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Disappointing, but not surprising.
I like this phrase:
"Amtrak’s peculiar legal status makes it unclear what agency in the US, if any, has jurisdiction over false statements by Amtrak to its customers and passengers."
As if there would be any criminal law violated by Amtrak (or any other company) that made false statements to its customers. Can you imagine: "I'd like to press charges on the Dining Car waiter because he told me that lunch is not provided on the Eastbound Capitol Limited (a false statement)." Lock em' up!
"Amtrak’s peculiar legal status makes it unclear what agency in the US, if any, has jurisdiction over false statements by Amtrak to its customers and passengers."
As if there would be any criminal law violated by Amtrak (or any other company) that made false statements to its customers. Can you imagine: "I'd like to press charges on the Dining Car waiter because he told me that lunch is not provided on the Eastbound Capitol Limited (a false statement)." Lock em' up!
tommylicious
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2013
- Messages
- 599
who cares...honestly. i want them watching the trains to keep the whackadoos off.
FriskyFL
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2008
- Messages
- 782
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
Big Brother is watching you.
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I'm with Tommylicious and FriskyFL on this one. To me, the people that churned up that diatribe (and I did suffer through it) are in the same category as muckrakers. They're the same types who whimper and snivel about invasion of privacy when somebody posts a dirty picture of themselves on social media, it goes viral and ends up on ABC Nightly News. While licensed to carry a concealed weapon by my state of residence, Amtrak policy prohibits me from doing so while aboard. Nice to know there might possibly be somebody else proactively looking out for my (and your) safety.
Don't like it? Walkin' ain't crowded! Just my US2¢ worth.
Don't like it? Walkin' ain't crowded! Just my US2¢ worth.
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Ryan
Court Jester
There are tons and tons of legitimate concerns out there, but I can't get worked up over Amtrak Police having access to Amtrak reservations data. That's kind of their job.
Caesar La Rock
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 716
With all this privacy violation and police spying going on throughout the country, this isn't surprising. In fact I already knew it was happening with Amtrak, so this isn't new.
I would've responded to this earlier, but I got interrupted by the Two Minutes Hate.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 4,893
Round up the usual suspects.
SANSR
Train Attendant
Well stated.
DryCreek
Lead Service Attendant
Yes. So many people are unclear on this. If caught, it is only a violation of Amtrak Policy, not any federal or (in Texas, Oklahoma, NM or Arizona state law). I don't think that they'd have room to post the required notice on every door of every car. But still, I'd hate to have to find my own way home from some podunk flag stop if they found out!
I'd be quite concerned if they didn't have the data.
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NW cannonball
Conductor
Just so.
My city police have access to my name, home address, drivers license, criminal record, etc. No worries.
If they might be selling all this info to telemarketers, or "data-driven" other law-enforcers that statistically target, say all surnames "Gonzales" or "two Feathers", or all persons with credit rating under 795, yeah, that would be a problem.
But that's a different issue.
Alexandria Nick
Lead Service Attendant
What liberty was traded off?
DryCreek
Lead Service Attendant
Wow, you really don't know?
OK, let me help you out here:
Any time a police agency gets information - of any nature - it is recorded and filed. Information that is recorded and filed can be later cross referenced and accessed at any time. Why would they need to keep tabs on every Amtrak passenger that has traveled at any time with them?
I know, it is just a redundant record that could also be generated by Amtrak, after a subpoena or court order. But, since they already have access to those records, and it can be shared with any other police agency, they won't need to go to the courts to develop a tracking program for any one person, a group of persons - or everybody.
Oh, I know, if I have nothing to hide.........
Ryan
Court Jester
Given that APD is a part of Amtrak, I'm failing to see the outrage and confused as to why you think that a subpoena would be needed for someone at Amtrak to access passenger data.
"The sky is falling" outrage about things like this detract attention from the very real issues that exist out there.
"The sky is falling" outrage about things like this detract attention from the very real issues that exist out there.
