A Tale of Two Cities

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caravanman

Engineer
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
4,839
Location
Nottingham, England.
A TALE OF TWO CITIES…

Being keen to continue my local travel mini-adventures, and spotting a reduced price deal on the Eurostar service, I jumped at the offer!
(Well, at my age it wasn’t a very high jump, more of a slight twitch, but you get my drift…)

Living in Nottingham, 2+ hours north of London, I booked my connecting train from here to allow plenty of time to “check in” at St. Pancras station in London itself, which is the UK Terminus for the Eurostar service.
There are various options here in the UK with advance purchase local tickets. One can obtain discounts, but are then obliged to travel only that particular train. Higher priced tickets offer more flexibility, but oddly, I seem to be allergic to paying higher prices…

The local timetables altered a week after I bought my ticket, and I received an email alerting me to check for any changes to my Nottingham train departure time. I did, and noticed that my train was now about 15 minutes earlier.

Long story short, (this is short?) it transpired that my train time had not altered, and I mistakenly boarded an earlier train that my ticket was not valid for! Happily, the person checking tickets was in a good mood, and accepted that I had made a genuine mistake, so let me travel without any surcharge.

I do love St. Pancras station! Lovely arched canopy, ancient ironwork still doing a great job today.
Poet John Betjeman has a statue here too, a supporter of trains and a campaigner to preserve St. Pancras when threatened with demolition, back in the day.

St Pancras.jpg

One has to wait to enter the Eurostar section of the station, and are only admitted with enough time to pass through the security scanners, and passport controls for both UK and France just before your train is due to depart. The previous departure to mine was delayed, so there were many people crammed into the waiting area. Quite unpleasant, with people even sitting on the floors, due to lack of seats.

Our train was finally called, so up the escalators to platform level. Sad to find that I had a rear facing seat, but that was offset somewhat by being seated at a table.

St. Pancras station is to the north of London, so in some ways an odd place to start out towards the south coast from. The original Eurostar terminus was Waterloo Station, in south London. The Eurostar ran on mostly conventional commuter track from the tunnel up to Waterloo station, so had to observe regular track speeds. In order to speed things up, a complete new high speed line was constructed from St. Pancras which opened in 2007.

Whizzing along backwards through miles of tunnel under London is not as much fun as one might think, but we were soon out in the daylight again, before entering the Channel Tunnel itself.

This train made no stops between London and Paris. There were a couple of stations built in the UK for the service, but it seems Brexit and the new passport checks rendered them obsolete!

I had been to Paris previously, but had always travelled onwards from the Gare du Nord by metro. On this trip, I was staying in the area near the station. Gosh, quite surprised to find myself in “Little India”! Many Indian restaurants and businesses of all types, a busy and thriving environment.

I walked to my accommodation, a nice purpose built hostel, without getting lost for once! Happily I was assigned a lower bunk bed, and was told that breakfasts were included in the price, which I hadn’t realised. A nice “green” hostel of interesting construction, they opened the common areas to the wider community for board games, music, and so on. They even had a bar, so what’s not to like…

church and locks1.jpg

I had no real objective to achieve on this short visit, it was just nice to experience life away from home for a few days. Next morning, after breakfast, yes, coffee and croissant, I walked up to the Sacre-Coeur church for the views over Paris. Gosh, all those steps were a challenge! When I was last here, the touts were all selling Eiffel Tower statuettes and similar. This time all they were pushing were “love-locks”. Every metal fence outside the church was festooned with these padlocks! Lots of romance in Paris, it seems…
I grabbed a distant view of the Eiffel Tower from up here, that’s near enough for this visit.

The Montmartre area adjacent is very lively, lots of stalls with artists selling their paintings, and folk sitting at pavement cafes, happily people watching in the sunshine.

artists.jpg


I walked down to have a look at the Moulin Rouge Cabaret building, but unfortunately the iconic windmill decoration atop, fell down in high winds, a couple of months ago!

