Amtrak confirms new sleepers, baggages, diners will be Viewliners

[Rafi]

I posted this in the new train service for Virginians thread, but since not everyone may be keeping up with that one, I figured I should make sure this got noticed...

I attended the annual Virginia Association of Railway Patrons (VARP) meeting today and one of the speakers was Jay McArthur, Principal Officer for Strategic Partnerships & Business Development. In the context of other topics, he mentioned and, at my direct, point by point re-confirmation, confirmed the following:

Amtrak has decided to refresh their fleet of SLEEPER, DINER, and BAGGAGE CARS with Viewliner shells. They are in the process of working up new schematics. No word on if the Sleepers will remain the same or if we'll end up seeing maybe a combined Sleeper/Baggage, or new Sleeper config, etc. Viewliners MAY become the shell for new single level coaches as well, but it has not been decided yet.

All Heritage equipment should be completely phased out once the new Viewliner order is filled. As new coach cars come online, Amfleets will begin to replace Horizon rolling stock.

Amtrak is also preparing a "recommended" corridor car for states who are looking to implement corridor service. The reason is that Amtrak has found that most states don't know where to start when it comes to identifying appropriate rolling stock for new corridor services, so Amtrak has taken the Surfliner configuration and standardized it as the model that is presented to states who need a starting point when deciding what to order. Of course the cars aren't of much use in the Northeast, so it's only being presented to states who wouldn't be dealing with those clearance issues.

-Rafi

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

 

[amtrakwolverine]

this is good news. amtrak needs new rolling stock like yesterday.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Thanks, Rafi. Did you happen to get any kinda ballpark timeframe for when the new stuff might start coming online?

EDIT: And has a builder been identified?

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

And I just got off of the Crescent at 6:45 in New Orleans, yes it was a full 45 minutes early, and the diner I ate in was awfully rough riding. It was almost impossible to eat due to the motion, although the OBS Chief came by an apologized for the rough ride and said running these antiques at 80mph through the swamp during dinner is a little ridiculous. Since I was a sleeper pax in room B on veiwliner 1910 I could easily compare the difference. I will be very grateful when they retire the old rust buckets they call diners and replace them with Viewliners.

Can anybody confirm that the new viewliners will have one large window similar to the same size as the current small ones put together? Looking out of the Viewliner backing in next to Superliners, the windows on the Superliners seemed to be as tall as both on the Viewliners put together.

I'm leaving to head back to Tuscaloosa tomorrow in roomette 001 in car 2010, yes I took the train for the train, not to actually go anywhere, and yes I upgraded to sleeper for no real reason. I also lucked out coming down in that the bedroom was actually $30 cheaper than the roomette, go figure!

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

Not hardly, NOL, CHI and Florida are not the NEC, with the sorry state of the Heritage cars, which we all know or in their 60s and 70s, I say this is a very wise investment. For years the LD trains have been neglected, except maybe the CS and EB, so investing in them is a sign that Amtrak is actually thinking about them and not just letting them wither away.

 

[Acela150]

Is it me or have I told people this over and over?

Stephen

 

[Rafi]

Thanks, Rafi. Did you happen to get any kinda ballpark timeframe for when the new stuff might start coming online?
EDIT: And has a builder been identified?

My impression from the context of his talk was that it would be at least two years for any new equipment once it's been ordered (although I strongly suspect some guys on this forum may be able to speak more authoritatively on this topic than I), and that may float later depending on when they figure out who's building them . Which brings me to your followup question. That was on my list to ask him, but I was far and away asking more questions than anyone else in the room, and after about 30-45 minutes of Q&A, they had to turn down more questions, including that last one I had about a builder.

Rafi

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

No dedicated Viewliner Lounges? With those double windows, that would make for a perfect Lounge, something I hate to see merged in with a Diner. Lounges are for lounging and Diners are for eating! Think of the Eastern version of the Sightseer.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

Not hardly, NOL, CHI and Florida are not the NEC, with the sorry state of the Heritage cars, which we all know or in their 60s and 70s, I say this is a very wise investment. For years the LD trains have been neglected, except maybe the CS and EB, so investing in them is a sign that Amtrak is actually thinking about them and not just letting them wither away.

I don't understand, so they're going to mix Viewliners and Superliners on the same routes? Or are the doing away with Superliners on the CNO and other Superliner routes?

 

[transit54]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

Not hardly, NOL, CHI and Florida are not the NEC, with the sorry state of the Heritage cars, which we all know or in their 60s and 70s, I say this is a very wise investment. For years the LD trains have been neglected, except maybe the CS and EB, so investing in them is a sign that Amtrak is actually thinking about them and not just letting them wither away.

I don't understand, so they're going to mix Viewliners and Superliners on the same routes? Or are the doing away with Superliners on the CNO and other Superliner routes?

