Amtrak Marketing

[Palmland]

We have all lamented the lack of Amtrak marketing outside the NEC. And, honestly, it’s hard to see much merit on marketing a service for the LD network that is so inconsistent, and arguable deteriorating, that it might be a waste of money until service levels improve.

Nevertheless, I was surprised to receive this email:

This appeared to be quite professional and it was interesting that the questions were directed to determining how Amtrak stacks up against other modes of transportation including auto, ride share, rental, RV, and plane for different lengths of trips: 75+miles, 75-500, more than 500. Aside from obvious questions about comfort and convenience it also touched on safety and sustainability.

So, let’s hope Amtrak marketing is waking up. They have a long way to go!

 

[PaTrainFan]

Ipsos is a top drawer polling and research company and will do a highly professioal job. I just wish I had gotten this survey.

 

[west point]

What marketing is neeed? Sold out means why worrry? WAmtrak is going to cancel some reservations anyway. Why get postential passengers hopes up to squash them later?

 

[joelkfla]

We have all lamented the lack of Amtrak marketing outside the NEC. And, honestly, it’s hard to see much merit on marketing a service for the LD network that is so inconsistent, and arguable deteriorating, that it might be a waste of money until service levels improve.

Nevertheless, I was surprised to receive this email:
View attachment 29248
This appeared to be quite professional and it was interesting that the questions were directed to determining how Amtrak stacks up against other modes of transportation including auto, ride share, rental, RV, and plane for different lengths of trips: 75+miles, 75-500, more than 500. Aside from obvious questions about comfort and convenience it also touched on safety and sustainability.

So, let’s hope Amtrak marketing is waking up. They have a long way to go!

I got this email, but after entering my age, gender, and race (senior white mail), it said they weren't interested.

 

[Palmland]

I got this email, but after entering my age, gender, and race (senior white mail), it said they weren't interested.

Maybe they had enough of our demographic when you responded!

I also wonder if it was geared to Florida travelers since it had some questions about Brightline.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

By the way, Amtrak does have marketing for the NEC, but it’s not perfect.

The Phillies radio station runs an Amtrak ad saying take the train to the baseball games in New York or Washington or other cities in the northeast. Makes it sound like the train goes right to all the stadiums instead of you having to get off the train and take commuter rail or subways or whatever.

And it also says sit back and enjoy the views (what views? Yes, there are some, but also a lot of graffiti and derelict buildings) and dream of the vibrant sunsets at the stadium (sunset watchers and Phillies fans are not the same group, at least not at the same time!).

So yes there’s Amtrak marketing for the NEC but it doesn’t sound like anyone put a lot of thought into the target audience.

 

[TheCrescent]

What marketing is neeed? Sold out means why worrry? WAmtrak is going to cancel some reservations anyway. Why get postential passengers hopes up to squash them later?

Because Amtrak can mostly sell out short long-distance trains, with no marketing whatsoever, and these days those trains lose money.

With a modest increase in ridership, long-distance trains could break even. It shouldn’t be that hard to have a modest increase in ridership.

Given how many people take Amtrak when its services are largely unknown, imagine what ridership could be if its services were well-known.

Marketing should be able to be a cost-effective way to move Amtrak to (some range of) self-sufficiency.

 

[zephyr17]

With a modest increase in ridership, long-distance trains could break even. It shouldn’t be that hard to have a modest increase in ridership.

Not with Amtrak's well baked accounting systems. They probably were above break even on a pure above-the-rail basis pre-COVID, but Amtrak burdens them with bloated general overhead costs, plus charges the occasional NEC expense to them by "accident". The RPA put out a well-researched white paper on Amtrak's accounting (mal)practices last year.

 

[TheCrescent]

Not with Amtrak's well baked accounting systems. They probably were above break even on a pure above-the-rail basis pre-COVID, but Amtrak burdens them with bloated general overhead costs, plus charges the occasional NEC expense to them by "accident". The RPA put out a well-researched white paper on Amtrak's accounting (mal)practices last year.

Sure, you are correct: Amtrak accounting is Byzantine nonsense.

But whatever Amtrak’s accounting, marketing could significantly increase ridership.

One station that I regularly ride to is Greenville, SC. In the last two years, I have always been the only (!) sleeping car passenger getting off or on.

Greenville used to be far smaller, and even after its local interstate highway and airport were built, despite being far smaller, it had multiple night trains and even a set-out sleeper.

If the Southern Railway could generate that volume of business even with those limitations, surely Amtrak could get more than one (!) sleeping car passenger per train there.