When planning the trip, I watched a youtube channel called “Les Frenchies” to remind myself of how to obtain Paris metro tickets, and for other tips. By coincidence, I noticed the couple who run it nearby when at the Moulin Rouge and said hello, when they had finished filming.

A slow walk back to the hostel, a pint or two before bedtime, and that was my day out in Paris!

I was up early the next morning, and enjoyed sitting in the hostel garden area while the world around me woke up.

auberge.jpg

Another coffee and croissant breakfast, check out, and a slow walk back to the Gare du Nord for my return journey.

nord ext.jpg

I do like the continental station destination boards, the names just sound so exotic, compared to those back home!

destinations.jpg

Similar situation in Paris, one has to wait to pass into the Eurostar area, then bags are scanned and passports checked. There are automatic “E-gates” in Paris for the passports, but none yet in London. Much less crowded in the waiting hall also.

mezanine view..jpg

An interesting French guy as seating companion on the return journey, so the time passed quickly.

The journey down from Nottingham cost me £19, but the ticket back would be £35, as it was getting towards the expensive rush hour fares time of day. Bright idea, I will book a coach from Victoria Coach station back to Nottingham instead at a cost of just £10. I can use my old folks bus pass to catch just one bus from outside St. Pancras station all the way to Victoria.

That was the plan and it worked well until I remembered just how convoluted the route was, how
s-l-o-w the bus moved, and yes, I managed to miss my coach. Next coach to Nottingham is in 1 hour, fare is £25! I am not quite sure what lesson I have learnt from that experience, but once my humiliation fades I am sure I will draw the correct conclusions!

The normal Eurostar fares are quite high these days, I was delighted to travel to Paris and back with a sale price for only £35 each way. The need to be at the stations so early nowadays to check in, and the overcrowding, did take a little of the shine off the experience, but it still made a great mini-adventure!

Link to Eurostar High Speed Line Construction info:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/30/transport.world
 
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Your Eurostar departure experience at St. Pancras mirrors my most recent ones. It always seems like the crowds are mostly going in one direction, with the returns more organized and not overly crowded. My theory is that international travelers, particularly those from this side of the pond, have discovered the huge cost saving in taking the Eurostar to Amsterdam, Brussels or Paris to fly home rather than pay the substantial departure taxes from England. For us, the saving on one ticket from LHR was enough to pay for two in Eurostar Premier and connecting from Eurostar to any of those airports is easy.
 
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A TALE OF TWO CITIES…

Being keen to continue my local travel mini-adventures, and spotting a reduced price deal on the Eurostar service, I jumped at the offer!
(Well, at my age it wasn’t a very high jump, more of a slight twitch, but you get my drift…)

Living in Nottingham, 2+ hours north of London, I booked my connecting train from here to allow plenty of time to “check in” at St. Pancras station in London itself, which is the UK Terminus for the Eurostar service.
There are various options here in the UK with advance purchase local tickets. One can obtain discounts, but are then obliged to travel only that particular train. Higher priced tickets offer more flexibility, but oddly, I seem to be allergic to paying higher prices…

The local timetables altered a week after I bought my ticket, and I received an email alerting me to check for any changes to my Nottingham train departure time. I did, and noticed that my train was now about 15 minutes earlier.

Long story short, (this is short?) it transpired that my train time had not altered, and I mistakenly boarded an earlier train that my ticket was not valid for! Happily, the person checking tickets was in a good mood, and accepted that I had made a genuine mistake, so let me travel without any surcharge.

I do love St. Pancras station! Lovely arched canopy, ancient ironwork still doing a great job today.
Poet John Betjeman has a statue here too, a supporter of trains and a campaigner to preserve St. Pancras when threatened with demolition, back in the day.

