97/06 stuck at RVR

[Anderson]

I am on the internet while on the Silver Meteor and we're not in either WAS or NYP. This is not a good sign to start with...

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

 

[RampWidget]

Spotters haven't mentioned anything about a derailment, but there are reports of a coal train striking a trespasser about 3 miles south of the James River Bridge and the times of that incident (2130-0045) looks like they match up with your delay on 97(6).

 

[gdj]

The local press is reporting that this incident occurred at 9:30. This made it very close to the Silver Meteor's departure from RVR. The local tv showed pictures of coal cars. This crossing is in an area where the trains are allowed to operate at speed. Witnesses indicated that all the signals worked properly. The person just walked out in front of the train.

 

[pennyk]

I am on the internet while on the Silver Meteor and we're not in either WAS or NYP. This is not a good sign to start with...
Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

Are you on your way to Florida? The weather has greatly improved since yesterday. I can see the sun in the "sunshine state."

 

[amamba]

Sorry to hear about your delay and the unfortunate death (maybe suicide?).

 

[user 1215]

I am on the internet while on the Silver Meteor and we're not in either WAS or NYP. This is not a good sign to start with...

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

Are you on your way to Florida? The weather has greatly improved since yesterday. I can see the sun in the "sunshine state."

HA! When I lived in Kissimmee and worked for MM, I called it the "Some-Shine" State!

 

[afigg]

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

As noted, it was due to a CSX trespasser fatality. Amtrak does not break out delays due to grade crossing collisions and trespasser incidents in the on-time performance reports, probably for good reason as they don't want to draw unneeded bad publicity. Still, because these incidents usually cause the line to close for several hours, affecting not only the train involved, but all the other trains that get stopped and wait for the line to re-open. More grade crossing separations, better gates, quad gates, gates at private crossings, more fencing to keep people from walking across the tracks should lead to fewer of these incidents over time. One way to improve OTP.
If you are traveling on #97, so April 2013 MPR summary for a while? The April report was ugly for ridership; I may post a summary in a day or so.

 

[pennyk]

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

If you are traveling on #97, so April 2013 MPR summary for a while? The April report was ugly for ridership; I may post a summary in a day or so.

I think a lot of 97's delays in April were due to SunRail construction in Central Florida.

 

[afigg]

I think a lot of 97's delays in April were due to SunRail construction in Central Florida.

The SunRail construction has been causing delays for the Silvers north and southbound for close to a year or longer. The April monthly report was ugly for ridership declines across the board, more than be accounted for by Easter falling on the last day of March this year. But that is best left to an April report thread.

 

[Anderson]

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

As noted, it was due to a CSX trespasser fatality. Amtrak does not break out delays due to grade crossing collisions and trespasser incidents in the on-time performance reports, probably for good reason as they don't want to draw unneeded bad publicity. Still, because these incidents usually cause the line to close for several hours, affecting not only the train involved, but all the other trains that get stopped and wait for the line to re-open. More grade crossing separations, better gates, quad gates, gates at private crossings, more fencing to keep people from walking across the tracks should lead to fewer of these incidents over time. One way to improve OTP.
If you are traveling on #97, so April 2013 MPR summary for a while? The April report was ugly for ridership; I may post a summary in a day or so.

You're right, it was a trespasser not a derailment. Sorry...I was tired at the time of posting.

I'm now down in FL, so I'll try to get a report on April up ASAP.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Basically, the train pulled into RVR on time, we boarded. We're still there, so I'm on the Wifi from the Regional parked by the station. Derailment further south; we've already lost almost 2:30 and we're still in park.

As noted, it was due to a CSX trespasser fatality. Amtrak does not break out delays due to grade crossing collisions and trespasser incidents in the on-time performance reports, probably for good reason as they don't want to draw unneeded bad publicity. Still, because these incidents usually cause the line to close for several hours, affecting not only the train involved, but all the other trains that get stopped and wait for the line to re-open. More grade crossing separations, better gates, quad gates, gates at private crossings, more fencing to keep people from walking across the tracks should lead to fewer of these incidents over time. One way to improve OTP.
If you are traveling on #97, so April 2013 MPR summary for a while? The April report was ugly for ridership; I may post a summary in a day or so.

