Amtrak dining and cafe service

[joelkfla]

Hope this is an appropriate thread to post a menu and meal from the City of New Orleans (Northbound) on 2/21.

Menu is photocopy found in room. Meal is the Roasted Sweet Potato found on the dinner menu.

All meals served by delivery to sleeper rooms, with orders being taken very shortly after departure and all meals served between roughly 5:30 and 6:00 pm. Main course served with drink and the packaged brownie I'm sure we've all seen.

I enjoyed the flavor of the Roasted Sweet Potato meal, though as you can see from the picture, the presentation wasn't particularly special. The rice was cooked into a bit of a monolithic block, which just broke into chunks when "forked".

Two others in group had the pork tenderloin. Afraid I don't have photos, but both said it was "fine".

Leaving from New Orleans during Mardi Gras, we brought a King Cake on board and enjoyed it in the lounge car much later that night.

At least they had a selection of Café Car items for lunch. I'd prefer that to having to choose from the few Flex options for both lunch & dinner.

 

[TaseMeBro]

The current dinner meals on the CONO are, literally, microwave frozen TV dinners that any consumer can buy from a company called Torn Apron. The reason for this is because right now the Sightseer Lounge is the only food service car on the train it lost its diner a little bit ago and the cafe car section of the Sightseers is only equipped with a microwave - no oven of any kind. The normal flexible meals are prepared by an outsourced kitchen vendor in New York and are essentially airline meals and they are supposed to be heated in an oven they are not intended for microwave preparation and microwave heating results in an unfavorable outcome. Due to the CONO only having a microwave at the moment they're using this different product for the dinners which is microwave friendly and for breakfast and lunch its a selection from the cafe menu.

Indeed - also worth pointing out they closed the cafe to passengers completely for maybe an hour as it was used to warm/prep and bag the meals for delivery to sleeper car pax.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Indeed - also worth pointing out they closed the cafe to passengers completely for maybe an hour as it was used to warm/prep and bag the meals for delivery to sleeper car pax.

Happens on the Texas Eaglette and Cap Ltd also, where One LSA serves both Sleeper and Coach Passengers.

 

[dburden]

I'm on train #49 now, running about 50 down, at the Syracuse station. I had dinner (flex food) but in the dining car. From all the posts it sounded like I would have to eat in my room or the cafe car. Nice atmosphere and the short ribs were pretty good.

 

[user 14106]

According to a post in one of the FB groups coach access to the diner will begin on March 1 departures from origin terminals.

 

[NYP2NFL01]

Rumors are now flying fast and furious, all apparently sourced from various Silver Service crew members that Traditional Dining is likely to be reinstated on Silver Service around the middle of March. So we shall see how that goes.

If that happens then those of us that are traveling to Alexandria later in the month for the RPA Council Meeting and Day on the Hill will get to experience it.

Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' (couldn't find emojis for wishin' and hopin')!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

According to a post in one of the FB groups coach access to the diner will begin on March 1 departures from origin terminals.

The five routes are the California Zephyr, Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited, and Coast Starlight.

 

[JWM]

A properly staffed Superliner Dining Car, that seats 80, could reasonably turn tables four times. A reduced-price menu for coach could be the first and last sittings. The "real" CZ did that and Santa Fe sold meal packages too. If Amtrak is serious about the red ink, here is one place to start while keeping in mind that dining service never made money for the railroads when they ran the trains. Sittings could be 5, 6:15, 7:30 and 8:45 pm

 

[joelkfla]

If Amtrak is serious about the red ink, here is one place to start while keeping in mind that dining service never made money for the railroads when they ran the trains.

This seems self-contradictory. If "dining service never made money for the railroads," how would it help with red ink? Perhaps I missed your point.

 

[OBS]

A properly staffed Superliner Dining Car, that seats 80, could reasonably turn tables four times. A reduced-price menu for coach could be the first and last sittings. The "real" CZ did that and Santa Fe sold meal packages too. If Amtrak is serious about the red ink, here is one place to start while keeping in mind that dining service never made money for the railroads when they ran the trains. Sittings could be 5, 6:15, 7:30 and 8:45 pm

A "properly staffed" diner, in order to do four seatings, means four Waiters, an LSA, and 2 if not 3 people in the kitchen. You will then increase rather than decrease the red ink.