View attachment 36967

One has to wait to enter the Eurostar section of the station, and are only admitted with enough time to pass through the security scanners, and passport controls for both UK and France just before your train is due to depart. The previous departure to mine was delayed, so there were many people crammed into the waiting area. Quite unpleasant, with people even sitting on the floors, due to lack of seats.

Our train was finally called, so up the escalators to platform level. Sad to find that I had a rear facing seat, but that was offset somewhat by being seated at a table.

St. Pancras station is to the north of London, so in some ways an odd place to start out towards the south coast from. The original Eurostar terminus was Waterloo Station, in south London. The Eurostar ran on mostly conventional commuter track from the tunnel up to Waterloo station, so had to observe regular track speeds. In order to speed things up, a complete new high speed line was constructed from St. Pancras which opened in 2007.

Whizzing along backwards through miles of tunnel under London is not as much fun as one might think, but we were soon out in the daylight again, before entering the Channel Tunnel itself.

This train made no stops between London and Paris. There were a couple of stations built in the UK for the service, but it seems Brexit and the new passport checks rendered them obsolete!

I had been to Paris previously, but had always travelled onwards from the Gare du Nord by metro. On this trip, I was staying in the area near the station. Gosh, quite surprised to find myself in “Little India”! Many Indian restaurants and businesses of all types, a busy and thriving environment.

I walked to my accommodation, a nice purpose built hostel, without getting lost for once! Happily I was assigned a lower bunk bed, and was told that breakfasts were included in the price, which I hadn’t realised. A nice “green” hostel of interesting construction, they opened the common areas to the wider community for board games, music, and so on. They even had a bar, so what’s not to like…

View attachment 36968

I had no real objective to achieve on this short visit, it was just nice to experience life away from home for a few days. Next morning, after breakfast, yes, coffee and croissant, I walked up to the Sacre-Coeur church for the views over Paris. Gosh, all those steps were a challenge! When I was last here, the touts were all selling Eiffel Tower statuettes and similar. This time all they were pushing were “love-locks”. Every metal fence outside the church was festooned with these padlocks! Lots of romance in Paris, it seems…
I grabbed a distant view of the Eiffel Tower from up here, that’s near enough for this visit.

The Montmartre area adjacent is very lively, lots of stalls with artists selling their paintings, and folk sitting at pavement cafes, happily people watching in the sunshine.

View attachment 36969


I walked down to have a look at the Moulin Rouge Cabaret building, but unfortunately the iconic windmill decoration atop, fell down in high winds, a couple of months ago!

When planning the trip, I watched a youtube channel called “Les Frenchies” to remind myself of how to obtain Paris metro tickets, and for other tips. By coincidence, I noticed the couple who run it nearby when at the Moulin Rouge and said hello, when they had finished filming.

A slow walk back to the hostel, a pint or two before bedtime, and that was my day out in Paris!

I was up early the next morning, and enjoyed sitting in the hostel garden area while the world around me woke up.

View attachment 36973

Another coffee and croissant breakfast, check out, and a slow walk back to the Gare du Nord for my return journey.

View attachment 36970

I do like the continental station destination boards, the names just sound so exotic, compared to those back home!

View attachment 36971

Similar situation in Paris, one has to wait to pass into the Eurostar area, then bags are scanned and passports checked. There are automatic “E-gates” in Paris for the passports, but none yet in London. Much less crowded in the waiting hall also.

View attachment 36972

An interesting French guy as seating companion on the return journey, so the time passed quickly.

The journey down from Nottingham cost me £19, but the ticket back would be £35, as it was getting towards the expensive rush hour fares time of day. Bright idea, I will book a coach from Victoria Coach station back to Nottingham instead at a cost of just £10. I can use my old folks bus pass to catch just one bus from outside St. Pancras station all the way to Victoria.

That was the plan and it worked well until I remembered just how convoluted the route was, how
s-l-o-w the bus moved, and yes, I managed to miss my coach. Next coach to Nottingham is in 1 hour, fare is £25! I am not quite sure what lesson I have learnt from that experience, but once my humiliation fades I am sure I will draw the correct conclusions!

