Amtrak Coffee

[AlanB]

Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.

Those machines on the Viewliners are going away, in favor of the old-style percolators found on the Superliners.

Is this occuring now? Hope so, I'll be on the LSL heading western bound on 2/18, CL return on 2/19. I'll do a coffee comparison.

Last I rode, in 1/2010 I much preferred the Superliner coffee to the Viewliner.

PS: I haven't ridden the LSL westbound at all and last eastbound trip was into Grand Central. STOKED!!!!

Yes. I'm not sure at what rate, but when I headed to the Gathering back in October the other NY sleeper had the old style coffee pot, while mine still had the crappy machine. But I have it on good authority from someone right at the top that Amtrak will be removing those machines in favor of the perc pots. In fact, I actually had the pleasure of meeting that person because of the coffee pot.

 

[Ryan]

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Let that one sink in for a while, shipmate.

 

[NAVYBLUE]

And now back to our sponsor Green Mt Coffee.

While in the Hawaiian Islands( Maui/Hawaii) in 2007 I visited a couple of coffee farms in the KONA coffee area of Hawaii ( The Big Island) as I didn't know how coffee was grown and they are very nice and expalin/show you everthing and learned a secret from one of the owners.

I said is there anyway to enjoy KONA coffee without buying it in it's pure state which is not cheap. Here is what I learned. Other tha nusing the fancy coffee presses to brew he said:

Take a 50/50 blend of KONA and 8 O'Clock or Peets whole bean coffee and grind. Never use pre-ground coffee he said as the coffee oils starts a slow rancid process

Try to find the brown filters for your drip coffee pot as the white paper ones are bleached and the chemical residue affects the taste. Also he said when you put the brown filter in the holder run water so it is very wet and sticks to the side and gets any loose paper residue out of the filter

Use only DISTILLED water.

Never store beans in the refrigerator

Clean your coffee pot system once a month including the filter holder.

He said unless your are a coffee grader you can not tell the difference between pure KONA and the 50/50 mix.

He said in his opinion and he said others disagree with him, but that 8 O' Clock and Peets (fresh ground bean) by themselves are second only to KONA for the best tasting coffee found in mainland U.S. To each his own.

NAVYBLUE

 

[AlanB]

Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.

Actually, I think it's as simple as the fact that GM stopped making filter packs! Amtrak doesn't have K-Cup machines in the cafe cars, and I imagine that would be a very expensive retrofit.

It would also be very inefficient and expensive in terms of buying the coffee if they were to switch to K-Cup machines in either the diner or the cafe car. It might, might make some sense in the sleepers. But definitely not in the diner & cafe. I can walk into a Dunkin Donuts and buy a pound of ground coffee for $8.99 and make a ton of coffee. A 14 pack of K-Cups making exactly 14 cups of coffee costs $12.99. I get way more than 14 cups of coffee out of a pound and I spend $4 less to begin with.

So aside from the fact that the need to make dozens of cups of coffee at the same time in the diner, it would also cost Amtrak far more just to buy the coffee.

 

[RRUserious]

I'm not a great judge of "coffee quality". I do like the idea of paying coffee growers enough to live on. But I'm pretty sure most coffee isn't made with those beans (for one thing, the thirst for coffee far exceeds what growers like that can provide).

All I can say is that being just a few steps from a coffee maker with hot coffee in it was one of the nicest "perks" (no pun) of paying for a sleeping room. Sitting in the lounge car with a hot cup, watching scenery go by was another warm memory (no puns again). So I guess I'm a neutral in any fight about whether Amtrak is doing right. They sure are doing right by me.

 

[Guest]

And now back to our sponsor Green Mt Coffee.

While in the Hawaiian Islands( Maui/Hawaii) in 2007 I visited a couple of coffee farms in the KONA coffee area of Hawaii ( The Big Island) as I didn't know how coffee was grown and they are very nice and expalin/show you everthing and learned a secret from one of the owners.

I said is there anyway to enjoy KONA coffee without buying it in it's pure state which is not cheap. Here is what I learned. Other tha nusing the fancy coffee presses to brew he said:

Take a 50/50 blend of KONA and 8 O'Clock or Peets whole bean coffee and grind. Never use pre-ground coffee he said as the coffee oils starts a slow rancid process

Try to find the brown filters for your drip coffee pot as the white paper ones are bleached and the chemical residue affects the taste. Also he said when you put the brown filter in the holder run water so it is very wet and sticks to the side and gets any loose paper residue out of the filter

Use only DISTILLED water.

Never store beans in the refrigerator

Clean your coffee pot system once a month including the filter holder.

He said unless your are a coffee grader you can not tell the difference between pure KONA and the 50/50 mix.

He said in his opinion and he said others disagree with him, but that 8 O' Clock and Peets (fresh ground bean) by themselves are second only to KONA for the best tasting coffee found in mainland U.S. To each his own.