 

[Steve4031]

Hope this is an appropriate thread to post a menu and meal from the City of New Orleans (Northbound) on 2/21.

Menu is photocopy found in room. Meal is the Roasted Sweet Potato found on the dinner menu.

All meals served by delivery to sleeper rooms, with orders being taken very shortly after departure and all meals served between roughly 5:30 and 6:00 pm. Main course served with drink and the packaged brownie I'm sure we've all seen.

I enjoyed the flavor of the Roasted Sweet Potato meal, though as you can see from the picture, the presentation wasn't particularly special. The rice was cooked into a bit of a monolithic block, which just broke into chunks when "forked".

Two others in group had the pork tenderloin. Afraid I don't have photos, but both said it was "fine".

Leaving from New Orleans during Mardi Gras, we brought a King Cake on board and enjoyed it in the lounge car much later that night.

That’s a better lunch menu. I like the sandwich options.

 

[jis]

This seems self-contradictory. If "dining service never made money for the railroads," how would it help with red ink? Perhaps I missed your point.

Perhaps they mean that the losses may be reduced if more people are fed. This would be true if the staff cost remained the same, or at least the incremental labor cost is less than the incremental revenue. I don't believe that to be the case from the numbers that I have seen, so this just remains a wishful thinking perhaps.

We really need to get off this Micamatics of trying to treat F&B as a separate profit center and take the whole service viewed together and look at the relationship for the entire ball of wax as a single P&L item.

Look at what is happening with the international airlines, which have slowly come to the conclusion that even if they spend a whole boatload of money on providing great service, including good food service up front, they can charge absurdly high fares and come out ahead overall. Amtrak at present is trying to do the latter without balancing it out with the former. They do have a captive market to keep going for a while (if they can limit capacity enough to let eh elasticity in the customer's willingness to pay), and that is why for now they are doing OK. The question is for how long. It should be acknowledged though that at least there is a bit of a movement towards improving some service, though until they get off the philosophy of not bringing back into service the necessary non-transportation revenue cars (Diners, SSLs etc.) this is only a half hearted attempt.

 

[railiner]

This seems self-contradictory. If "dining service never made money for the railroads," how would it help with red ink? Perhaps I missed your point.

In the case of the heritage railroads, some of them believed that the diner was a “loss leader”, and that providing the best service would attract more business, both passenger and freight, since in the pre air age, decision makers traveled by rail…

 

[MikefromCrete]

In the case of the heritage railroads, some of them believed that the diner was a “loss leader”, and that providing the best service would attract more business, both passenger and freight, since in the pre air age, decision makers traveled by rail…

According to railfan lore, only the New Haven railroad made money on its food and beverage service. Everybody else lost money, but offered good food and service as a matter of prestige --- and to influence the barons of industry who could decide how to route freight traffic.

 

[zephyr17]

In the case of the heritage railroads, some of them believed that the diner was a “loss leader”, and that providing the best service would attract more business, both passenger and freight, since in the pre air age, decision makers traveled by rail…

And, not dissimilar to Amtrak, it became the target of cost saving cuts in the face of passenger losses by some railroads as they realized that shippers/decision makers were flying. I am thinking of Espee here, which I am the most familiar with, with their automat cars and, less heinously, hamburger grill cars. Others, like Santa Fe and UP, kept standards up to the end as matter of corporate image and pride.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Airlines and hotels don’t make money with food and beverage either (with some exceptions of course…)

The current solution on the non-traditional dining trains is probably the worst business move since you are taking away time that the lounge car can be open and serving.

The sleeping car attendants should be in charge of delivering pre-made meals like they do on the Portland section of the empire builder - that leaves the LSA taking money from the coach passengers.

