Just read on FB that #48(30) LSL hit a pick-up truck overnight (around 1 am). Only slight damage to the engine and no injuries onboard. Looks to have happened around South Bend, IN.
#48(30) joins the whack-a-vehicle party :(
- Thread starter AmtrakBlue
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If I were running a state government, I'd start thinking about making plans to eliminate grade crossings, at least on mainline railroads. How to finance it would be a problem, but perhaps reprogramming funds from unneeded freeway projects and also taxing the railroads themselves might do the trick.
Very hard to tax the railroad for a problem they do not create or bear legal responsibility (usually)
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So true. I don't understand the people that make these crazy attempts to beat a train at a grade crossing. You can't wait? You're that impatient? I was just down in south Florida and witnessed a near miss, woman in an SUV at the FEC tracks along US1. I was toward the front at the crossing gates, a long freight was approaching (fast!) and she zipped around the gates anyway. Damn thing nearly got her, could not have missed by much. The unit on the point was blasting his horn steadily, but across she went.
Some freights can take forever, so yes, people get impatient. They don't know that the train MIGHT be a fast passenger train.
I mentioned in another thread how two drivers didn't want to wait for what would be a slow moving freight train (I know the area - and have turned around myself). One driver decided to make a u-turn rather than wait for the train. Unfortunately a driver coming from the other direction decided to "beat the train" and slammed into the car making the u-turn. Both people in the car making the u-turn were killed.
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The thing is, the freights on the FEC line haul ***, they are NOT slow movers. Other lines in central Miami and elsewhere the trains just toodle along, and it takes forever. But this FEC line, even though it parallels a busy US1 the train speed limit is quite fast. I'll bet they're doing 60-70mph they're really cracking on. So even a long freight doesn't take as long to clear. No one should try to beat a train when lights are flashing and/or gates are down.
Qapla
Engineer
People use the same reasoning mentality towards beating trains as they do passing on curves and other no-passing zones and not slowing down in school zones
Do you know every train crossing well enough to know what types of trains (and their speeds) are potentially going to go through? 99.9% of people don't know and don't care. They see tracks and expect a slow moving freight train.
I think the host railroads would be much more agreeable to the idea of eliminating as many crossings as possible and would be willing to outlay a fair amount of the associated costs. Eventhough the railroads normally don’t hold fault in the collisions, that doesn’t stop the participants from suing. Of which, the railroad can have significant legal costs. Not to mention, not having to worry about the headaches of blocking crossings during normal operations and maintenance costs. There have already been significant efforts to close crossings when they see opportunities.
Why? We Americans have paid zillions of dollars in taxes to deal with 9/11, and nobody I know had any responsibility (legal or moral) for flying those planes into the Towers or the Pentagon.
We pay zillions in taxes to make our roads "safer," and yet most of us bear no legal responsibility for for the ***** drivers who pull on-road maneuvers that result in deadly crashes.
It may only be "hard" to tax the railroad because, as a corporation, it has undue political influence over the legislatures that would enact the taxes, but I can't see anything on engraved tablets that came down from Mt. Sinai that says the state can't tax railroads for that purpose.
SubwayNut
Conductor
There is some funding to do that, such as the Indiana Local TRAX program that has fully funded the elimination of 3 grade-crossings (by building two new bridges) on the Lake Shore Route in Elkhart, IN
Eliminating a little used crossing is one thing. For essential crossings the cost to eliminate a grade crossing is high if construction is required (build an over or underpass). But, why not have crossing gates in all 4 quadrants so it’s impossible to drive through without hitting a gate. Sure someone could still run through them but less likely since their car might be damaged.
Railroads generally do not pay for crossing improvements. Since the railroad was almost always there first, it typically up to some local or state government entity to pay for crossings.
As Palmland suggested, there may well be ways to make level grade crossings difficult if not impossible to 'run' to try to beat a train. The idea of cloverleafs in highway construction was designed to deal with drivers who would drive dangerously in highway exchanges despite signs warning them not to do it. So, a physical solution to the problem that makes it virtually impossible to engage in dangerous behavior is worth looking into.
I still find it remarkable that people would chance running around a grade crossing barrier just to save a few minutes of waiting for a train to clear. Surely they aren't rationally calculating the value of their lives by doing so. Then again, people have been known to play Russian roulette, too.
I still find it remarkable that people would chance running around a grade crossing barrier just to save a few minutes of waiting for a train to clear. Surely they aren't rationally calculating the value of their lives by doing so. Then again, people have been known to play Russian roulette, too.
We have issues with freights blocking the major, one-way, east/west corridors in Kalamazoo. Michigan Ave is four lanes heading east, and Kalamazoo Ave is four lanes heading west, so you can imagine the snarl.
When the train is simply passing through, the wait isn't bad, but the trains sometimes perform switching maneuvers that block the corridors for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. To add insult to injury, the trains often come through during rush hour. (There is one that often stops me if I leave the house at 7:30 instead of 7:15.)