I think he was referring to the Crescent, not the CONO. I don't think anything is going to happen to the Superliners, though I could be wrong.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

Not hardly, NOL, CHI and Florida are not the NEC, with the sorry state of the Heritage cars, which we all know or in their 60s and 70s, I say this is a very wise investment. For years the LD trains have been neglected, except maybe the CS and EB, so investing in them is a sign that Amtrak is actually thinking about them and not just letting them wither away.

I don't understand, so they're going to mix Viewliners and Superliners on the same routes? Or are the doing away with Superliners on the CNO and other Superliner routes?

I think he was referring to the Crescent, not the CONO. I don't think anything is going to happen to the Superliners, though I could be wrong.

maybe order superliner 3's

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Viewliners? Sounds like they're going to spend all this money on the northeast corridor. :angry:

Not hardly, NOL, CHI and Florida are not the NEC, with the sorry state of the Heritage cars, which we all know or in their 60s and 70s, I say this is a very wise investment. For years the LD trains have been neglected, except maybe the CS and EB, so investing in them is a sign that Amtrak is actually thinking about them and not just letting them wither away.

I don't understand, so they're going to mix Viewliners and Superliners on the same routes? Or are the doing away with Superliners on the CNO and other Superliner routes?

I think he was referring to the Crescent, not the CONO. I don't think anything is going to happen to the Superliners, though I could be wrong.

Ok, the Crescent, and I suppose the LSL too.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Ok...I'm getting jealous here.... :angry: So the stimulus money is going only toward building Viewliner equipment? Will there be money to "fix" the Superliner equipment? I have been on the CZ and been told, "if we could get more equipment, we would have a 3rd sleeper all the time" instead of just the summer months from CHI-DEN. And when they do put on the 3rd sleeper in the summer months, where do they pull that sleeper from?

 

[Rafi]

Let's not assume the stimulus money is ONLY going to get the rolling stock we learned about today. The meeting was for Virginia services, so that's why we talked about single level rolling stock. Who knows what the plans are for double deckers. But to be fair, keep in mind that the single level diners and baggage cars (which I bet are older than a good portion of the people on this board) are literally dropping out of service faster than anyone is comfortable with. Something simply has to be done. I have to assume it's the #1 rolling stock priority for Amtrak as of today.

But just to clarify for PetalumaLoco, the sleepers and diners will affect the LSL, Crescent, Cardinal, Silver Meteor, and Silver Star at a minimum. The added availability of rolling stock also obviously makes other opportunities, like a resurrected Twilight Shoreliner, and a daily cardinal a possibility. The new baggage cars, however, will affect almost all mid to LD routes, including superliner trains.

Rafi

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Let's not assume the stimulus money is ONLY going to get the rolling stock we learned about today. The meeting was for Virginia services, so that's why we talked about single level rolling stock. Who knows what the plans are for double deckers. But to be fair, keep in mind that the single level diners and baggage cars (which I bet are older than a good portion of the people on this board) are literally dropping out of service faster than anyone is comfortable with. Something simply has to be done. I have to assume it's the #1 rolling stock priority for Amtrak as of today.
But just to clarify for PetalumaLoco, the sleepers and diners will affect the LSL, Crescent, Cardinal, Silver Meteor, and Silver Star at a minimum. The added availability of rolling stock also obviously makes other opportunities, like a resurrected Twilight Shoreliner, and a daily cardinal a possibility. The new baggage cars, however, will affect almost all mid to LD routes, including superliner trains.

Rafi

Rafi

Sorry to be a little too quick on the trigger, what you say makes perfect sense.

 

[MattW]

I've heard some talk about baggage dorms. Will this order include Viewliner Baggage dorms? Or just sleeprs, and maybe baggage?

[EDIT]Re-read original topic, we're not sure yet. Shouldn't post when I'm tired

 

[guestlsa]

well as LD on 19 this is good news . We told that suppose to be updating the diners . I cant wait they start putting the baggage on some these trains that really bad!

Let's not assume the stimulus money is ONLY going to get the rolling stock we learned about today. The meeting was for Virginia services, so that's why we talked about single level rolling stock. Who knows what the plans are for double deckers. But to be fair, keep in mind that the single level diners and baggage cars (which I bet are older than a good portion of the people on this board) are literally dropping out of service faster than anyone is comfortable with. Something simply has to be done. I have to assume it's the #1 rolling stock priority for Amtrak as of today.
But just to clarify for PetalumaLoco, the sleepers and diners will affect the LSL, Crescent, Cardinal, Silver Meteor, and Silver Star at a minimum. The added availability of rolling stock also obviously makes other opportunities, like a resurrected Twilight Shoreliner, and a daily cardinal a possibility. The new baggage cars, however, will affect almost all mid to LD routes, including superliner trains.

Rafi

 

[jackal]

Great announcement!

All Heritage equipment should be completely phased out once the new Viewliner order is filled. As new coach cars come online, Amfleets will begin to replace Horizon rolling stock.