 

[Siegmund]

A properly staffed Superliner Dining Car, that seats 80, could reasonably turn tables four times. A reduced-price menu for coach could be the first and last sittings. The "real" CZ did that and Santa Fe sold meal packages too. If Amtrak is serious about the red ink, here is one place to start while keeping in mind that dining service never made money for the railroads when they ran the trains. Sittings could be 5, 6:15, 7:30 and 8:45 pm

And that is exactly what Amtrak did, for several decades. They turned the people over faster than that, though - the 4 seatings were 45 minutes apart. They really hustled at dinnertime.
And they did it because that many people wanted to eat -- 3 seatings with every seat taken did not meet the demand! Every time I rode the Starlight, Builder, or CZ in the 80s or 90s, they were selling 250 or 300 dinners per day. Same deal with multiple seatings of 48 people each instead of 72 on eastern trains.

Yes, that requires more staff. But selling 150 breakfasts and lunches and 250 dinners is something between $10k and $20k in sales per day that has been left on the table. I would think that that a couple thousand dollars a day would pay the salaries of an extra cook and a couple extra waiters.

 

[John Bobinyec]

When does the Silver Meteor serve lunch? I'll be getting on 98 at Kissimmee soon, at 1257P (if the train is on time). I'll be in a sleeper. Should I expect lunch that day?

jb

 

[pennyk]

When does the Silver Meteor serve lunch? I'll be getting on 98 at Kissimmee soon, at 1257P (if the train is on time). I'll be in a sleeper. Should I expect lunch that day?

jb

Yes, you should get lunch. I get lunch when I board in Orlando.

 

[fillyjonk]

A lot of this, the more I think about it, seems to be EVERY service provider (with the possible exception of the super high end ones, for folks far richer than I am) is reducing the service/amenities/quality as much as they can, until they start to see massive customer declines, and then maybe improve it a little bit. The future is just going to be "the bare minimum that's acceptable." I assume the eastern leg of the Eagle will never have proper meals again. That's sad and unfortunate but obviously Amtrak has decided it's acceptable. (And anyway:if one were to fly from, say, Dallas to Chicago, I doubt one would get a snack and beverage).

 

[jis]

A lot of this, the more I think about it, seems to be EVERY service provider (with the possible exception of the super high end ones, for folks far richer than I am) is reducing the service/amenities/quality as much as they can, until they start to see massive customer declines, and then maybe improve it a little bit. The future is just going to be "the bare minimum that's acceptable." I assume the eastern leg of the Eagle will never have proper meals again. That's sad and unfortunate but obviously Amtrak has decided it's acceptable. (And anyway:if one were to fly from, say, Dallas to Chicago, I doubt one would get a snack and beverage).

AFAICT on every Dallas to Chicago flight that United flies one gets a full meal in First Class. In Coach there is complementary non-alcoholic beverage service snacks are available for purchase. The equipment is either Airbus 319 or Boeing 737-800.

 

[Bob Dylan]

AFAICT on every Dallas to Chicago flight that United flies one gets a full meal in First Class. In Coach there is snacks available to purchase. The equipment is either Airbus 319 or Boeing 737-800.

Ditto for Austin to Chicago.

The Texas Eaglette in a Roomette, with 5 Flex Meals in the CCC= 28-30 Hours/ $600-$1,000 (most days, when Available!!!)

Airline Flights Many) =3 Hours/ $75-$200/ Snacks and Drinks as Jis said

 

[joelkfla]

When does the Silver Meteor serve lunch? I'll be getting on 98 at Kissimmee soon, at 1257P (if the train is on time). I'll be in a sleeper. Should I expect lunch that day?

jb

Amtrak website:

Flex dining:


Traditional dining (coming soon):

Since the train originates in Miami, lunch will be in progress when you board. It's less certain when a train originates during a meal period. But if the Meteor is running a couple of hours late, you might miss lunch.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

if one were to fly from, say, Dallas to Chicago, I doubt one would get a snack and beverage

If I don't get my club soda and Biscoff cookies.... Did I even fly???

Amtrak clearly knows the flex meals are not popular. There really is a staffing issue. Now they may be dragfing their feet longer they need to but they are moving in the right direction. They just got held up in a siding haha.

 

[Seaboarder3023]

Amtrak clearly knows the flex meals are not popular. There really is a staffing issue. Now they may be dragging their feet longer they need to but they are moving in the right direction. They just got held up in a siding haha.

I agree. I do believe Amtrak plans to reinstate Traditional Dining on ALL LD trains at some point (thanks to the F&B Commission), but it will definitely take a couple years before that happens.