In 2019, the city came up with a solution that cost much less money than restructuring all of the crossings. When the crossing lights are activated, there are signs far in advance that start blinking and advise you to use the detour. They are highly visible, long before you even get close to them, which gives you time to prepare to use the alternate route. For those unfamiliar with the alternate route, orange detour signs are posted to help you follow it.
Here is an article if you want to learn more.
https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazo...vers-when-train-blocks-kalamazoo-traffic.html
When the train is simply passing through, the wait isn't bad, but the trains sometimes perform switching maneuvers that block the corridors for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. To add insult to injury, the trains often come through during rush hour. (There is one that often stops me if I leave the house at 7:30 instead of 7:15.)
In 2019, the city came up with a solution that cost much less money than restructuring all of the crossings. When the crossing lights are activated, there are signs far in advance that start blinking and advise you to use the detour. They are highly visible, long before you even get close to them, which gives you time to prepare to use the alternate route. For those unfamiliar with the alternate route, orange detour signs are posted to help you follow it.
Here is an article if you want to learn more.
https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazo...vers-when-train-blocks-kalamazoo-traffic.html
It is never worth it to try to beat a train.
Even if the train itself isn't directly involved in a crossing incident, there's still the matter of other vehicles possibly colliding with each other (as was mentioned above).
As far as freights go, there is a section of NS track between Suffolk & Petersburg, VA where freight trains can travel pretty fast. This is the same line that the inbound & outbound Norfolk NER trains use. One should NEVER assume that a freight train is going to go slowly.
Even if the train itself isn't directly involved in a crossing incident, there's still the matter of other vehicles possibly colliding with each other (as was mentioned above).
As far as freights go, there is a section of NS track between Suffolk & Petersburg, VA where freight trains can travel pretty fast. This is the same line that the inbound & outbound Norfolk NER trains use. One should NEVER assume that a freight train is going to go slowly.
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Glad you asked, AmtrakBlue. Yes, actually I do know the trains and crossings pretty well. I lived in south Florida for the first 60 years of my life. Did lots of train watching at lots of crossings - and as that FEC rail line heads into north Miami/Hollywood, it is cracking on. A north Miami Beach cop friend of mine once told me he clocked them consistently in the 60mph range. On the other hand, freights, TriRail and Amtrak coming down the old Seaboard lines go slower and of course, there's more stops for them to make. You're right though, in that people in general may think freights are going to be slow. Train types don't seem to matter to the risk takers, though - both Amtrak and TriRail frequently hit vehicles at crossings.
west point
Engineer
It is time for loss of driving licenses for anyone caught going around gates. As well maybe trucks need to cover a larger liability train crossing insurance. Another is the ability in pending legislation for Amtrak to sue directly and proceeds go to Amtrak directly instead of the US treasury.
Don't disagree with any if it. But I do want to point out most grade crossing accidents don't involve Amtrak, they involve freight trains. Railroads don't have any restrictions on filing suits and their legal staffs are not shy. The railroads' ability to sue grade crossing violators/their estates does not appear to be a deterrent. With that said, I do support giving Amtrak the ability to try and recoup damages caused by these (likely deceased) idiots by being able to bring action directly.
I would guess that, no, they don't want to wait for those very long freight trains. Now if we could get those gamblers to understand that Amtrak trains aren't long like some of those freight trains, that would probably cut down on the crashes.
Bigpaw
Train Attendant
I was on a train once where a driver ran into the LAST car of the train which made absolutely no sense to me. How could the guy have not seen the whole train going by. Some people just make stupid decisions
ehbowen
Engineer
These drivers ARE stupid, yes. But I can somewhat understand the mentality. Last month I needed to cross the BNSF tracks along Mykawa Rd. at Almeda-Genoa. There are multiple tracks there, with a large container terminal as well as an auto-rack unloading facility to the north. A BNSF freight was dropping segments into one of the terminals and taking his leisurely time about it. He finally stopped just clear of the crossing, but not clear enough to raise the lights and gates, and just parked there for (at least) fifteen minutes.
Of course, cars were threading their way back and forth through the lowered crossing gates heedless of any potential conflict on the other three or four tracks and the BNSF crew were just watching them. I used to live adjacent to the UP tracks along Old Galveston at Howard Drive and UP used to park freights on that main as well. However, when they were there for an extended time, they used to unlock and raise the gates with a key until it was time to proceed. It was really tempting to join the parade of cars through the lowered gates. But, after waiting fifteen minutes with the BNSF crew just sitting there, I made a U-turn and found an alternate route.
Of course, cars were threading their way back and forth through the lowered crossing gates heedless of any potential conflict on the other three or four tracks and the BNSF crew were just watching them. I used to live adjacent to the UP tracks along Old Galveston at Howard Drive and UP used to park freights on that main as well. However, when they were there for an extended time, they used to unlock and raise the gates with a key until it was time to proceed. It was really tempting to join the parade of cars through the lowered gates. But, after waiting fifteen minutes with the BNSF crew just sitting there, I made a U-turn and found an alternate route.