 

[zephyr17]

Sure, you are correct: Amtrak accounting is Byzantine nonsense.

But whatever Amtrak’s accounting, marketing could significantly increase ridership.

One station that I regularly ride to is Greenville, SC. In the last two years, I have always been the only (!) sleeping car passenger getting off or on.

Greenville used to be far smaller, and even after its local interstate highway and airport were built, despite being far smaller, it had multiple night trains and even a set-out sleeper.

If the Southern Railway could generate that volume of business even with those limitations, surely Amtrak could get more than one (!) sleeping car passenger per train there.

Agree that they could do much more to generate ridership (and stop driving off first time riders whose experience results in "never again"). I guess my point is that there is huge gulf between what could be done and what current Amtrak management is willing to do. Right now, the game appears to be frankly rigged against the long distance services, from the accounting system, to OBS quality and consistency, to equipment management. The cooked books give Amtrak the rationale for not providing proper support for long distance services and thus I consider it a central and vital issue.

Until we get a management that is willing and able to do basic blocking and tackling in support of long distances, it is all "If wishes were horses, we'd all get to ride."

 

[TheCrescent]

Agree that they could do much more to generate ridership (and stop driving off first time riders whose experience results in "never again"). I guess my point is that there is huge gulf between what could be done and what current Amtrak management is willing to do. Right now, the game appears to be frankly rigged against the long distance services, from the accounting system, to OBS quality and consistency, to equipment management. The cooked books gives Amtrak the rationale for not providing proper support for long distance services and thus I consider it a central and vital issue.

Until we get a management that is willing and able to do basic blocking and tackling in support of long distances, it is all "If wishes were horses, we'd all get to ride."

Great points.

This is why I think that the US needs to copy the EU and bring in additional subsidized passenger train operators. The FAST Act pilot program that resulted in no LD routes being operated by someone other than Amtrak wasn’t enough.

Public policy should aim to give the US a long-distance system that is used by the greatest number of travelers for the subsidy that government is willing to give.

Amtrak isn’t achieving that, so it’s time to follow the rest of the industrialized world and try some competition.

 

[zephyr17]

I don't disagree, although I do have some concerns about ensuring such a program being structured to have sufficient support and incentives for long distance services as well as corridors. But of course Amtrak itself has that precise issue with its Connect US proposals.

I guess I could use Iowa Pacific as a counter argument, but their "Pullman" service on the CONO and their operation of the Hoosier State (which was a wonderful passenger experience) were sabotaged by Amtrak at every opportunity. They never had a fair shot.

In a lot of ways, I wish that the alternative proposal to NRPC would have been adopted back in 1970. That would have been that selected routes would continue to be operated by the railroads with Federal subsidies directly to the railroads to offset losses. That actually had quite a bit of political traction but ultimately lost out to the NRPC proposal.

 

[dlagrua]

Amtraks accounting could be described as voodoo economics. All routes whether they use station services, red caps. station employees and station real estate costs are charged to the route. Whether the route uses them or not. its is charged against its operating cost. Moynihan, station, Washington Union station and even Boston stations divide and amortize their operating costs ( employees, real estate, maintenance costs) to all LD routes

 

[jasminvirgelzaa72]

We have all lamented the lack of Amtrak marketing outside the NEC. And, honestly, it’s hard to see much merit on marketing a service for the LD network that is so inconsistent, and arguable deteriorating, that it might be a waste of money until service levels improve.

Nevertheless, I was surprised to receive this email:
View attachment 29248
This appeared to be quite professional and it was interesting that the questions were directed to determining how Amtrak stacks up against other modes of transportation including auto, ride share, rental, RV, and plane for different lengths of trips: 75+miles, 75-500, more than 500. Aside from obvious questions about comfort and convenience it also touched on safety and sustainability.
Assessing attitudes towards other modes of transport, including issues of comfort, convenience, safety and environmental friendliness, is a reasonable approach. This will provide a better understanding of how Amtrak can compete and attract customers in different traveler segments. In general, this is a difficult profession, I even found marketing assignment help at the university, I used https://essays.edubirdie.com/marketing-assignment-help for this. This area needs to be taken seriously. Because you won’t get your money back if nothing works out.
So, let’s hope Amtrak marketing is waking up. They have a long way to go!

It is important that a company focuses on improving service and stability before investing in marketing.

 

[west point]

Amtrak's attitude IMO and as my own is that LD services are so full that marketing is not needed for the LD trains at this time. Where it is needed is NEC, CHI regional trains, SO CAL and NO CAL unless marketing is already handled by those contracting agencies. Cascades services are marketing by whom?