The normal Eurostar fares are quite high these days, I was delighted to travel to Paris and back with a sale price for only £35 each way. The need to be at the stations so early nowadays to check in, and the overcrowding, did take a little of the shine off the experience, but it still made a great mini-adventure!

Link to Eurostar High Speed Line Construction info:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/30/transport.world
A lot to be gained by going along on this trip with you. Very interesting, I enjoyed it.
 
Your Eurostar departure experience at St. Pancras mirrors my most recent ones. It always seems like the crowds are mostly going in one direction, with the returns more organized and not overly crowded. My theory is that international travelers, particularly those from this side of the pond, have discovered the huge cost saving in taking the Eurostar to Amsterdam, Brussels or Paris to fly home rather than pay the substantial departure taxes from England. For us, the saving on one ticket from LHR was enough to pay for two in Eurostar Premier and connecting from Eurostar to any of those airports is easy.
I think the real reason for the congestion at the London end is probably because there are only Eurostar trains departing, for Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam from St. Pancras. Whereas, there are many more non Eurostar options to travel between Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam.
I was slightly reluctant to post my trip, as I am still in awe of your "tour de force" shown by your recent visit to Europe!
Glad you managed to save some cash by departing from non UK airports, I will use Dublin to visit America if I go again...
 
A TALE OF TWO CITIES…

Being keen to continue my local travel mini-adventures, and spotting a reduced price deal on the Eurostar service, I jumped at the offer!
(Well, at my age it wasn’t a very high jump, more of a slight twitch, but you get my drift…)

Living in Nottingham, 2+ hours north of London, I booked my connecting train from here to allow plenty of time to “check in” at St. Pancras station in London itself, which is the UK Terminus for the Eurostar service.
There are various options here in the UK with advance purchase local tickets. One can obtain discounts, but are then obliged to travel only that particular train. Higher priced tickets offer more flexibility, but oddly, I seem to be allergic to paying higher prices…

The local timetables altered a week after I bought my ticket, and I received an email alerting me to check for any changes to my Nottingham train departure time. I did, and noticed that my train was now about 15 minutes earlier.

Long story short, (this is short?) it transpired that my train time had not altered, and I mistakenly boarded an earlier train that my ticket was not valid for! Happily, the person checking tickets was in a good mood, and accepted that I had made a genuine mistake, so let me travel without any surcharge.

I do love St. Pancras station! Lovely arched canopy, ancient ironwork still doing a great job today.
Poet John Betjeman has a statue here too, a supporter of trains and a campaigner to preserve St. Pancras when threatened with demolition, back in the day.

View attachment 36967

One has to wait to enter the Eurostar section of the station, and are only admitted with enough time to pass through the security scanners, and passport controls for both UK and France just before your train is due to depart. The previous departure to mine was delayed, so there were many people crammed into the waiting area. Quite unpleasant, with people even sitting on the floors, due to lack of seats.

Our train was finally called, so up the escalators to platform level. Sad to find that I had a rear facing seat, but that was offset somewhat by being seated at a table.

St. Pancras station is to the north of London, so in some ways an odd place to start out towards the south coast from. The original Eurostar terminus was Waterloo Station, in south London. The Eurostar ran on mostly conventional commuter track from the tunnel up to Waterloo station, so had to observe regular track speeds. In order to speed things up, a complete new high speed line was constructed from St. Pancras which opened in 2007.

Whizzing along backwards through miles of tunnel under London is not as much fun as one might think, but we were soon out in the daylight again, before entering the Channel Tunnel itself.

This train made no stops between London and Paris. There were a couple of stations built in the UK for the service, but it seems Brexit and the new passport checks rendered them obsolete!

I had been to Paris previously, but had always travelled onwards from the Gare du Nord by metro. On this trip, I was staying in the area near the station. Gosh, quite surprised to find myself in “Little India”! Many Indian restaurants and businesses of all types, a busy and thriving environment.

