Amtrak dining and cafe service

[jis]

Frankly I fail to understand why the Cafe LSA insists on going on lunch break in the middle of lunch hours., when they could easily do so during the shoulder hours. This happened consistently on the Silver Star the last few times I rode it. It did not directly affect me since I was not using Cafe service.

 

[user 14106]

Not unique - a total of eleven Superliner I coaches had snack bars added downstairs in the early 80s

So I take it the Heartland is just unique in that it’s the only train using the snack coach as designed - using the snack bar as the cafe car for the train.

 

[jis]

So I take it the Heartland is just unique in that it’s the only train using the snack coach as designed - using the snack bar as the cafe car for the train.

Doesn't Amtrak California have a few of those? They did for a while in the past IIRC.

 

[MARC Rider]

Texas Eagle had the snack coach back when it used to split. That would have been early 90’s I think.

Also, the Surfliner trains have bi-level snack coaches as well.

I rode a Capitol Corridor from Sacramento to the Bay area that had a Superliner in the consist that was a regular coach upstairs and a snack bar downstairs. It was kind of nice, because it had the full long-distance seat pitch and recline, whereas the other California cars in the consist were much more cramped. It was like business class for the price of coach.

 

[John Bredin]

So I take it the Heartland is just unique in that it’s the only train using the snack coach as designed - using the snack bar as the cafe car for the train.

Pere Marquette runs sometimes with two Superliners, neither is a Sightseer Lounge, and as far as I know there was still cafe service. I was presuming one of the two coaches was a snack coach.

 

[MARC Rider]

As Amtrak improves its dining service, one thing that I believe they need to be careful about is how they present the improvements. I think one of the reasons that the haters (hi, former representative Mica!) were able to attack it in the past is because Amtrak billed the experiences as fine, gourmet dining. They did stuff like contract with celebrity chefs and such to help plan menus and in marketing materials they advertised it like it was some kind of elite experience. This is a little out of sync with a company that justifies it's billion+ dollar taxpayer subsidy on the argument that's it's providing necessary transportation services to the masses. Sure, for a trip that lasts through several meal periods, they need to provide nutritious, appetizing food, but perhaps they should be marketing it as solid home-style diner food, not fancy-schmantzy gourmet chow. This not only provides better political cover for the subsidies, but lowers the expectations of the passengers, who might get their noses out of joint when the service isn't the exquisite white-tablecloth gourmet experience they were expecting based on the marketing materials. After all, one can always dine at a 5-star restaurant when one arrives at the destination, and, anyway, if the food is too fancy, a lot of people aren't going to like what's being served, even it's of the finest quality.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Frankly I fail to understand why the Cafe LSA insists on going on lunch break in the middle of lunch hours., when they could easily do so during the shoulder hours. This happened consistently on the Silver Star the last few times I rode it. It did not directly affect me since I was not using Cafe service.

When they do this on the Eaglette with only 1 LSA working the CCC, ( Diner/Cafe)that means the Car is Closed for an Hour during Meal times!

 

[joelkfla]

Frankly I fail to understand why the Cafe LSA insists on going on lunch break in the middle of lunch hours., when they could easily do so during the shoulder hours. This happened consistently on the Silver Star the last few times I rode it. It did not directly affect me since I was not using Cafe service.

Also dinner, which is even worse. I heard the Cafe attendant announce on P.A. that she was going on meal break around 5:30 p.m. and would reopen in 30 minutes. She actually reopened around 6:30 p.m.

If I ran the train, the Cafe would be required to be open between 11:30-1:30, and 5:30-7:00. If being assigned a 7 p.m. seating in the diner is good enought for SC passengers, then its certainly good enough for OBS.

 

[zephyr17]

Also dinner, which is even worse. I heard the Cafe attendant announce on P.A. that she was going on meal break around 5:30 p.m. and would reopen in 30 minutes. She actually reopened around 6:30 p.m.

