#48(30) joins the whack-a-vehicle party :(

[BlackDiamond]

But, why not have crossing gates in all 4 quadrants so it’s impossible to drive through without hitting a gate. Sure someone could still run through them but less likely since their car might be damaged.

They would need some way to detect a car in the crossing so that the gates do not trap a car that happens to be in the crossing when the gates come down. I believe there are crossings in the Northeast that do this.

 

[MARC Rider]

I would guess that, no, they don't want to wait for those very long freight trains. Now if we could get those gamblers to understand that Amtrak trains aren't long like some of those freight trains, that would probably cut down on the crashes.

The problem is, when the gates go down, the lights start flashing and the bells start ringing, the driver doesn't know whether it's a 200 car long freight creeping along, or a 10 car Amtrak zipping by at 79 mph. And so they assume the worst and try to race the train. Somehow our society needs to teach people to chill out, not be so impatient, just wait. Everybody is in too much of a hurry. I'm not sure how we can change attitudes and our culture, though.

 

[Qapla]

Somehow our society needs to teach people to chill out, not be so impatient, just wait. Everybody is in too much of a hurry. I'm not sure how we can change attitudes and our culture, though.

The same can be said of those who think the only comparison between using passenger rail and air for travel is based on the speed of the trip ... a mentality that has been expressed on this board a number of times.

 

[MARC Rider]

The same can be said of those who think the only comparison between using passenger rail and air for travel is based on the speed of the trip ... a mentality that has been expressed on this board a number of times.

Oh I agree, but it's even worse in the case of people driving locally --- their rushing around and impatience doesn't even save them that much time. A 10 mile commute at 60 mph will take 10 minutes. The same distance driven at 50 mph takes 12 minutes. At least it's clear that a 6 hour transcontinental flight, even adding travel time to and from the airport and airport formalities at both ends of the flight is faster than a 60+ hour train trip. Even a 4 hour door to door flying trip from Washington to Boston is faster than the 6 hour 30 minute trip on the Acela. (But I find the Acela less stressful.)

 

[west point]

The posters here seem to not understand that a train in the distance from a crossing could either be a passenger or freight. Even a 50 - 100 feet from crossing I cannot tell if freight or passenger unless track behind loco(s) is curved towards me enabling consist of rest of train.

 

[CCC1007]

The posters here seem to not understand that a train in the distance from a crossing could either be a passenger or freight. Even a 50 - 100 feet from crossing I cannot tell if freight or passenger unless track behind loco(s) is curved towards me enabling consist of rest of train.

This is helped when light patterns for headlights can be seen... Amtrak locomotives (P42's) have a distinctive horizontal line of 2 lights in the upper center of the front of the cab. This differentiates them from more modern freight locomotives, which have 2 vertical lights.





Image credit to Wikimedia Commons...

 

[John819]

They would need some way to detect a car in the crossing so that the gates do not trap a car that happens to be in the crossing when the gates come down. I believe there are crossings in the Northeast that do this.

Except for three crossings on a curve where the track limit is 30 mph, the few remaining grade crossings on the NEC have quad gates with an induction loop sensor. If the sensor detects a vehicle in the crossing after the gates close, it sends a signal to the train so that the brakes can be applied. Not sure if the application is full service or emergency.

 

[MARC Rider]

The posters here seem to not understand that a train in the distance from a crossing could either be a passenger or freight. Even a 50 - 100 feet from crossing I cannot tell if freight or passenger unless track behind loco(s) is curved towards me enabling consist of rest of train.

It really doesn't matter whether the train that's going to total your car is a passenger or a freight train. Both kinds of trains have a lot more mass than the car, so either way, you're toast. The train we rode on the South Shore that destroyed the car (and the driver in it) that went around the gates didn't even have a locomotive, it was a relatively lightweight EMU.

Basically, if the gates are down, or you see a train, stop and let it go by. They are all bigger than you are.

 

[MARC Rider]

Except for three crossings on a curve where the track limit is 30 mph,

Are those the ones leading to the ferry terminal in New London?

 

[John Santos]

This is helped when light patterns for headlights can be seen... Amtrak locomotives (P42's) have a distinctive horizontal line of 2 lights in the upper center of the front of the cab. This differentiates them from more modern freight locomotives, which have 2 vertical lights.

View attachment 25304

View attachment 25305

Image credit to Wikimedia Commons...