I walked to my accommodation, a nice purpose built hostel, without getting lost for once! Happily I was assigned a lower bunk bed, and was told that breakfasts were included in the price, which I hadn’t realised. A nice “green” hostel of interesting construction, they opened the common areas to the wider community for board games, music, and so on. They even had a bar, so what’s not to like…

View attachment 36968

I had no real objective to achieve on this short visit, it was just nice to experience life away from home for a few days. Next morning, after breakfast, yes, coffee and croissant, I walked up to the Sacre-Coeur church for the views over Paris. Gosh, all those steps were a challenge! When I was last here, the touts were all selling Eiffel Tower statuettes and similar. This time all they were pushing were “love-locks”. Every metal fence outside the church was festooned with these padlocks! Lots of romance in Paris, it seems…
I grabbed a distant view of the Eiffel Tower from up here, that’s near enough for this visit.

The Montmartre area adjacent is very lively, lots of stalls with artists selling their paintings, and folk sitting at pavement cafes, happily people watching in the sunshine.

View attachment 36969


I walked down to have a look at the Moulin Rouge Cabaret building, but unfortunately the iconic windmill decoration atop, fell down in high winds, a couple of months ago!

When planning the trip, I watched a youtube channel called “Les Frenchies” to remind myself of how to obtain Paris metro tickets, and for other tips. By coincidence, I noticed the couple who run it nearby when at the Moulin Rouge and said hello, when they had finished filming.

A slow walk back to the hostel, a pint or two before bedtime, and that was my day out in Paris!

I was up early the next morning, and enjoyed sitting in the hostel garden area while the world around me woke up.

View attachment 36973

Another coffee and croissant breakfast, check out, and a slow walk back to the Gare du Nord for my return journey.

View attachment 36970

I do like the continental station destination boards, the names just sound so exotic, compared to those back home!

View attachment 36971

Similar situation in Paris, one has to wait to pass into the Eurostar area, then bags are scanned and passports checked. There are automatic “E-gates” in Paris for the passports, but none yet in London. Much less crowded in the waiting hall also.

View attachment 36972

An interesting French guy as seating companion on the return journey, so the time passed quickly.

The journey down from Nottingham cost me £19, but the ticket back would be £35, as it was getting towards the expensive rush hour fares time of day. Bright idea, I will book a coach from Victoria Coach station back to Nottingham instead at a cost of just £10. I can use my old folks bus pass to catch just one bus from outside St. Pancras station all the way to Victoria.

That was the plan and it worked well until I remembered just how convoluted the route was, how
s-l-o-w the bus moved, and yes, I managed to miss my coach. Next coach to Nottingham is in 1 hour, fare is £25! I am not quite sure what lesson I have learnt from that experience, but once my humiliation fades I am sure I will draw the correct conclusions!

The normal Eurostar fares are quite high these days, I was delighted to travel to Paris and back with a sale price for only £35 each way. The need to be at the stations so early nowadays to check in, and the overcrowding, did take a little of the shine off the experience, but it still made a great mini-adventure!

Link to Eurostar High Speed Line Construction info:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/30/transport.world
Nice report, thanks for posting!🙂

I rode the Eurostar when it was fairly new, in 1998, from Paris’s North Station to London’s Waterloo International.
Since I figured it would most likely be a one time only trip for me, I splurged on First Class ( there were three to choose from). I was the only traveler in it, and received superb personal service from the attendant. The three course luncheon was very nice. I admired the logo cup and saucer, and asked the attendant if I could purchase a set. He apologetically answered they didn’t have any for sale. IIRC, we made one quick stop on the French side of the Chunnel, not sure if we did on the English side, as well.
As I was exiting the train and handed the attendant his gratuity, he presented me a box with linen napkin wrapped around a clean cup and saucer set.
The final luxury was an included chauffeured sedan ride to my hotel in Knightsbridge, a nice Rover…😎
 
I think the real reason for the congestion at the London end is probably because there are only Eurostar trains departing, for Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam from St. Pancras. Whereas, there are many more non Eurostar options to travel between Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam.
That's probably true too. The departures are timed to mitigate this somewhat but as soon as something goes wrong (delay, cancellation) the stuff hits the fan. I have yet to see the StP departure lounge not packed, with people sitting on luggage, the floor and on the laps of their friends and relatives. It's worse than any airport or train station I've ever seen.