NAVYBLUE

Yep

Clean equipment

Good water

Freshly ground beans (burr grinder, not blade)

If you are not doing these things the quality of beans doesn't matter nearly as much. These three things are not magic, they are not hard, and there is really no skill involved besides knowing what setting to put your grinder on. The burr grinder will set you back a little money, but even without it cleanliness and good water make a huge difference.

I have never seen a burr grinder or jugs of distilled water on a train so GM or S&D probably doesn't make much difference.

 

[dlagrua]

There are two distinct species of coffee bean plants, Robusta and Arabica. Most coffee served in restaurants is the more common species called "Robusta". Arabica coffee is the superior species from the coffee lover's point of view. Robusta is a high yielding coffee plant that is more easily grown. Arabica beans can only be grown in regions 20* N and S of the equator and in distinct climates. They are the bean of choice in "gourmet" coffee. Arabica coffee beans produce the rich flavor and body found in a good cup of coffee. Robusta usually lacks this flavor and body. As a true coffee connoisseur I only drink the higher grade Arabica coffees but not all grades of Robusta coffees are bad and not all Arabica coffees are good. Due to the higher cost I don't believe that you will be getting high grade Arabica coffee on Amtrak anytime soon. As for K cups, you pay about $37.00/lb to have coffees of questionable quality and for that lazy convenience. Its not cost effective for a commercial establishment.

 

[Golden grrl]

Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.

Those machines on the Viewliners are going away, in favor of the old-style percolators found on the Superliners.

Is this occuring now? Hope so, I'll be on the LSL heading western bound on 2/18, CL return on 2/19. I'll do a coffee comparison.

Last I rode, in 1/2010 I much preferred the Superliner coffee to the Viewliner.

PS: I haven't ridden the LSL westbound at all and last eastbound trip was into Grand Central. STOKED!!!!

Here's my quite recent comparison.

I rode the Sunset [superliner] all the way from LAX to NOL and then Crescent [Viewliner] on the next day, not quite 3 weeks ago. TE coffee [old perc] significantly superior to that on Crescent [some kind of new-fangled machine, didn't pay attention to what type]. Drank a lot on the Crescent, though, since the car was so cold. Heat was broken on the sleeper and an extra blanket and a warm coffee cup were wondrous joy. Coffee in the Crescent diner was better than that in the sleeper. Don't know how they made it in the diner, I was just guzzling it as fast as they could refill.

 

[EB_OBS]

Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.

Actually, I think it's as simple as the fact that GM stopped making filter packs! Amtrak doesn't have K-Cup machines in the cafe cars, and I imagine that would be a very expensive retrofit.

This is absolutely correct. Green Mountain discontinue their filter packs. Amtrak 32 cup coffee makers utilize sealed filter packs and not open top filters.

 

[EB_OBS]

The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.

It's probable that this coffee and it's equipment will be going away though. It's apparently highly susceptible to fire if not properly maintained.

 

[Blackwolf]

The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.

It's probable that this coffee and it's equipment will be going away though. It's apparently highly susceptible to fire if not properly maintained.

Tell that to the Oakland Shops when California Zephyr's diner decided to do a Roman Candle impression some months back! Yup, the coffee maker was the culprit and I do recall that this one incident is far from the first but certainly the most destructive. Destroy a several million dollar piece of rolling stock (and damage the SSL and sleeper on either side) and you have yourself a new coffee contract!

Talking with a fellow firefighter working for Oakland FD and who was on the incident, he remarked just how hard it is to put a fire out in a Superliner railcar. Sheet metal everywhere, that turns into razor blades when cut, with thousands of small nooks and crannies filled with foam insulation/wiring/plastic parts which burn with acrid smoke and are nearly impossible to access. They hated the damn thing, and had to babysit it for hours to make sure the fire was out before passing control of the car back to Amtrak staff.

 

[AlanB]

The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.

It's OK, certainly better than the swill brewed by the automatic coffee makers installed on the Viewliner sleepers (now being retired), but it's not great either. In fact on my last trip, I carried along my NY Mets/Club Acela coffee mug that I got from my visit to the Amtrak Suite in the new Citi Field, and I filled that up in the sleeper and carried it into the dining car for breakfast.

But still, the absolute worst is that which is made by those automated coffee makers in the Viewliners. Which is why I was so happy to hear from Brian Gallagher whom I accidentally bumped into on the LSL, that those coffee makers were being pulled in favor of the old style perk pots. Yes it requires a bit more work on the part of the sleeping car attendant, but for the passenger it is simply so much better!

 

[Shanghai]

Alan, the absolute worse coffee served by Amtrak is in the Acela Lounge at NYP!!

I go to Krispy Kreme and buy my coffee before going to the lounge.

 

[RRUserious]

Spose for a long trip a person could drip brew at home and take it in a pumper thermos.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.