If I ran the train, the Cafe would be required to be open between 11:30-1:30, and 5:30-7:00. If being assigned a 7 p.m. seating in the diner is good enought for SC passengers, then its certainly good enough for OBS.

I quite agree. However, if there was such a requirement, without actual onboard supervision, it will be probably be widely ignored by free range OBS staff, like many other policies set forth in the Service Standards manual.

 

[Willbridge]

On Trains 5/6, this past summer due to the ban on coach passengers in dining cars I was alert to any poor snack bar service. I was pleased to note that the attendants in both directions took their meal breaks with the dining car crew rather than closing up at passenger mealtimes. Maybe the incentive of eating with colleagues helps. Now if they can get rid of the pretend barricades of boxes in the lower level...

 

[Willbridge]

Is one reason that long distance dining cars lose money the relatively low volume of business in them?

With only two sleeping cars on many long distance trains, that’s a huge amount of overhead for just a few meals.

If that’s the case, then what I and others have proposed- expansions of sleeping car offerings to add a range of new rooms at a range of prices (particularly prices below current levels)- could also help dining cars lose less money (by bringing many more sleeping car passengers onboard).

Or, the Santa Fe way, attract coach passengers to eat selected meals in the dining car. Both of the attached promotions were in effect in the mid-1960's.

 

[bobmcshea]

Actually yes, a number of Department Stores over the past year reduced their floor count, and thus have fewer escalators to maintain, and less strain on elevators. Stores from Bloomingdale's, to Boscov's, to Macy's, to Nordstrom, to Saks 5th Avenue, all have closed off entire floors in lower volume suburban locations with more than 1 floor. Speaking of Department Stores one reason why there are fewer and fewer restaurants in these stores is that while they were never expected to make money, they still had a budget to say within, and when the losses got out of hand, it was time to let them go.

Ken

Reducing the floor count does not resolve the issue. The fact remains, that when a commercial operation has multiple levels (perhaps just two levels) and is open to the public, these institutions continue to provide elevators and/or escalators for customer (and non- customer) convenience. There are no direct charges to the public for their use. It may be included in the price of their wares, but non-buying visitors do not pay for their use. Further, ADA laws would not support such lack of access.

 

[Mailliw]

Random thought; would the Palmetto be a good candidate for traditional dining? It's not an overnight train, but it is still a long distance train. If not traditional dining would flexible dining and/or an expanded cafe menu?

 

[jis]

Random thought; would the Palmetto be a good candidate for traditional dining? It's not an overnight train, but it is still a long distance train. If not traditional dining would flexible dining and/or an expanded cafe menu?

Since there are not enough Dining Cars available even if all VL II Diners are deployed, traditional dining is pretty much out. Enhanced Cafe would be the way to go, which could include some Flex Dining items.

 

[user 14106]

Random thought; would the Palmetto be a good candidate for traditional dining? It's not an overnight train, but it is still a long distance train. If not traditional dining would flexible dining and/or an expanded cafe menu?

Currently only the Auto Train serves flexible dining meals for purchase in the cafe. That model might work. It should be noted however that the flex meals supplied by the New Horizons kitchen are not supposed to be microwave heated (even though yes you will see some LSAs do it) and the Amfleet 1 cafe used on the Palmetto has those older convection ovens that I’ve never seen used and they probably take a lot longer to heat meals than the high speed ovens they installed on the Amfleet 2 and Viewliner 2 diners.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Random thought; would the Palmetto be a good candidate for traditional dining? It's not an overnight train, but it is still a long distance train. If not traditional dining would flexible dining and/or an expanded cafe menu?

The Palmetto would be a great candidate for the original Cross Country Cafe idea or the original Bistro service on the Cascades. Basically.. there is a "chef / food specialist" on board and a kitchen that allows for a few items like oatmeal, soup, etc.

Would be interesting to see how many people would use a full diner - it's certainly something that Amtrak should consider testing.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Since there are not enough Dining Cars available even if all VL II Diners are deployed, traditional dining is pretty much out. Enhanced Cafe would be the way to go, which could include some Flex Dining items.