I hear you on Dublin. I've booked from there a few times but have yet to make it due to flight cancellations. Even considered the ferry from Holyhead to skirt the departure taxes. ;)
 
The Montmartre area adjacent is very lively, lots of stalls with artists selling their paintings, and folk sitting at pavement cafes, happily people watching in the sunshine.

You can always tell us Yanks, we're the ones sitting at sidewalk cafes, not "pavement cafes." :D

Merci for a wonderful trip report!
 
I hear you on Dublin. I've booked from there a few times but have yet to make it due to flight cancellations. Even considered the ferry from Holyhead to skirt the departure taxes. ;)
I have taken the ferry across to Dublin, there is a "rail-sail" through ticket available for just under £50 one way from Nottingham, and the same fare from most UK stations, I believe.
Not sure how departure tax works, I can fly from my local airport, EMA, to Dublin direct for as little as £16 one way, so there can't be much tax in that.
One big advantage for European folk flying to America from Dublin is the "pre-clearance" at Dublin Airport. One effectively goes through customs and immigration before you board, and so land at a domestic terminal stateside, which saves a lot of hassle at busy times. I believe there are several airports where this happens, including Dubai...
 
Not sure how departure tax works, I can fly from my local airport, EMA, to Dublin direct for as little as £16 one way, so there can't be much tax in that.
One big advantage for European folk flying to America from Dublin is the "pre-clearance" at Dublin Airport. One effectively goes through customs and immigration before you board, and so land at a domestic terminal stateside, which saves a lot of hassle at busy times. I believe there are several airports where this happens, including Dubai...
On our last trip to the UK we departed back to the US from Dublin. This was partly because we wanted to visit Ireland but having pre clearance in Dublin and getting that all out of the way was nice, plus the Dublin airport experience seems less chaotic than Heathrow.

The only drawback to preclearance was the car service meeting us at Logan Airport assumed that since we were coming back from Europe we would be arriving at the international terminal even though I had told them we were arriving at the Delta domestic terminal. It all got sorted out in the end.
 
What a nice trip - I love France! Is it still possible to take a ferry across the Channel, or is that a thing of the past? I did love that, too.
It's still possible and it's quite probable that ferry service will outlive the current channel tunnel, although that could take another 90+ years or more.
 
What a nice trip - I love France! Is it still possible to take a ferry across the Channel, or is that a thing of the past? I did love that, too.
Yes, indeed. In fact if you have British friends the trick is to drive one way onto the "auto train" through the tunnel, shop at the big mall in Calais then take the ferry back to Dover while enjoying a nice plate of fish 'n' chips.;) On the more serious side, there are two competing ferry companies and the crossing tends to price out cheaper than all but the most advance-purchase Eurostar tickets. It is, of course, much slower but you have the advantage of on-board shops and restaurants on the way.
 
What a nice trip - I love France! Is it still possible to take a ferry across the Channel, or is that a thing of the past? I did love that, too.
Hi Jennifer, as others have said, one can still travel by ferry. I don't think they expect many foot passengers these days, but there are many coach companies that offer London to Paris fares, which use the ferries. One of course vacates the coach during the ferry crossing.
Some coaches use the drive on Eurotunnel trains, where passengers stay in their coach seats for the short and scenery free trip. ;)

I don't think the booze cruise trips to shop in Calais, mentioned above, are worthwhile since Brexit, as we can now only import a tiny proportion of "duty free" items, but the fish and chips are still available!
 