Do they teach locomotive headlight patterns in Driver's Ed? I don't think so.

 

[Cal]

The posters here seem to not understand that a train in the distance from a crossing could either be a passenger or freight. Even a 50 - 100 feet from crossing I cannot tell if freight or passenger unless track behind loco(s) is curved towards me enabling consist of rest of train.

Personally I can usually tell a fairly far distance away based as in many cases I can see part of the engine, or by the headlights (Metrolink F125 and Amtrak Charger headlights are much brighter and whiter than any freight locomotive I've seen -- Diesel locomotives can be tougher to figure out). However, it's very easy to understand how someone would not make that different or would even be paying attention.

 

[Willbridge]

Oregon DOT has had a crossing safety program since the 1970's, maybe earlier with less recognition. They find funding in all sorts of ways, including from the railways. They try for a systematic approach, looking at a whole segment of a rail line and then develop proposed improvements that may include closing some crossings and/or raising rail speed limits. Getting rid of crossing maintenance or smoothing out speed restrictions in cooperation with the PUC has economic value and so the railway companies will contribute.

In ODOT's 2021 safety plan: 2021_Oregon_TSAP.pdf

Strategy 2.3.9 – Continue to plan, design, and implement best practices for rail safety program and systems management, particularly rail crossings.

However, this all depends on funding. The long-term success of the program means that when the safety plan was being developed there were other types of accidents that are far more frequent. The best way of getting more crossing protection is in the Federal budget for their contribution. I suspect that most states have a backlog of prioritized crossing projects waiting for funding.

It is possible to get things done on a systematic approach. My 98-year old father likes to remind me that otherwise the Coast Starlight would be running in auto and truck traffic on 12th Street in Salem, as the SP did before a mile of crossings was re-engineered.

 

[Railspike]

Where "No Train Horn" signs are posted at crossings there are 2 gates on each side of the tracks blocking both lanes of traffic. This seems to be effective from stopping vehicles from going around the gates. While this would be very expensive for railroads to erect at every crossing, they could erect them at busy thoroughfares whether it was a "No Train Horn" zone or not. Just a thought.

 

[John819]

Are those the ones leading to the ferry terminal in New London?

I think they are.

 

[DetroitDave]

We have issues with freights blocking the major, one-way, east/west corridors in Kalamazoo. Michigan Ave is four lanes heading east, and Kalamazoo Ave is four lanes heading west, so you can imagine the snarl.

When the train is simply passing through, the wait isn't bad, but the trains sometimes perform switching maneuvers that block the corridors for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. To add insult to injury, the trains often come through during rush hour. (There is one that often stops me if I leave the house at 7:30 instead of 7:15.)

In 2019, the city came up with a solution that cost much less money than restructuring all of the crossings. When the crossing lights are activated, there are signs far in advance that start blinking and advise you to use the detour. They are highly visible, long before you even get close to them, which gives you time to prepare to use the alternate route. For those unfamiliar with the alternate route, orange detour signs are posted to help you follow it.

View attachment 25251

Here is an article if you want to learn more.

https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazo...vers-when-train-blocks-kalamazoo-traffic.html

Indeed! Working in Kalamazoo this past year I was very happy (and impressed) this system was setup. I've seen similar in other cities but for Kzoo...it's a lifesaver. For a long time I felt Canton and Westland, MI could use this.

 

[SubwayNut]

Downtown Elkhart (by the Amtrak station) on Main Street has a sign with a blinking light that tells motorists to use the Benham Avenue underpass one block away when a train is blocking it.

 

[basketmaker]

The thing is, the freights on the FEC line haul ***, they are NOT slow movers. Other lines in central Miami and elsewhere the trains just toodle along, and it takes forever. But this FEC line, even though it parallels a busy US1 the train speed limit is quite fast. I'll bet they're doing 60-70mph they're really cracking on. So even a long freight doesn't take as long to clear. No one should try to beat a train when lights are flashing and/or gates are down.

Oh I remember FEC way back when when they weren't fast. At least crossing Red Road in Hialeah. Caught many of them back then. Most getting up to speed coming out of the Miami Springs Yard crossing the ol' trestle over the canal.

