Amtrak ONLY Rail Transit to Not Allow Pets!

[George Harris]

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Quote:

"When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

And this provision is the major problem with the law. It encourages abuse. It would seem very reasonable to require documentation. After all, and honest answer to "What work or task has then dog been trained to perform?" has the nature of the disability packaged with it. (Does the law really say "dog"? Could it not be some other animal? )

I really can't imagine why the genius that thought this up considered this provision necessary.

We have way too many people getting an undeserved free ride on the system that are getting in the way of those that honestly need the benefits in it.

 

[KWBud]

And this provision is the major problem with the law. It encourages abuse. It would seem very reasonable to require documentation.

There are already "documentation mills" out there that will provide not only official papers, but also special harnesses and capes with logos that declare any dog a service animal. Anyone with a few dollars can purchase them for their pet.

So, unless the federal government wants to register and license service animals, requiring documentation is probably a lost cause.

After all, and honest answer to "What work or task has then dog been trained to perform?" has the nature of the disability packaged with it. (Does the law really say "dog"? Could it not be some other animal? )

The answer could be vague and still legal. "This dog alerts to a mental condition and provides protection during episodes."

Most pet dogs don't meet the behavior standards for working animals and that is one of the methods that can be used to determine whether the animal is indeed a service animal or not.

As for the word "dog" in the law, it is probably there for good reason. There are only two kinds of animals that qualify as service animals, dogs and horses.

One other point I would like to make is for those who make blanket statements about dogs. Dogs shouldn't be in this or that environment, for instance.

Dogs have individual personalities. Additionally they get differing levels of training. Some dogs may love environments that would surprise most people. Virtually all well trained dogs should be able to thrive in any environment where humans congregate. This includes everywhere from a wild New Year's Eve party to harsh physical environments.

--

Bud

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

There are already "documentation mills" out there that will provide not only official papers, but also special harnesses and capes with logos that declare any dog a service animal. Anyone with a few dollars can purchase them for their pet.

So, unless the federal government wants to register and license service animals, requiring documentation is probably a lost cause.

Amen !

It would seem very reasonable to require documentation.

Yes it would to some people whom have a MD that they can see easy . and have the $$ for the visits .

Papers Please .......

so I need to tell every person whom questions me that I have aspergers and I cant write or drive or do math in my Head I have nuropathy and cant feel my feet some days .. ..

unless you are gonna follow HIPPA , the person asking can kiss my cabbose

 

[TheChief]

I worked for Amtrak in on-board services in the 70's when pets were (for a short time) allowed in the passenger cars, and they were a complete disaster.

A couple of examples: 1) Woman in the sleepers puts a little dog down on the platform in Las Vegas, NM, and it immediately takes off, never to be seen again. Local police and animal control are called, delaying the train. The woman is understandably distraught. 2) Cat in the downstairs baggage area in a crate (in a former Santa Fe hi-level coach) howls and cries all night, keeping the passengers awake. The next morning, the owner tries to comfort the cat by putting articles of clothing in the crate. Next thing I find is the owner trying to dry out feces-covered clothes in the downstairs hallway by hanging them on the baggage shelves. Cat continues to howl and cry. 3) Working the Empire Builder in a sleeper, I had a guy get on (I think) at Belton with two dogs as big as he was, going to Chicago. Riding in a rommette, the dogs were miserable and made noise and the owner, cramped in the room, let the dogs roam the aisles and he ended up cleaning up after them. They didn't know where they were or what the rules were. I guess it was just too long between stops, and they were uncomfortable finding a place to do their thing next to the platform. . .

I have more, but from my experience, pets have no place in the coaches or sleepers.

Good for Amtrak!

 

[haolerider]

I worked for Amtrak in on-board services in the 70's when pets were (for a short time) allowed in the passenger cars, and they were a complete disaster.
A couple of examples: 1) Woman in the sleepers puts a little dog down on the platform in Las Vegas, NM, and it immediately takes off, never to be seen again. Local police and animal control are called, delaying the train. The woman is understandably distraught. 2) Cat in the downstairs baggage area in a crate (in a former Santa Fe hi-level coach) howls and cries all night, keeping the passengers awake. The next morning, the owner tries to comfort the cat by putting articles of clothing in the crate. Next thing I find is the owner trying to dry out feces-covered clothes in the downstairs hallway by hanging them on the baggage shelves. Cat continues to howl and cry. 3) Working the Empire Builder in a sleeper, I had a guy get on (I think) at Belton with two dogs as big as he was, going to Chicago. Riding in a rommette, the dogs were miserable and made noise and the owner, cramped in the room, let the dogs roam the aisles and he ended up cleaning up after them. They didn't know where they were or what the rules were. I guess it was just too long between stops, and they were uncomfortable finding a place to do their thing next to the platform. . .