This is the only thing that concerns me. Yes, we have a need to update the equipment, but we also have a tremendous need for new equipment. If Horizon rolling stock is still in usable condition, why not continue to use it and use the equipment to add needed services rather than just mothball them?

Amtrak is consistently short equipment, and this is a perfect opportunity to expand services!

Or am I missing something here?

 

[AlanB]

Great announcement!

All Heritage equipment should be completely phased out once the new Viewliner order is filled. As new coach cars come online, Amfleets will begin to replace Horizon rolling stock.

This is the only thing that concerns me. Yes, we have a need to update the equipment, but we also have a tremendous need for new equipment. If Horizon rolling stock is still in usable condition, why not continue to use it and use the equipment to add needed services rather than just mothball them?

Amtrak is consistently short equipment, and this is a perfect opportunity to expand services!

Or am I missing something here?

Well first off it remains to be seen if the Viewliner shell will even be used as the platform for new coaches, so we're getting way ahead of ourselves here with this question. But if that were to happen, then it comes down to mathmatics. If enough new coaches are ordered, then there is no need for the Horizons. If they don't order enough, then the Horizons may well stay in service.

 

[AlanB]

Again let me stress that nothing is official yet, even Rafi's news isn't a done deal. Amtrak is heading that one, but no contract has been singed and no monies have actually been paid for anything.

But that said, all indications that I've seen are for 75 new baggage cars that will double as both a baggage car and a crew dorm. This will allow the existing Superliner Trans/Dorms to become full passenger sleepers. No word if they will receive family rooms or bedrooms, or just retain the current configurations. But it will open up more sleeper compartments regardless.

Amtrak hopes to order 25 Viewliner sleepers, to beef up the fleet in the east. That most likely will lead to retoration of the overnight sleeper between Boston and DC, perhaps a daily Cardinal, a third sleeper for the Crescent and the Star, as well as a few more spares.

And of course they are looking for new dining cars to replace all the single level Heritage dining cars, as well as to restore a dining car on the LSL. No idea on whether the Card might see a real diner or not.

Right now the single level fleet is the top priority for Amtrak overall, as the current baggage cars are failing (and that does affect the bi-level trains too), the Heritage dining cars are in dire need of replacement, and the current Viewliner sleeper fleet is stretched beyond its limits.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

And I just got off of the Crescent at 6:45 in New Orleans, yes it was a full 45 minutes early, and the diner I ate in was awfully rough riding. It was almost impossible to eat due to the motion, although the OBS Chief came by an apologized for the rough ride and said running these antiques at 80mph through the swamp during dinner is a little ridiculous. Since I was a sleeper pax in room B on veiwliner 1910 I could easily compare the difference. I will be very grateful when they retire the old rust buckets they call diners and replace them with Viewliners.

I am sure this is merely a matter of opinion. And I am curious to what many of the others have to say about this one (especially the other experienced railroaders on here). But for the several years of my employment at Amtrak, I must disagree with you with the difference in the "ride quality" between the Viewliner sleepers and the Heritage diners and sleepers. The Heritage equipment is heavier than the current Viewliner equipment by a long shot. And I am sure there are some issues with how the Heritage equipment has been maintained in these last few years and the fact they are nearing the end of their useful life. But I must say I would rather retire for the night to one of the roomettes in one of the old Heritage crew dorms (old converted 10-6 sleepers which have been retired now) than to a delux bedroom on a Viewliner anytime! And I still would rather ride in a Heritage diner than in one of the Amfleet or Viewliner, too (which is one reason why I liked working the dining most of the time).

I seriously hope the new Viewliners (assuming they come to fruition-I'll believe it when I see it) will be a bit heavier and constructed in a more solid quality than the current fleet is. The Viewliner sleepers still ride better than the Amfleets, but the Budd built Amfleets (most in the 30yo age range) have held up so much better than the Veiwliner fleet (which made their debut in the 1990s) have.

OBS gone freight...

spelling stinks tonight....

 

[sechs]

Amtrak has taken the Surfliner configuration and standardized it as the model that is presented to states who need a starting point when deciding what to order.

Did he really say Surfliners? I'd expect that they'd start from the newer and slightly more generic California Cars.

 

[wayman]

And of course they are looking for new dining cars to replace all the single level Heritage dining cars, as well as to restore a dining car on the LSL. No idea on whether the Card might see a real diner or not.

... and then we can hope they'll take the diner-lites and start using them on the Adirondack and Vermonter as an upgrade from their cafe cars, and use the freed-up cafe cars for the new Regional trainsets Virginia will soon purchase.... For the cost of the six or seven diners to cover the Card and LSL, they'll get to upgrade the dining services of about twelve trainsets. Not bad

 

[amtrakwolverine]

how about with the new dining cars they bring back REAL dining service like better service and food.