Amtrak payments to host railroads

[frequentflyer]

I would love to know what percentage Amtrak pays to BNSF compared to JBHUNT or UPS for a Z train. That will determine how well a train is handled across the line. If the DOJ gave Amtrak priority status some teeth, then LDs would operate more on time. If Amtrak can get a consist ready to leave on time and 30 year old locomotives to work, then LD trains would be more on time.

In the past Amtrak payed more to the railroads, especially in bonuses. In the 90s BNSF stated Amtrak was one of its most profitable customers if ran ontime. You get what you pay for.

 

[jis]

Here is some necessary reading to get acquainted with the background to think about this question:

Amtrak and Freight Railroads, The Public Bargain

Specifically it should be quite clear that due to the nature of the transactions UPS or JB Hunt pay much more for their trains than Amtrak does for theirs. But the freight railroads have an obligation to honor the quid pro quo releiving them of their common carrier obligations for passengers, that they got in the act that created Amtrak. Of course they have been trying to make the world believe that they do not have such an obligation by sometimes even lying with a straight face.

 

[Ryan]

In the past Amtrak payed more to the railroads, especially in bonuses.

[citation needed]

The incentive payment provisions in Amtrak’s agreements with the six largest Class I railroads give them the opportunity to earn over $125 million annually for providing good on-time performance. However, they earned only 15% of these incentive payments in 2018

This suggests you have cause and effect reversed.

 

[GDRRiley]

Pacific surfliner numbers. UP gets paid for good OTP, 35K a day for 8 trains 4 of which go all the way to San Luis Obispo

https://lossan.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=11303528&GUID=44E2F12D-8842-4768-91F1-EE655BE20DC0

 

[Trogdor]

Pacific surfliner numbers. UP gets paid for good OTP, 35K a day for 8 trains 4 of which go all the way to San Luis Obispo

I wish I could remember where I found the data so I could link to it, but I remember doing some calculations years ago. The ~$5,000/train figure is something I remember for a corridor passenger train. Freight trains…north of $200K/train.

Granted, not apples-to-apples (i.e., freights have to crew the freight train, have to maintain yard infrastructure, and also have to pay for a good portion of their movements being empty), but still…on a purely financial basis, the passenger train has no hope of competing with a freight.

 

[GDRRiley]

I wish I could remember where I found the data so I could link to it, but I remember doing some calculations years ago. The ~$5,000/train figure is something I remember for a corridor passenger train. Freight trains…north of $200K/train.

Granted, not apples-to-apples (i.e., freights have to crew the freight train, have to maintain yard infrastructure, and also have to pay for a good portion of their movements being empty), but still…on a purely financial basis, the passenger train has no hope of competing with a freight.

this is a bonus on top of what the state pays for track rights. One of the last LOSSAN technical meetings was talking about how much they paid/were paying for that as UP was being open about track upkeep costs

 

[frequentflyer]

Here is some necessary reading to get acquainted with the background to think about this question:

Amtrak and Freight Railroads, The Public Bargain

Specifically it should be quite clear that due to the nature of the transactions UPS or JB Hunt pay much more for their trains than Amtrak does for theirs. But the freight railroads have an obligation to honor the quid pro quo releiving them of their common carrier obligations for passengers, that they got in the act that created Amtrak. Of course they have been trying to make the world believe that they do not have such an obligation by sometimes even lying with a straight face.

Unless the 'agreement" have teeth its worthless. And so far Congress and the DOJ has not instilled the fear into the freight railroads of operating Amtrak correctly. The only way to get the Freight Railroads attention is with money.

 

[ehbowen]

Unless the 'agreement" have teeth its worthless. And so far Congress and the DOJ has not instilled the fear into the freight railroads of operating Amtrak correctly. The only way to get the Freight Railroads attention is with money.

Or prison time. When the only penalty for (corporate or personal) misbehavior is a fine, the very clear message is that those with money are above the law.

 

[GDRRiley]

LOSSAN TAC from a few months ago, UP cost per mile per day for class 4 with CTC is ~400$ ~150k per mile per year.