This is an interesting jump and assumption.

Most people that I know that are concerned about drinking fair trade coffee make a point to buy local as much as possible.

I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...

 

[NAVYBLUE]

I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.

This is an interesting jump and assumption.

Most people that I know that are concerned about drinking fair trade coffee make a point to buy local as much as possible.

I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...

Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist. The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma. On a similar vein, my SIL worked for a sewing company in SW Pennsylvania. She described how one week she sewed SEARS on these women's cotton pajamas. Next week same exact pajamas BUT Ralph Lauren went on. You hardly know what you are buying nowadays unless you are right there where they make it, build it or grow it. That's why I belong to a farm Co-op in Nevada and actually get to go see the stuff grown.

Man, I hope you have armor on. INCOMING !!!!

NAVYBLUE

PS: Also I don't know how long this post will stay up as the moderators also appear to be afraid of the truth also.

 

[pennyk]

I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.

This is an interesting jump and assumption.

Most people that I know that are concerned about drinking fair trade coffee make a point to buy local as much as possible.

I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...

Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist. The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma. On a similar vein, my SIL worked for a sewing company in SW Pennsylvania. She described how one week she sewed SEARS on these women's cotton pajamas. Next week same exact pajamas BUT Ralph Lauren went on. You hardly know what you are buying nowadays unless you are right there where they make it, build it or grow it. That's why I belong to a farm Co-op in Nevada and actually get to go see the stuff grown.

Man, I hope you have armor on. INCOMING !!!!

NAVYBLUE

PS: Also I don't know how long this post will stay up as the moderators also appear to be afraid of the truth also.

I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."

I think there is a big difference in LTR's calm post in which he is not name calling or insulting any group. Some of my AU "best friends" are conservative and we remain friends because we respect each other's opinions and do not engage in name calling.

Peace and Namaste,

Penny

 

[MrFSS]

I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."

I think there is a big difference in LTR's calm post in which he is not name calling or insulting any group. Some of my AU "best friends" are conservative and we remain friends because we respect each other's opinions and do not engage in name calling.

Peace and Namaste,

Penny

And, we all know, respect, and appreciate LTR and would never question his position.

 

[AlanB]

I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...

Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist. The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma. On a similar vein, my SIL worked for a sewing company in SW Pennsylvania. She described how one week she sewed SEARS on these women's cotton pajamas. Next week same exact pajamas BUT Ralph Lauren went on. You hardly know what you are buying nowadays unless you are right there where they make it, build it or grow it. That's why I belong to a farm Co-op in Nevada and actually get to go see the stuff grown.

Man, I hope you have armor on. INCOMING !!!!

NAVYBLUE

PS: Also I don't know how long this post will stay up as the moderators also appear to be afraid of the truth also.

Actually the only one throwing around names here, as pointed out by Penny, is you!

And for the record, party affiliation is not a question that gets asked when considering who gets to be a moderator. In fact, I believe based upon my knowledge pieced together from casual conversations; 2 staff members are Republicans, 2 are Democrats and I suspect that a third also is, and I'm an Independent. So that pretty much blows your theory.

Now let's lay off the nonsense and get back to discussing trains!

Thank you.

 

[amamba]

From what EB_OBS posted, the coffee in the diners is different from that in the sleepers, right? Maybe that explains why I thought the coffee in the diner on the SWC was so weak. I needed like 4 cups of it one morning to start feeling like a normal person again.

 

[NAVYBLUE]

First off AlanB a none other authority than Amanda has already told us "liberal" is not a dirty name.

Second, pennyk as you may be late to this rodeo you have NO idea what has been insinuated about me.

Thirdly AlanB, I have NEVER started an original post of mine that contained political talk or leanings. I have responded to posts that turned into political screeds. As I have stated before, I am able to ferret out the political statements that some are trying to discretely weave in and out their screeds. When I disagree, I respond.

Fourthly you have a poster that uses an AVATAR of a open mouthed Newt Gingrich and a two faced Governor Perry. How is that not political or name calling. I suppose you would have no problem with me using the famous Obama white face or Obama with red line through it or the myriad of other Obama caricatures. I didn't think so. I don't do it because I have respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS.

Fifthly this is the rare site that I go to (I am a member of 47 sign in sites) that doesn't have a political discussion section.

Sixthly as I have discovered the AU/Rail fan(as in fanatic) in general tends to lean Democratic, they tend to couch their words in support of AMTRAK because the have a vested interest in it. Anything that goes against their dogma is meant with scorn and no facts to back their views with

Seventhly I've discovered a lot of this after viewing a year and a half of posts. I didn't come here thinking "Oh, they will love me to death" Personally I have some web sites I go that I told you privately make some of these posts pale in comparison.

