Amtrak ending BC on AT and Crescent May 1st

[Lonestar648]

Saw that Amtrak is ending Business Class on the Auto Train and the Crescent due to a lack of passengers. Supposedly, taking coach seats away for BC, raises the overall coach fare. and if few choose the BC, then Amtrak is loosing money.

 

[Thirdrail7]

We were covering this in their respective threads:

Business Class Coming to Auto Train Feb 1, 2016

and

Business Class on the Crescent

 

[dlagrua]

I would guess that the bulk of the A/T ridership are retired snowbirds who are on a fixed income and choose coach. As such cost is most likely a factor in choosing their class of service. As for the Crescent, it is a mystery to me why BC was not popular. Maybe the price was too high.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

When I was on the LSL I remember Business Class was on one side of the Café/Lounge and I hardly saw anyone if anyone using it. That left one car for everyone else, including the crew (there is an active thread about the topic).

 

[Larry H.]

I haven't ridden Business class for several years but the last time I did on the Saluki to Chicago the prices were several times what they were in years past. I still think Amtrak is flirting with danger in charging such huge prices and giving very little in return.

 

[Lonestar648]

Some BC is 2+1, what were these trains? A friends told me 2+2, if so what is the benefit for the stiff price increase?

 

[Trogdor]

We were covering this in their respective threads:

Business Class Coming to Auto Train Feb 1, 2016

and

Business Class on the Crescent

Which one would never guess by the thread titles, which make no reference to service ending.

 

[Trogdor]

I haven't ridden Business class for several years but the last time I did on the Saluki to Chicago the prices were several times what they were in years past. I still think Amtrak is flirting with danger in charging such huge prices and giving very little in return.

If they’re selling tickets at those prices, then why not?

 

[GaSteve]

Some BC is 2+1, what were these trains? A friends told me 2+2, if so what is the benefit for the stiff price increase?

On the Crescent, it was just a 2+2 Amfleet coach that was behind the sleepers so as to cut down on traffic through the car.

 

[xyzzy]

I wonder if BC on the Carolinian and Palmetto will go next. Because most coach seats on the Carolinian are Amfleet I, a case can be made that BC provides an upgrade (BC generally uses Amfleet II). But on the Palmetto, most coach seats are Amfleet II anyway.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The Carolinian is state supported and they are paying for extra BC amenities including pillows and a dedicated BC attendant.

 

[jis]

I highly doubt that BC will disappear from any Corridor trains that currently have them and are selling them well. I cannot think of any Corridor trains out of New York that are in the danger of losing BC.

What happens to BC in LD trains which was started as an experiment within the last couple of years, is no indication for what will happen with BC on trains that have had them for like forever (in Amtrak terms).

 

[Anderson]

So, there seem to have been two problems with this experiment:
(1) BC was "buried" under the "Premium" label on the website beneath the sleepers. This is a nasty pattern Amtrak has had for a long time: Add a new amenity or an improvement, fail to make casual travelers aware of it when booking/buying, and then wonder why it failed. The same fate befell the heated meals on the Silver Starvation: Nobody bought them, I suspect in no small part because Amtrak made absolutely no attempt to advertise them (and if anything, did their best to camoflauge them on the cafe menu so as to not attract attention).

(2) BC didn't really offer much of anything net of an LD coach seat (save maybe getting a single seat), so I suspect plenty of folks who might have considered it would just throw down for a sleeper and call it a day while there wasn't much, if anything, to really "upsell" a coach passenger (free soda doesn't quite cut it IMHO). It's sort-of like the situation with BC on many European airlines' shorter flights: The seats are the same (or close enough to it) that if the airline isn't throwing in a meal, there's not much of a point unless you really want to have that middle seat blocked out. Even something such as guaranteed diner access with a diner-only voucher for $5-10 would likely have made it a more palatable deal. I think this really went double on the Auto Train (since meals were already included for coach pax, so there wasn't much, if anything, to "upsell" folks on).

 

[StriderGDM]

BC on the Crescent the one time I took it was worth it. Definitely quieter and more room.
That said, a 2+1 would have been far more preferable.

Or include meals.

It wasn't a great upsell, but was nice.

I'll miss it, but won't mourn it.

 

[SubwayNut]

Happy to hear that the Lake Shore isnt losing buissiness class. Will pay for the 2 x 1 seating the next time I need to get to Syracuse by myself from South Bend. If my partners with me it will be Coach (would like to snuggle up, which you cant do in Buissiness class) or ideally Sleeper (which are so frightlfully expensive thats weve been driving and paying for 1 night in a hotel I each direction since its cheaper).

 

[xyzzy]

On most trains in the UK, business or first class means 2x1. On many Asian routes, business or first class means 2x2 instead of 2x3. Making Amtrak LD BC 2x1 would probably attract buyers, but it would cost money to implement and reduce capacity somewhat. The question is price elasticity of demand for the upgrade.

 

[jis]

In India on prestige AC day trains like the Shatabdi Expresses there are two classes: Chair Car (equivalent of Coach) which is 3-2 seating and Executive Class (equivalent of BC) which is 2-2 seating. On Shatabdis food service at seat is included in the fare. There ar other trains where it is not.