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What a nice trip - I love France! Is it still possible to take a ferry across the Channel, or is that a thing of the past? I did love that, too.
One ferry that I believe still runs is the Stena Line crossing between Harwich and Hook of Holland.
This could be fairly efficient for someone traveling between the UK and the Netherlands (or on to Germany or France) where you travel overnight and wake up at your destination with a full day ahead, unlike Eurostar where you travel by daytime.

Here is a video of such a trip
 
St. Pancras station is to the north of London, so in some ways an odd place to start out towards the south coast from. The original Eurostar terminus was Waterloo Station, in south London. The Eurostar ran on mostly conventional commuter track from the tunnel up to Waterloo station, so had to observe regular track speeds. In order to speed things up, a complete new high speed line was constructed from St. Pancras which opened in 2007.
In the pre tunnel days, the boat trains for France mostly left from Victoria (I think they ran from Charing Cross for a period too, not sure why). The famous named trains such as the Golden Arrow / Flêche d'Or and the Night Ferry also ran from Victoria. The Night Ferry was the only UK passenger train (pre Eurotunnel) that physically ran to France (using the Dunkirk train ferry), the other trains all connected to passenger ferries (or the hovercraft in certain cases). The Orient Express also ran from Victoria until the British arm was cancelled a few years ago.

I always felt Victoria was the most stylish of the London stations for European travel. There is even a clock outside called "Little Ben" that (supposedly) displays French time for half the year and British time for half the year through the simple trick of not respecting daylight saving. According to popular legend (but apparently, not actually true), it was erected as a nod to the Entente Cordiale, the landmark treaty of 1904 that cemented British friendship with France, ending almost 1000 years of intermittent hostility. Sadly the clock seems to be broken quite often these days, despite a major overhaul a few years back (a gift to Britain by the French corporation, Elf Aquitaine). I wonder how many commuters must have missed their trains because of this clock.

St Pancras is probably the most beautiful of all the London terminii, and is also a fitting place for today's Eurostar to depart. I quite liked Waterloo as well, though I guess the name may have been perceived as undiplomatic towards French visitors.

Here is Little Ben.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ben

800px-Little_Ben_in_the_City_of_Westminster.jpg
 
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Back in the pre-Chunnel days when I took the ferry (Seacat Catamaran Ferries) a couple of times, departure from London was from Victoria, and the Ferry was from Folkestone to Boulogne-sur-Mer, with train connection from there to Paris Gare du Nord.

I had been to Paris previously, but had always travelled onwards from the Gare du Nord by metro. On this trip, I was staying in the area near the station. Gosh, quite surprised to find myself in “Little India”! Many Indian restaurants and businesses of all types, a busy and thriving environment.

Of the dozens of times I have been to Paris, sometimes even for somewhat extended stays on business, the only time I stayed in the Gare du Nord area was during my very first trip with my parents as a kid back in 1966. There were almost no Indians to be found in Paris back then. The Gare du Nord area had more of a mix of White and African population as I seem to recall, back then. It was still a thriving lively neighborhood.

All the other trips since then I stayed in Rive Gauche (afterall the Company was paying for it :) ), either in the St. Michel Notre Dame area or on the back side of Gare Montparnasse, around Metro Pernety on little back streets in little hotels.

Oddly in Paris, unlike in many American cities, the are inside the Peripherique is generally the safer part. Many of the Banlieus, specially North was downright scary sometimes as I recall. I visited all those areas while riding the Metro and the new Tram lines. They reminded me of Bed-Stuy in New York back in the days. The last time I was in Paris was a few years before COVID.
 