Eighthly I have learned an incredible amount of info that helped me with the west to east part of my LD from LAX-CHI-BAL and the 1/11 east to west return and will be forever grateful for their assistance and the valuable info I have received and hope to receive.

And finally as I told you in a private email, I will challenge those who think their number of posts constitutes imperial wisdom about everything.

NAVYBLUE

 

[Shortline]

If it isn't freshly ground and steeped in a French press, it's equally mediocre! I prefer European roasts, Eduscho from Germany is one of my favorites.

 

[AlanB]

First off AlanB a none other authority than Amanda has already told us "liberal" is not a dirty name.

I never said it was a dirty name; just that you were throwing around names.

Second, pennyk as you may be late to this rodeo you have NO idea what has been insinuated about me.

And it got deleted. Time to let it go!

Thirdly AlanB, I have NEVER started an original post of mine that contained political talk or leanings. I have responded to posts that turned into political screeds

Wrong! You were the only one that thought that the question about Free Trade Coffee was a political conversation.

Is it possible that the poster knew of the political overtones? Sure! But he never mentioned politics; only you did.

Fourthly you have a poster that uses an AVATAR of a open mouthed Newt Gingrich and a two faced Governor Perry. How is that not political or name calling. I suppose you would have no problem with me using the famous Obama white face or Obama with red line through it or the myriad of other Obama caricatures. I didn't think so. I don't do it because I have respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS.

And I do as well have respect for the office, which is why despite my firm belief that George W Bush was one of the worst Presidents ever, I only publicly criticized the decisions and not the man during his time in office. And as someone who voted for his father and has great respect for his father, it pains me to acknowledge his sons' failures as a President. In fact, I wrote a similar post just about 2 weeks ago on a newspaper blog that can be found here. Roll about a quarter of the way down the page to a post dated Dec 18th at 5:19 PM with the author name of AHBLID, my other handle when posting on the and AlanB is already in use.

However, let me remind you that neither Mr. Gingrich nor Governor Perry are yet President.

Fifthly this is the rare site that I go to (I am a member of 47 sign in sites) that doesn't have a political discussion section.

Well I belong to about 12 sites, beyond this one, that don't have a political section. My guess is that it just has more to do with the overall theme of the forum than anything else.

Sixthly as I have discovered the AU/Rail fan(as in fanatic) in general tends to lean Democratic, they tend to couch their words in support of AMTRAK because the have a vested interest in it. Anything that goes against their dogma is meant with scorn and no facts to back their views with

I suspect that this forum does lean towards the Democratic side, but I can assure you that there are plenty of Republicans here too. I'm proud to count several as good friends.

Eighthly I have learned an incredible amount of info that helped me with the west to east part of my LD from LAX-CHI-BAL and will be forever grateful for their assistance.

I'm glad to hear that, as that is why this site exists. Everything else is really secondary.

And finally as I told you in a private email, I will challenge those who think there number of posts constitutes imperial wisdom about everything.

With respect, there is a difference between challenging them and shoving it down their throats. Yes, I know that you got slammed earlier on and again, we dealt with that. But lately it seems like you're doing more of the slamming, which is why you've seen some of your posts disappear. And again, those posts have been deleted by both Dem & Repub staff members, as well as me. So it's not a political thing.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Rude service, long wait times, nonsensical customer unfriendly policies, outdated decor

A place like that must have the best coffee because otherwise, they would not still be in business. :giggle:

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."

I think there is a big difference in LTR's calm post in which he is not name calling or insulting any group. Some of my AU "best friends" are conservative and we remain friends because we respect each other's opinions and do not engage in name calling.

Peace and Namaste,

Penny

And, we all know, respect, and appreciate LTR and would never question his position.

I don't think I've ever gotten flamed or gotten into anyone here on AU. I try to avoid being controversial if someone would like to challenge I would like to know how many times they've watched a coffee terminal break the seal on a 53 foot shipping container stacked floor to ceiling with 60 or 70 kilo bags of coffee, or for that matter could tell you the names of the people at the fair trade alliance who focus on coffee.

I don't see fair trade coffee as a political issue or even think some of these "ultra premium coffees" are worth anywhere close to what people will pay for them.

EDIT: read the rest of the posts before mine. I can sure you I had no intention of causing a political issue out of fair trade coffee in fact I didn't even see it as one... I just was sharing my knowledge about fair trade coffee since I've learned just about all coffee imported here on the East Coast meets the standards of fair trade, but the company you are buying or drinking coffee might just not pay the fees to the Fair Trade Alliance to use their logo.

Double edit: Just to cover myself in case someone really is trying to take an issue. Yes this year starting Jan 1 you can use the fair trade alliance logo on up to 20,000 pounds with their permission before you have to pay them, and you do in fact have a fair trade coffee. So as of yesterday you can use their logo without paying a fee and perhaps more coffee roasting companies will begin to use the logo on their products because of this change.