Please try to keep your posts on topic - relating to Amtrak. Thank you.
oldtimer
OBS Chief
This is a copy of a statement from the Amtrak Inspector General:
SECRETARY PROVIDES CONFIDENTIAL PNR INFORMATION FOR PAYMENT SEPTEMBER 30, 2014 CASE OIG-I-2014-513
A secretary to a Train and Engine crew regularly provided confidential Passenger Name Reservation (PNR) information to US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents without seeking approval from Amtrak management or the Amtrak Police Department (APD). The employee received $854,460 in payment from DEA for this information from 1995 to the present. APD and DEA participate in a joint drug enforcement task force. The drug task force members can obtain Amtrak PNR information from APD task force members at no cost. The actions of the secretary prevented APD from jointly working with DEA in narcotics trafficking on Amtrak property, thus depriving APD from receiving $854,460 in asset forfeiture funds. The secretary was removed from service and chose to retire. The employee was subsequently dismissed as the result of a formal hearing.
As you can see the sale of this information can be very lucrative. That is one hell of an Amtrak retirement benefit!
SECRETARY PROVIDES CONFIDENTIAL PNR INFORMATION FOR PAYMENT SEPTEMBER 30, 2014 CASE OIG-I-2014-513
A secretary to a Train and Engine crew regularly provided confidential Passenger Name Reservation (PNR) information to US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents without seeking approval from Amtrak management or the Amtrak Police Department (APD). The employee received $854,460 in payment from DEA for this information from 1995 to the present. APD and DEA participate in a joint drug enforcement task force. The drug task force members can obtain Amtrak PNR information from APD task force members at no cost. The actions of the secretary prevented APD from jointly working with DEA in narcotics trafficking on Amtrak property, thus depriving APD from receiving $854,460 in asset forfeiture funds. The secretary was removed from service and chose to retire. The employee was subsequently dismissed as the result of a formal hearing.
As you can see the sale of this information can be very lucrative. That is one hell of an Amtrak retirement benefit!
NW cannonball
Conductor
Does Amtrak have a "privacy policy" that one must click through to buy a ticket?
Yup oldtimer, some insider sold semi-private data to an agency of government for lotsa dollars. Was anyone harmed (except us taxpayers)?
Happens all the time in private enterprise (every click you take, every step you make, sold for USD 0.00001 to any dot.com (or kgb.ru (kidding) or )
As for what the DEA paid -- probably a waste of funds (my personal opinion is that most of the DEA budget is a waste of funds - but that gets off-topic)
About the IG report, in this case and others - Amtrak is on a starvation budget. So it's not surprising that underpaid and underskilled management miss a lot of problems.
About Amtrak police -- the very few times I've seen them -- slightly above average for police -- Way better than say Ferguson police --
APD - no budget to hassle passengers, just keep it calm - eject stowaways - restrain crazies. Ok by me.
Amtrak police - never hassled me on any train.
Amtrak central management - the underpaid Pentagon of Amtrak -- who knows.
I think discussion of industrial espionage and the sleazy data-collection (big data) industry belongs elsewhere. Amtrak hasn't yet lost my credit-card info to the world-wide Mafia.
Yup oldtimer, some insider sold semi-private data to an agency of government for lotsa dollars. Was anyone harmed (except us taxpayers)?
Happens all the time in private enterprise (every click you take, every step you make, sold for USD 0.00001 to any dot.com (or kgb.ru (kidding) or )
As for what the DEA paid -- probably a waste of funds (my personal opinion is that most of the DEA budget is a waste of funds - but that gets off-topic)
About the IG report, in this case and others - Amtrak is on a starvation budget. So it's not surprising that underpaid and underskilled management miss a lot of problems.
About Amtrak police -- the very few times I've seen them -- slightly above average for police -- Way better than say Ferguson police --
APD - no budget to hassle passengers, just keep it calm - eject stowaways - restrain crazies. Ok by me.
Amtrak police - never hassled me on any train.
Amtrak central management - the underpaid Pentagon of Amtrak -- who knows.
I think discussion of industrial espionage and the sleazy data-collection (big data) industry belongs elsewhere. Amtrak hasn't yet lost my credit-card info to the world-wide Mafia.
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white rabbitt
Lead Service Attendant
why would the Pooo-lice worry about someone named 2 feathers
Amtrak Police are 2 busy try to track down that BBQ train hopping
Jim Hudson
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