There are 26 Viewliner Diners on the Active Roster... how could there be "not enough"?

 

[jis]

There are 26 Viewliner Diners on the Active Roster... how could there be "not enough"?

At present there are only 17 or 18 on active roster. The rest are stored in mothballs with no plans to bring them out for several years. Maybe that will change and I think it should change so that at least the Crescent and if I had my druthers also the Cardinal could get the. Putting a Diner on all of them require 17 to be used and if one uses Amtrak's standard PM etc. and contingency you are left with only 1 after the existing overnight LD trains are equipped, mind you this is after they come out of Mothballs which currently has no due date. So yeah with a stretch maybe it can be managed but not very reliably given how the current maintenance cycles go.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

At present there are only 17 or 18 on active roster. The rest are stored in mothballs with no plans to bring them out for several years. Maybe that will change and I think it should change so that at least the Crescent and if I had my druthers also the Cardinal could get the. Putting a Diner on all of them require 17 to be used and if one uses Amtrak's standard PM etc. and contingency you are left with only 1 after the existing overnight LD trains are equipped, mind you this is after they come out of Mothballs which currently has no due date. So yeah with a stretch maybe it can be managed but not very reliably given how the current maintenance cycles go.

It takes 17 to equip Lake Shore, Silvers, and Crescent?

 

[jis]

It takes 17 to equip Lake Shore, Silvers, and Crescent?

and Cardinal.

Currently Crescent and Cardinal do not have Diners.

 

[TheCrescent]

and Cardinal.

Currently Crescent and Cardinal do not have Diners.

Didn’t Amtrak rename them “first class lounges”, at least on the Crescent?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

and Cardinal.

Currently Crescent and Cardinal do not have Diners.

I didn’t realize the cardinal ever had a diner.

So 17 to handle the silvers, crescent, lake shore, and Cardinal? Leave a spare and you have 8 more, so plenty to put some on the Palmetto if so desired.

 

[jis]

Didn’t Amtrak rename them “first class lounges”, at least on the Crescent?

I was talking of the hard product, a Viewliner Diner Car

Yes, the soft product is called a Sleeper Lounge for at least a little while longer, and they might indeed continue to be that even after Coach passenger are allowed to use the Dining service in those cars.

I didn’t realize the cardinal ever had a diner.

So 17 to handle the silvers, crescent, lake shore, and Cardinal? Leave a spare and you have 8 more, so plenty to put some on the Palmetto if so desired.

Their claim is they need 25 cars to put a Diner on all the single level Sleeper train after periodic maintenance incidental breakdowns and contingencies are taken care of. It has always seemed a bit hokey to me, but I don't run the railroad, they do.

I was actually told that that is the reason that there were also 25 Amfleet II lounges ordered, and received. I was wondering why 25 and asked. Similarly, the 25 additional VLII Sleepers theoretically is supposed allow addition of one Sleeper to each train.

 

[user 14106]

I didn’t realize the cardinal ever had a diner.

So 17 to handle the silvers, crescent, lake shore, and Cardinal? Leave a spare and you have 8 more, so plenty to put some on the Palmetto if so desired.

Correct - Amtrak has stated as mentioned by jis above that they don’t plan to exit any diners from storage absent a business line decision to change food service formats on a route - they aren’t going to just overhaul all the non revenue equipment no matter what as they are for revenue cars - cars will be overhauled if a business line decision is made to send them somewhere. So if they decide to, say add traditional dining back to the Crescent in FY24, then only then would they schedule the needed diners for overhaul so the time to implement this from decision to service on the train would take some time. I honestly don’t see any decisions like that until they are essentially caught up and in a good place on revenue cars and all Superliner/Viewliner refreshes are done.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Their claim is they need 25 cars to put a Diner on all the single level Sleeper train after periodic maintenance incidental breakdowns and contingencies are taken care of. It has always seemed a bit hokey to me, but I don't run the railroad, they do.

Ohhh interesting. Seems like a lot of spares but as you said, it’s there railroad to run! Haha