On certain special services like the international service between India and Bangladesh instead of the Executive Class there is what is called First Class, where the hard product is the same as the First AC Sleepers on overnight prestige trains in India, but here used as seating accommodation in cabins. Food is available at seat but I believe it is not included in the fare.

But in all cases, there is a distinct hard product for the upper class, and the soft product varies depending on the specific service.

There are myriads of non-AC services available which I am not touching here since they are not of relevance here.

 

[Palmetto]

Pulled from the Politico's daily news digest:

Amtrak has discontinued business class on its Auto Train and Crescent routes due to "insufficient differentiation" between that and coach, spokesman Marc Magliari told MT this week. "Amtrak continues to offer customers a variety of Coach and Sleeping accommodations for travel on both services and is working to make the customer experience more consistent across the network," he said.

I hope the last statement means 2-1 club seating. He's certainly right on the "insufficient differentiation" part, especially on east coast trains.

 

[dlagrua]

When we last traveled on the Cardinal three years ago the BC car appeared to be a closed cafe/lounge car with limited two/one row seating. It might have been an old Metroliner club car It.was quiet and less crowded than coach but it appeared that many travelers didn't opt for the up-charge.

 

[Lonestar648]

The Crescent BC has only been in operation for about two years, I think.

 

[Anderson]

The Cardinal's BC was, depending on what was available, either 2-1 seating in a half-cafe half-BC car or Regional BC but with only half of the seats sold (due to the former situation) and thus guaranteed use of a second seat, but also less recline than in coach.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Making Amtrak LD BC 2x1 would probably attract buyers, but it would cost money to implement and reduce capacity somewhat.

How much money would it cost to simply block one column of seats at booking time? That way you'd end up with 2x1 seating without having to modify or retrofit any of Amtrak's hardware. You could also dynamically auto-adjust available business class seats by rows instead of entire cars based on demand. That way no more than a row or two of buffer space would be "wasted" on business class. This is very similar to how regional length business class is handled on some European airlines. But, it also has the distinction of being very efficient and I don't think that's something Amtrak appreciates.

 

[Lonestar648]

The reduced capacity evidently raises the Coach fares quicker. When you reduce capacity to sell BC, but few buy, then the revenue takes a big hit.

 

[Trogdor]

Making Amtrak LD BC 2x1 would probably attract buyers, but it would cost money to implement and reduce capacity somewhat.

How much money would it cost to simply block one column of seats at booking time? That way you'd end up with 2x1 seating without having to modify or retrofit any of Amtrak's hardware.

All this does is give (potentially, if the whole car is sold) 2/3 of the business class passengers the exact same experience as coach, for a higher price, while 1/3 of the passengers get twice as much space. That just makes the inconsistency worse, which is one of the major problems with Business Class on Amtrak (and has been for years). If anything, you'd have to block 50% of the space to give everybody their own seat pair. Then the question becomes, are passengers willing to pay essentially twice as much for business class vs. coach, because that's what they're taking up.

You could also dynamically auto-adjust available business class seats by rows instead of entire cars based on demand. That way no more than a row or two of buffer space would be "wasted" on business class. This is very similar to how regional length business class is handled on some European airlines. But, it also has the distinction of being very efficient and I don't think that's something Amtrak appreciates.

This has a bit more merit, though without extra amenities, it still becomes questionable value to passengers to get essentially the same product as other passengers for quite a bit more money. Since you're in the same car as other coach passengers, you don't get reduced foot traffic / noise, you get the same atmosphere as coach, same seats as coach, and (under current setup), little to nothing extra in terms of service. So...what's the point?

 

[cpotisch]

Making Amtrak LD BC 2x1 would probably attract buyers, but it would cost money to implement and reduce capacity somewhat.

How much money would it cost to simply block one column of seats at booking time? That way you'd end up with 2x1 seating without having to modify or retrofit any of Amtrak's hardware.

All this does is give (potentially, if the whole car is sold) 2/3 of the business class passengers the exact same experience as coach, for a higher price, while 1/3 of the passengers get twice as much space. That just makes the inconsistency worse, which is one of the major problems with Business Class on Amtrak (and has been for years). If anything, you'd have to block 50% of the space to give everybody their own seat pair. Then the question becomes, are passengers willing to pay essentially twice as much for business class vs. coach, because that's what they're taking up.

You could also dynamically auto-adjust available business class seats by rows instead of entire cars based on demand. That way no more than a row or two of buffer space would be "wasted" on business class. This is very similar to how regional length business class is handled on some European airlines. But, it also has the distinction of being very efficient and I don't think that's something Amtrak appreciates.

Since you're in the same car as other coach passengers, you don't get reduced foot traffic / noise, you get the same atmosphere as coach, same seats as coach, and (under current setup), little to nothing extra in terms of service. So...what's the point?

The only point in that scenario would be maybe a better change/refund policy and coupon(s) to use in the diner or lounge (or maybe free diner meals altogether. The physical experience would have to be identical, which is does make it a much harder sell.