You're right, it was a trespasser not a derailment. Sorry...I was tired at the time of posting.

I'm now down in FL, so I'll try to get a report on April up ASAP.

Anderson: You need to change your AU Profile where it say you Live in Virginia and just put "Amtrak!" Seems like you spend more time on LD Trains than Anyone Else, Must be Nice, we're Envious! (And are you using the First Class Package @ Penny's Bed and Breakfast in Orlando? :giggle: )

 

[Anderson]

*laughs*
I might just do that on my profile. Then again, I use VIA enough that "On a train!" might be more accurate...I think I'm averaging 20-25 nights per year on LD trains (it really depends if you count crashing on the Meteor RVR-NYP as a "night", since I have done that way too much). To be fair, it's largely a function of having family/friends to crash with at the "other end" of a lot of trips, so the train is most of the expense of the trip (if I pay cash) or the trip becomes pretty cheap (if I'm using points...let's face it, a nine-day vacation with most meals included for $300 plus tips and activities, which I can pull off counting some short paid Amtrak legs, is not a bad deal). The one caveat is that a lot of this was enabled because of a bunch of expensive dental work.

And I'm actually visiting a friend (on the 'net at his law office right now)...lol. I really need to ping Penny when I'm coming down here so I can visit her (and not get lost passing her on the train), since I think these FL trips are going to remain somewhat common for the foreseeable future.

 

[PaulM]

Can anyone explain to me why trespasser incidents cause such long delays. I know they need to investigate but what does that have to do with the train. The railroad could pass out a placard to engineers with

I was going ______ MPH

I saw someone on the tracks about _____ feet ahead

I did/did not lay on the horn

I did/did not slam on the breaks.

I hit someone.

The victim is/is not my brother-in-law with whom I've been feuding.

Seriously, why does this take the 4 or 5 hours that everyone seems to accept as normal. They certainly don't leave the victim lying on the tracks all that time.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Can anyone explain to me why trespasser incidents cause such long delays. I know they need to investigate but what does that have to do with the train. The railroad could pass out a placard to engineers with
I was going ______ MPH

I saw someone on the tracks about _____ feet ahead

I did/did not lay on the horn

I did/did not slam on the breaks.

I hit someone.

The victim is/is not my brother-in-law with whom I've been feuding.

Seriously, why does this take the 4 or 5 hours that everyone seems to accept as normal. They certainly don't leave the victim lying on the tracks all that time.

If it's a death investigation, the local medical examiners office is in charge. Not to mention the local police, railroad police, etc. In addition, operating train crew members must be taken off duty for drug testing, etc., and replaced by a new crew. I was on a Metra Electric train that hit and killed a woman who walked in front of the train to commit suicide.(This was in an area that had no legal pedestrian access, so there wasn't much doubt.) We were probably delayed 2 to 21/2 hours (and for most of that time all traffic on adjacent tracks was also stopped). The crew had to be replaced. The replacement conductor must have been working in the yard prior to the accident since he was dressed in coveralls rather than in uniform. Somebody died. You have to take that seriously. Also, if you were the engineer you probably wouldn't want to keep working.

 

[Ryan]

I believe that the crew is given the option of being relieved, but it isn't mandatory.

 

[amamba]

I don't blame the crew for wanting to be relieved.

 

[OBS]

I believe that the crew is given the option of being relieved, but it isn't mandatory.

Correct, at least on Amtrak. Also when you get into some areas of the country, where "incidents are not common, the local police/investigators tend to make a bigger production out of things than is probably necessary. Of course then there is the story of many years ago when the crew of the Vermonter struck and killed a tresspasser, and the local police officer wanted to arrest the engineer for killing someone...