 

[basketmaker]

Same idiots blowing the gates are probably the same ones that bitched and moaned about train horns thus creating "Quiet Zones". And suggest the trains should be moved somewhere else. They moved into a neighborhood built within the last 10 years and complain about something that has been here for 100+ years. Seen many complaints from people within a 1-mile radius of me grumping they had to wait or the train woke them up to the City Council. City is looking at the possibility of an overpass at one crossing. But that will cost $millions of our property tax dollars (which is one of the highest in the state).

 

[Bob Dylan]

Same idiots blowing the gates are probably the same ones that bitched and moaned about train horns thus creating "Quiet Zones". And suggest the trains should be moved somewhere else. They moved into a neighborhood built within the last 10 years and complain about something that has been here for 100+ years. Seen many complaints from people within a 1-mile radius of me grumping they had to wait or the train woke them up to the City Council. City is looking at the possibility of an overpass at one crossing. But that will cost $millions of our property tax dollars (which is one of the highest in the state).

My hometown, which had 2 Railroads ( Mopac and Katy) running through it, talked about building Overpasses starting in the early 1950s, they were finally built in 1990s and early 2000s.

For years every crossing in town was blocked several times a day by Passenger and Freight Trains, with the Hospital on one side of the tracks, and the Police Station on the other, which caused some real tragedies.

 

[John819]

On the LIRR there was a grade crossing on the Ronkonkama line at Willis Avenue. There were multiple "interactions" between the trains and road vehicles, but nothing was done. Then a car with four teenagers got hit, all were killed, and one was, I believe, the daughter of some politician. Miraculously, an overpass was built within a year.

 

[basketmaker]

On the LIRR there was a grade crossing on the Ronkonkama line at Willis Avenue. There were multiple "interactions" between the trains and road vehicles, but nothing was done. Then a car with four teenagers got hit, all were killed, and one was, I believe, the daughter of some politician. Miraculously, an overpass was built within a year.

Similar situation when I lived on a CSX main just southeast of Nashville. Four teens late for school got hit and killed at a small 2-lane neighborhood crossing with just crossbucks. Lights and crossing gates were put up a couple weeks later. No room for an overpass without razing several long time homes. Even after the lights/gates there were two more "interactions" with injuries trying to beat the train that I remember.

 

[zephyr17]

The problem is, when the gates go down, the lights start flashing and the bells start ringing, the driver doesn't know whether it's a 200 car long freight creeping along, or a 10 car Amtrak zipping by at 79 mph. And so they assume the worst and try to race the train. Somehow our society needs to teach people to chill out, not be so impatient, just wait. Everybody is in too much of a hurry. I'm not sure how we can change attitudes and our culture, though.

That ought to make no difference unless the driver is an *****. Oh, wait...

 

[basketmaker]

My hometown, which had 2 Railroads ( Mopac and Katy) running through it, talked about building Overpasses starting in the early 1950s, they were finally built in 1990s and early 2000s.

For years every crossing in town was blocked several times a day by Passenger and Freight Trains, with the Hospital on one side of the tracks, and the Police Station on the other, which caused some real tragedies.

We have BNSF (Brush Sub) and UP (Greeley Sub) nearby. Luckily there are fire stations and hospitals on both sides and pretty good police (both city and county) coverage also. The more troublesome is the UP as there is a new automobile intake facility that is nearby by and some of the new car trains are very long and take some time to creep into it. And when the empties come out a bit of "making up" the consists requires backward/forward movements. But those are usually done late at night to avoid impeding traffic too bad at a couple of crossings. Have seen and heard of the isolation issues around the country. But have heard of any EMS delays here.

 

[me_little_me]

This is helped when light patterns for headlights can be seen... Amtrak locomotives (P42's) have a distinctive horizontal line of 2 lights in the upper center of the front of the cab. This differentiates them from more modern freight locomotives, which have 2 vertical lights.

Like one in a million people would remember that. Heck not even half the people use directional signals.

 

[alpha3]

=

Oh I remember FEC way back when when they weren't fast. At least crossing Red Road in Hialeah. Caught many of them back then. Most getting up to speed coming out of the Miami Springs Yard crossing the ol' trestle over the canal.

Oh man, for sure! Funny, I lived a couple of blocks from that crossing in Miami Springs. Yea, they'd come chugging out of there, cross the trestle over the canal just barely starting to pickup speed, it used to make for horrible traffic backups on Okeechobee road before they lowered the roadway so it didn't matter anymore.