 

[Willbridge]

It is important that a company focuses on improving service and stability before investing in marketing.

Somewhat true, but market research (part of the marketing cycle) can go ahead to find out who is sticking with the afflicted carrier and why. Also, in big systems there are usually pockets of good service. Once these are identified, one may find out why and whether it can be applied to other parts of the system.

And when the service and stability is threatened by external factors, the carrier can tell customers what they are doing about it. It won't silence every cynic, but most people will appreciate being fully informed.

 

[TheVig]

If Amtrak decides they want to do some LD TV ads, I'm sure we could all contribute some story line material.

"Book a $1800 roomette and we'll let wash your own windows in Denver"***
*** Must provide your own squeegee

"Our Amfleets are polished to a mirror shine when the POTUS needs one for a backdrop"

 

[user 29398]

Because Amtrak can mostly sell out short long-distance trains, with no marketing whatsoever, and these days those trains lose money.

With a modest increase in ridership, long-distance trains could break even. It shouldn’t be that hard to have a modest increase in ridership.

Given how many people take Amtrak when its services are largely unknown, imagine what ridership could be if its services were well-known.

Marketing should be able to be a cost-effective way to move Amtrak to (some range of) self-sufficiency.

This assumes Amtrak has enough functioning cars available to lengthen those trains. I don't think they do, nor do they have plans to in this decade.

 

[John Bredin]

When did Congress remove the profitability requirement from Amtrak's enabling legislation? During or after Covid as I recall. When did Congress finally come up with a real budget for Amtrak? About the same time.

*Amtrak came up with the Corridor Development program, nobody forced that idea on Amtrak from the outside.

*Amtrak said little about new equipment other than the new Acelas, as I recall ... until December 2022 when it somewhat suddenly announced the Airos with great fanfare. The initial order has already been expanded, and at least one car has already been built.

*Amtrak has announced its intent to get mothballed long-distance cars back on the rails in 2024.

*Amtrak is proceeding apace with the process of acquiring new long-distance equipment. Even before the present RFP, its proposals a few months back about how it could comply alternatively with the ADA (multiple connected accessible cars without every car needing to be accessible) showed they were putting money, personnel, and thought into what replacement long-distance equipment would look like, including at least considering new bilevel equipment.

I know Amtrak has done some stupid stuff in the past. But I don't think it's entirely coincidental that it made its most skinflint and shortsighted decisions when it was under legal requirements to strive for profitability generally and particularly in food service. I also know lots of people second-guess how they handled worker retention during the worst of COVID, when it wasn't at all clear that passenger travel would recover as it has. But the sheer pessimism -- Amtrak wants rid of the LD trains altogether, Amtrak has no intention of buying new LD equipment, etc. -- is wearying. (I've said that before, I think. ).

Amtrak can't buy fleets of new equipment and hire a full workforce to run, clean, maintain, and market it at the drop of a hat like Thanos snapping. Even this long after the worst of Covid, worker shortages are rife. I don't think the airlines or the supermarket near me are trying to drive away business by not staffing every position like it's 2019. We could give Amtrak the same benefit of the doubt.

I'm not saying just trust Amtrak leadership. Amtrak should be regularly reporting its hiring numbers, its progress in un-mothballing equipment, and the progress of ordering new LD equipment. RPA and others should be watching and making it clear to Amtrak that they're watching. (Judging from what I read on the RPA website, RPA seems cautiously optimistic and is working on a "trust but verify" basis.) If Amtrak low-balls the LD order(s), then will be the time to scream and shout.

As an aside, I firmly believe that if the plan to keep passenger trains running in 1971 had been to subsidize the freight railroads to keep operating passenger services, we would've lost passenger rail around the time of deregulation or maybe a little later into the '80s. Unless Congress was significantly more free-spending with the subsidies than it was with Amtrak funding in reality, the subsidies would have been perceived as a pittance compared to the negative impact on freight traffic, and freight-railroad lobbyists would have pitched ending the subsidized service as lifting another regulatory burden. The freights show every day that they've forgotten that Amtrak priority was not a regulatory burden imposed on them but part of a grand bargain where they got relieved of the ICC requirement to operating passenger trains. I think they'd have developed a similar amnesia after a few years in the alternate reality of subsidized private operation.

Oh, and turning to the marketing thing I see plenty of online ads for Amtrak. Now I'm obviously getting more than the average internet user because of my personal interests, but it does show Amtrak is advertising. And at least some of the ads I've seen pitch the views and comfort of LD travel, so it's clearly not trying to discourage LD ridership.