 

[RampWidget]

Not to mention the local police, railroad police, etc. In addition, operating train crew members must be taken off duty for drug testing, etc., and replaced by a new crew.

FRA regulations specifically prohibit drug and alcohol testing of railroad crews involved in crossing accidents & trespasser strikes, even those involving fatalities. The only exception would be if a member of the crew actually exhibited signs & symptoms of being impaired.

 

[Ryan]

Of course then there is the story of many years ago when the crew of the Vermonter struck and killed a tresspasser, and the local police officer wanted to arrest the engineer for killing someone...

I would say "surely you can't be serious", but sadly I'm unsurprised that a cop would be that screwed up.

 

[RampWidget]

I believe that the crew is given the option of being relieved, but it isn't mandatory.

True, and that is the case on all the major RRs and a great number of regionals/shortlines also. The major RRs all have employee assistance personnel that reach out to employees involved in these incidents to see if they require additional time off, counseling, etc.

 

[RampWidget]

If it's a death investigation, the local medical examiners office is in charge. Not to mention the local police, railroad police, etc.

You are exactly right. Many jurisdictions treat the incident as a crime scene and investigate accordingly. It can take an unbelievably long time. Three to four hours is a bit long, but not outside the norm.

 

[jis]

It depends a lot on how often such events are experienced in that locality and how readily a coroner is available.

On the NEC, where several hundred of these events take place each year, some times more than one in a single day, mostly the local authorities are well organized to deal with it, and a typical delay is around 2 hours give or take. Also Amtrak is better able to deal with such by cross transfering passengers to the next train headed the same way, or even transfer to a local commuter train to get passengers on their way even sooner.

OTOH, if you are out in the sticks and the coroner is an hour away, well, you are sort of stuck.

Last time I was on a train involved in a trespasser strike was within the last two months, and there is a thread somewhere in here with the blow by blow of what happened in that. It was near Bristol PA. Amtrak was very quick in opening up all unaffected tracks, and even managed to transfer two thirds of the 800 or so passengers on the train to other trains. As it turned out the coroner and police finished their work before any further transfer was required and released the train about two hours into the event. Amtrak was quite ready to transfer the balance of the passengers onto the next train coming by (an Acela) if that were necessary but as it turned out it was not.

Another time for an event between Hamilton and Trenton, they transferred the entire train onto an NJT deadhead move that happened to be passing by and got everyone to Trenton, where the passengers were accommodated on Amtrak trains heading the same way, by even adding unscheduled stops for some.

The other extreme was one time in a suicide event at New Brunswick station involving an Acela, where as reported "the nature of the injuries were such that all four tracks had to be embargoed for the coroner to complete their work"; the entire railroad was shut down for over three hours, and they had to basically cordon off the station. That was pretty nasty.

But the bottom line is that in general the work is completed expeditiously with an attempt to minimize impact on operations.

 

[Ryan]

"the nature of the injuries were such that all four tracks had to be embargoed for the coroner to complete their work"

 

[PaulM]

So far the only response to my question that makes any sense, to me anyway, is the need to relieve the crew; and I realize that can take a while. The bit about police and coroner is obvious, but begs the question. Maybe I should have rephrased my question to ask why the authorities hold the train for so long.

 

[Bob Dylan]

So far the only response to my question that makes any sense, to me anyway, is the need to relieve the crew; and I realize that can take a while. The bit about police and coroner is obvious, but begs the question. Maybe I should have rephrased my question to ask why the authorities hold the train for so long.

"In the heat of the Night"/"Reno 911"/Barney Fife/the Dodge Sheriff etc. Some of these folks aren't the Sharpest Arrows in the Quiver Paul! And lots of the So Called Medical Examiners/Coroners/JPs are Political Hacks with NO Training or Expertise! And as they say in Alabama in the Summer, "Whats the Rush, it'll still be Hot Tomorrow!" <_<