I have more, but from my experience, pets have no place in the coaches or sleepers.

Good for Amtrak!

Thanks Chief! I really think the above comments make me a believer that pets do not have any business on trains. This topic has been exhausted and in my opinion it should be closed.......but, of course that is just my opinion!

 

[George Harris]

Dogs have individual personalities. Additionally they get differing levels of training.

Very, very true. Could also be said that they will tolerate different levels of training. We have had several dogs that have lived long lives with us, and each had a very definite personality. A couple of them could be very devious in their scheming to (successfully) outsmart us. One had a very strong protective instinct along with an innate people sense to the point that if she decided that there was someone she did not like that was all we needed to know about the person. This was not anything she was trained to do, it was just in her.

 

[me_little_me]

Somebody should have thrown that thing off the train - then nicely dropped off the cat.

I worked for Amtrak in on-board services in the 70's when pets were (for a short time) allowed in the passenger cars, and they were a complete disaster.
2) Cat in the downstairs baggage area in a crate (in a former Santa Fe hi-level coach) howls and cries all night, keeping the passengers awake. The next morning, the owner tries to comfort the cat by putting articles of clothing in the crate. Next thing I find is the owner trying to dry out feces-covered clothes in the downstairs hallway by hanging them on the baggage shelves. Cat continues to howl and cry.

 

[SarahZ]

I cannot imagine subjecting my cats to a train ride longer than a few hours. We're talking about moving to SF next summer, and I'm already worrying myself ragged trying to decide if we should take them on the three-day drive or fly them out there (in the cabin with us, not in cargo). Even the flight option isn't easy: going through security, waiting for the flight, flight to ORD, then waiting for the connection, then a flight to SF and a drive to our new home.

Ugh. I already feel bad for them. They don't mind the car, so I'm leaning in that direction, but it's just so LONG.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Sorcha, I have a friend who drove from NM to DE with, I believe, 7 cats. She sedated them to make it easier on her.

 

[AlanB]

Ugh. I already feel bad for them. They don't mind the car, so I'm leaning in that direction, but it's just so LONG.

Then buy or rent a shorter car for the trip. :lol:

 

[SarahZ]

Ugh. I already feel bad for them. They don't mind the car, so I'm leaning in that direction, but it's just so LONG.

Then buy or rent a shorter car for the trip. :lol:

Oh hush.

Betty - I don't want to sedate them since they're so mellow in the car. They don't even meow or struggle when we go to the vet. They are the chillest kitties EVER.

I was thinking about putting my back seats down, which opens up the trunk, so they have lots of open space with a disposable cat litter pan and spill-proof water and food dishes. I'm going to put some netting up along the back of the front seats so they can't get onto my lap or down near my feet while I'm driving. When we stop at rest areas, we'll take turns going in so we don't have to leave them in a hot car. My other option was to leave it running (it has A/C), lock it, and use the spare key in my purse to get back in, but I don't want to leave the car running at a rest area. Someone might get weird about that, and it might be illegal.

 

[AlanB]

I was thinking about putting my back seats down, which opens up the trunk, so they have lots of open space with a disposable cat litter pan and spill-proof water and food dishes. I'm going to put some netting up along the back of the front seats so they can't get onto my lap or down near my feet while I'm driving. When we stop at rest areas, we'll take turns going in so we don't have to leave them in a hot car. My other option was to leave it running (it has A/C), lock it, and use the spare key in my purse to get back in, but I don't want to leave the car running at a rest area. Someone might get weird about that, and it might be illegal.

Yeah, I wouldn't leave the car running with no one save the cats inside. Strange things can happen in rest areas, better to trade off duties and kill a few more minutes of travel time than to risk things.

Years ago, down in Florida, they had big problems with rental cars being hijacked in rest areas. So much so, that all indications of it being a rental car were ordered removed from such cars.

 

[sunchaser]

Ugh. I already feel bad for them. They don't mind the car, so I'm leaning in that direction, but it's just so LONG.

Then buy or rent a shorter car for the trip. :lol:

Oh hush.

Betty - I don't want to sedate them since they're so mellow in the car. They don't even meow or struggle when we go to the vet. They are the chillest kitties EVER.