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Oddly in Paris, unlike in many American cities, the are inside the Peripherique is generally the safer part. Many of the Banlieus, specially North was downright scary sometimes as I recall. I visited all those areas while riding the Metro and the new Tram lines. They reminded me of Bed-Stuy in New York back in the days. The last time I was in Paris was a few years before COVID.
I think your mileage may vary. There are some arrondisements within Paris proper that can be quite intimidating, though sometimes it is a question of moving just one street over and the difference is like night and day. The same can be said of the banlieues, with even some of the places with very bad names sometimes having nicer pockets within them. A British friend of mine who lived in Paris for many years says the typical pattern is that they do up one area and make it nice and drive out all the undesirables, and these just find another place to take over and make nasty, and so the game never ends.
 
When I was a kid (in the bicentennial no less) we went to Europe and I remember taking a sleeper/night train across the channel. I don't remember getting off the train though and have very, very vague memories of being on the train on a boat.
That would probably have been the Night Ferry. The train was discontinued in 1980. The Night Ferry used continental style Wagons Lits cars, but built to the narrower British loading gauge. These had been built in the 1930s. The train crossed the Channel via the Dover to Dunkirk train ferry, connecting London Victoria to Paris Gare du Nord. At times there were also cars for Brussels. The sleeper train was discontinued in 1980 as there was no money to replace the aged equipment.
 
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I think your mileage may vary. There are some arrondisements within Paris proper that can be quite intimidating, though sometimes it is a question of moving just one street over and the difference is like night and day. The same can be said of the banlieues, with even some of the places with very bad names sometimes having nicer pockets within them. A British friend of mine who lived in Paris for many years says the typical pattern is that they do up one area and make it nice and drive out all the undesirables, and these just find another place to take over and make nasty, and so the game never ends.
Usually as an outsider you seldom know which is which unless you spend some time in the area. This is true of many areas in Brooklyn in NY too, the ones that have been gentrifying.

Back then one specific area that I remember as "terrible" in Paris was the area around the Porte de Clignancort Metro station. That area may be very different now.

And yes there were/are very nice suburbs too like in the US or UK. One of my colleagues used to live in Meudon Val Fleury, which as I recall was quite nice, somewhat hilly area southwest of Paris on RER-C.

That would probably have been the Night Ferry. The train was discontinued in 1980. The Night Ferry used continental style Wagons Lits cars, but built to the narrower British loading gauge. These had been built in the 1930s. The train crossed the Channel via the Dover to Dunkirk train ferry. The sleeper train was discontinued in 1980 as there was no money to replace the aged equipment.
Sadly the planned Nightstar through the Chunnel was still born and a lot of that rolling stock showed up in Canada instead.
 
One ferry that I believe still runs is the Stena Line crossing between Harwich and Hook of Holland.
This could be fairly efficient for someone traveling between the UK and the Netherlands (or on to Germany or France) where you travel overnight and wake up at your destination with a full day ahead, unlike Eurostar where you travel by daytime.

Here is a video of such a trip
The same rail-sail offer to Ireland applies to the Harwich ferry also. I have taken this route myself several times. Starting from Nottingham, one is obliged to take the night ferry, as it is awkward to reach Harwich early enough for the daytime crossing. A cabin is compulsory for night crossings. Fares vary, but the inclusive fare and cabin tend to be around £100 one way. I guess more at peak holiday times.
Originally, the ticket was good for all arrival day onward train travel within the Netherlands, a great bargain. Sadly, there is now a "tram" link from the Dutch ferry terminal, rather than a rail link, so the current fare is only as far as the Dutch ferry port.
There is also a ferry from Newcastle area, (not rail-sail), they seem to cater more for folk going on quick overnight and return jaunts, I think.
 
There is also a ferry from Newcastle area, (not rail-sail), they seem to cater more for folk going on quick overnight and return jaunts, I think.
There are also various ferries still operating from some of the ports on the south coast, including Plymouth to Santander (in Spain) but also things like Portsmouth to Cherbourg.

It is technically possible to connect to rail services with these ferries but i don't think any combined fares are offered any more.
 
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