similar to the Hudson but with 2 more driving wheels (1 more driving axle). These locomotives were called Northerns by many railroads.