I was thinking about putting my back seats down, which opens up the trunk, so they have lots of open space with a disposable cat litter pan and spill-proof water and food dishes. I'm going to put some netting up along the back of the front seats so they can't get onto my lap or down near my feet while I'm driving. When we stop at rest areas, we'll take turns going in so we don't have to leave them in a hot car. My other option was to leave it running (it has A/C), lock it, and use the spare key in my purse to get back in, but I don't want to leave the car running at a rest area. Someone might get weird about that, and it might be illegal.

Sorcha, what about staying in 'pet friendly' hotels along the way? That should be less stressful for you and them. You are right that some areas are getting weird about idling cars.

 

[SarahZ]

Yes, we plan to stay in pet-friendly hotels. I have a list of chains, and we'll plan our schedule to allow for staying in one of those along the way.

The current idea is to have both of us driving our vehicles. Brent has a truck, so we can put a bunch of our stuff in that, and then I'll have the Catmobile. We'll follow each other all the way there, so when we stop for gas or a rest stop, we can take turns kittysitting while the other goes inside.

Once we're at the motel, we'll let the kitties relax in the room. Brent hates the idea of stopping for two nights (he prefers to drive up to 20 hours in one day), but I said there is no way I'm going to drive while that tired and there is no way I can drive Infinity-80 for that long of a stretch without going bonkers. I'm going to bring audio books, but I am the most impatient person ever and HATE driving for more than an hour or so. That's why I like trains! ^_^

 

[AlanB]

Sorcha,

I'm a driver, I don't mind driving long distances. Heck, I've been known to ski for 8 hours in Vermont and then get in the car and drive home for 6 hours. But still, even I wouldn't drive 20 hours straight. I understand that you've already got misgivings about doing so, but I highly recommend that you don't even think about trying it. Not only is your & your boyfriend's safety being put at risk IMHO, but I think that 20 hours in the car would also put your cats under great stress. Without regard to how well they behave in a car or not, it is still stressful to cats to not be at home in a familiar environment.

And now you're uprooting everything they know, and on top of that 20 hours in a car simply adds still more stress. I think that a more sedate trip would be best for all. Just my 2 cents.

 

[KWBud]

I suppose that if I worked OBS, I could cherry pick three incidents about any sub-group of travelers and make them look bad.

I can't speak for any animals other than dogs since I have limited experience, but here are my thoughts about the incidents you mention.

1) The train leaves on schedule. If you bring a dog it must be under control at all times.

2) I am curious about what OBS would do about a child carrying in the same way? In any event, I doubt that it would be difficult to claim that the animal is out of control, exclude the animal en route and complete the “Passenger Incident Report.” Service animals, working dogs (and dogs that seek special treatment) should be better behaved than 90% of the people in the same situation. By the way, this is not an especially lofty goal

3) Geez . . . Even service animals and working dogs need to be housebroken and under complete control before they ever begin training. A dog that can't do that hasn't even started the process of socialization and shouldn't be allowed any kind of special privileges.

--

Bud

I worked for Amtrak in on-board services in the 70's when pets were (for a short time) allowed in the passenger cars, and they were a complete disaster.
A couple of examples: 1) Woman in the sleepers puts a little dog down on the platform in Las Vegas, NM, and it immediately takes off, never to be seen again. Local police and animal control are called, delaying the train. The woman is understandably distraught. 2) Cat in the downstairs baggage area in a crate (in a former Santa Fe hi-level coach) howls and cries all night, keeping the passengers awake. The next morning, the owner tries to comfort the cat by putting articles of clothing in the crate. Next thing I find is the owner trying to dry out feces-covered clothes in the downstairs hallway by hanging them on the baggage shelves. Cat continues to howl and cry. 3) Working the Empire Builder in a sleeper, I had a guy get on (I think) at Belton with two dogs as big as he was, going to Chicago. Riding in a rommette, the dogs were miserable and made noise and the owner, cramped in the room, let the dogs roam the aisles and he ended up cleaning up after them. They didn't know where they were or what the rules were. I guess it was just too long between stops, and they were uncomfortable finding a place to do their thing next to the platform. . .

I have more, but from my experience, pets have no place in the coaches or sleepers.

Good for Amtrak!

 

[SarahZ]

Sorcha,
I'm a driver, I don't mind driving long distances. Heck, I've been known to ski for 8 hours in Vermont and then get in the car and drive home for 6 hours. But still, even I wouldn't drive 20 hours straight. I understand that you've already got misgivings about doing so, but I highly recommend that you don't even think about trying it. Not only is your & your boyfriend's safety being put at risk IMHO, but I think that 20 hours in the car would also put your cats under great stress. Without regard to how well they behave in a car or not, it is still stressful to cats to not be at home in a familiar environment.

And now you're uprooting everything they know, and on top of that 20 hours in a car simply adds still more stress. I think that a more sedate trip would be best for all. Just my 2 cents.

Oh, maybe I wasn't clear up there. We are most certainly NOT driving 20 hours straight. I'm the one pushing to stop after 10-12 hours, which turns it into a three-day trip. We need time to relax, take a shower, pet the kitties, sleep, and pack them up in the morning. Poor kitties. I really wish we could do it in one shot instead of putting them in the car that whole time. Every time I think about it, I lean back toward flying. At least that would all be over and done with in several hours. I'm just worried about their ears. How do you make a cat yawn?

 

[Ryan]

My sisters two cats are regular travelers as she has moved around the world in the Navy. One of them has flown from Jacksonville to Hawaii, Hawaii to Baltimore and then back to Hawaii.

She got the other one in Bahrain, flew it from there to DC and then from DC to Hawaii.

Flying them halfway across the country is no big deal. . I think that's that I would do...

 

[SarahZ]

My sisters two cats are regular travelers as she has moved around the world in the Navy. One of them has flown from Jacksonville to Hawaii, Hawaii to Baltimore and then back to Hawaii.
She got the other one in Bahrain, flew it from there to DC and then from DC to Hawaii.

Flying them halfway across the country is no big deal. . I think that's that I would do...

Thanks, Ryan. That makes me feel a lot better. They actually really like their carriers. Sherlock hangs out in his. We'll also pick a late-night flight in the middle of the week to try to avoid crowds. Going through security with them is going to be... interesting.

 

[Ryan]

I think that you mentioned that they would be in the cabin with you, each of those flights the pets have flown unaccmpanied in the hold without any issues. They get dropped off at the baggage office, so security isn't a consideration.

For example, when I just shipped them back out to my sister in HI (her and her husband just moved back out there), I just dropped them off at BWI. They got routed through ORD and then she picked them up at the airport out there after the flight landed.

If you've got family or a friend that is willing to help out, you guys can head out there by whatever means you want, then once you get a place picked out and settled into have the animals sent out (I ended up with my sister's cats for about 4.5 months before they could find a place to move into, but it may be as short as a week or even a few days if you already have a place picked out).

Just another way of doing it to consider.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

From what I've seen, from inside the plane, the animals are the last items loaded into the cargo hold and therefore, I assume, are the first items off.

I don't think they load them until they're ready to close the door.

 

[MiRider]

My sisters two cats are regular travelers as she has moved around the world in the Navy. One of them has flown from Jacksonville to Hawaii, Hawaii to Baltimore and then back to Hawaii.

She got the other one in Bahrain, flew it from there to DC and then from DC to Hawaii.

Flying them halfway across the country is no big deal. . I think that's that I would do...

Thanks, Ryan. That makes me feel a lot better. They actually really like their carriers. Sherlock hangs out in his. We'll also pick a late-night flight in the middle of the week to try to avoid crowds. Going through security with them is going to be... interesting.

Please be careful with your cats,.

If you do put the cats in the baggage hold, make sure that their carriers cannot be opened or fall apart.

I followed this story for 2 months, on FB, from the beginning to its almost happy but very sad ending.

Pets escape at airports more often than we'd like know.

Jack the Cat, Lost and Then Found at J.F.K., Dies

 

[amamba]

There is absolutely NO way I would ever transport a pet as baggage in the hold - unless it was an absolute last resort. I wouldn't do it for vacation. They are much safer if you can travel with them in the cabin and underneath your seat.

Every year there are animals that die in the baggage area, they get loose and get lost, etc. Just as others have pointed out the stress of traveling on a train on an animal, I would not put my beloved pet through the stress of traveling as baggage unless it was a last resort.

 

[SarahZ]

No. Absolutely not. The kitties do not and will not leave our sight. They'll be in the cabin with us. I won't fly with an airline that doesn't allow that.

Additionally, we'll be moving in the summer, from the Midwest to California, so it'll probably be waaaayyy too hot. I doubt any pets would be allowed in cargo on most airlines, since they tend to deny them if the forecast reaches 85 degrees. That's pretty easy to do when you have a day that's 80 degrees with 90% humidity.

I've found a few carriers who allow pets in the cabin for a fee. I just have to make sure Sherlock can stand up straight and turn around in an airline carrier, which is a requirement. He's a big kitty. I'm trying to get him to sit straight up while I measure him, but he won't stand still. He wants to play with the measuring tape.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Maybe consider a pet transport company? Just a thought.