Amtrak Test Trains

[Amfleet]

Does anyone know what happened to Amtrak's early '90's test trains? I'm talking about the ICE, X2000, and Flexliner. Thanks.

 

[battalion51]

I'm pretty sure the ICE was sent back to Germany for use over there, but I could be wrong.

 

[tubaallen]

Good question. I actually got to ride on the X2000 when it was in Chicago. And my family and I were interviewed on the nine o'clock news . As far as I know, the X2000 is already used in Sweden, and so I imagine it just went back there, and they continue to use it there.

 

[Steve4031]

The flexiliner is a danish train. However, the one used in Chicago came from Israel if I recall directly. I assume it went back.

 

[Viewliner]

Does anyone know what happened to Amtrak's early '90's test trains? I'm talking about the ICE, X2000, and Flexliner. Thanks.

Its pretty obvious Amtrak doesn't have these anymore, as they'd use them if they had them. It would've been nice to ride the ICE Train with full Service diner and all.

 

[Amfleet]

The ICE was actually worse than the X2000 because it was not designed for old rail and sharp curvers where as the X2000 was. I thought the Amtrak ICE only had the Bistro, not the diner.

 

[Viewliner]

It probably was, it was still a step up from the cafe, it seemed. I liked the look layout of the ICE, but you're right, mechanically the X2000 was better geared for the NEC.

 

[Steve4031]

Those flexiliners would have been an improvement of horizon cars in the midwest. I rode them up to Milwaukee and back. However, I dont think they had food service. That issue would need to be addressed for midwest corridor service with these trains.

Don't for get the talgo trains out in Seattle.

 

[battalion51]

Talgo trainsets (drool). I really wish Amtrak would have bought proven trains for the NEC rather than designing their own.

 

[PRR 60]

In my opinion, instead of sending the X2000 set back to Sweden, Amtrak should have had 19 more sets sent over. The X2000 was the perfect technology for the NEC, and it was “off-the-shelf”. I rode the X2000 Washington to Philadelphia, and train was a real treat. Considering the extraordinary reliability and performance of the demonstration set, is there any doubt that the X2000 would have launched in the NEC years before the Acela and at much, much lower cost. Think of the millions of dollars Amtrak would have saved which could have been directed to other pressing needs.

Now, I know all about the FRA and the safety standards issues, but I feel the decision to build a train from scratch was pure politics, not safety. I suspect that if Amtrak and the Feds wanted to buy off-the-shelf, the NEC operation, with minimal, tightly controlled freight traffic, could have justified the X2000. Remember, it ran for six months in revenue service as a Metroliner. If it was so unsafe, why were any passenger runs permitted?

In reality, re-inventing the wheel is much more fun than buying a wheel already designed, and much more lucrative for engineers (calculator types, not throttle types) and contractors. This Acela design (a text book example of "design by committee") produced an M-1 tank of a train that is so heavy and so over-powered that it sucks-up electric power like a dehydrated teen wolfs down a Slurpee at Seven-11. Its teething pains delayed launch for years. Remember, the X2000 demo ran in 1993. Acela finally launched in late 2000. And, Acela's on-going maintenance issues, ranging from the cracked damper brackets to the sticking toilet doors and everything in between, have made its reliability a joke compared to the 90% plus on-time record commonly posted by the tried and true Metroliner.

Acela is an aesthetically pleasing train for passengers, but a costly operational nightmare for Amtrak. Maybe we could cut a trade with Swedish State Railways. 20 Acela sets for 20 X2000 sets. Of course, that would be like trading a AAA utility infielder for Barry Bonds. Somehow, I don’t see SJ going for it. For better or worse, Amtrak is stuck with Acela, and all they can do is try and deal with it as best they can.

That's my opinion: then again, I may be wrong.

(By the way, a rant is a pretty neat first posting, don’t you think?)

 

[Amfleet]

I think Acela won't last for more than 15 years. The Acela in my mind has the tilting advantage of the X2000, but wheels of "ICE" that have not adapted well to the harsh NEC enviroment.

 

[AlanB]

(By the way, a rant is a pretty neat first posting, don’t you think?)

Yes it is. But nonetheless, welcome aboard. We're glad to have you as a member.

As for the Acela's VS any other alternative, what's done is done. Even Amtrak's new president David Gunn has said that the Acela was a mistake. But for now he will make do with it, as there is no other choice.

From a passenger's perspective, which includes me, I happen to love the Acela. Yes I realize the myriad of problems that seem to be cropping up, but again there is little that can be done about that now.

Especially until and unless Congress and the White House face the reality that it is indeed the business of the Federal Government to support interstate transportation. That includes all forms of interstate transportation, not just highways and airplanes, but also trains.

 

[Viewliner]

I agree with Alan, that was a very good, detailed post, and I'd also like to welcome you to the forums.

I also agree with Amfleet, the Acela's will probably become the next Metroliners (MU's plagued with problems), and won't last 15 years (as sadly the case of the Viewliners may be according to Miami Joe, wherever he is). So maybe the X2000 would be better for the NEC, except didn't it only have 1 power car and one cab/coach? If so, that should be modified into a second power car to help with acceleration.

As for the ICE, I liked the setup/look of the train from what I've seen, with the Diner/Bistro and all, but I guess I'm wrong, I'm convinced the X2000 was probably the better of the two.

Can anybody give info on the testing of the ICE, besides it not being well adapted to the NEC?

 

[Eric X2000]

As a new member I have been reading some of the different topics in this form and found this about Amtrak's test trains. Since I know some about these trains (especially X2000) I would like to answer some of the questions. Both the ICE train and X2000 have been returned to Germany and Sweden. X2000 was returned late September/early October 1993 and the ICE by the end of 1993.

The X2000 (power unit #2013 + cars) was put into revenue service in Sweden late 1993 and is still running in daily service. X2000 is a safe train, the difference between X2000 and American trains is that Swedish trains are built with deformation zones (like a car) and not like a tank. Which is safer for the passengers.

X2000 normally has one power unit and a cab car. The cab car can easily be replaced by a second power unit. Amtrak wanted two power units per trainset (7,000 hp per unit) if they were going to buy it.

 

[wkaemena]

The ICE Train - A Renaissance on Rails takes you on a rail trip through time. The InterCityExpress, a high speed passenger train which has attracted numerous European travelers back to the rails, made its U.S. debut in 1993 as part of Amtrak's high speed train trials and demonstrations. Built by Siemens and AEG, the ICE Train begins its tour in Pittsburgh, PA - the very heart of America's railroad industry.
Over the next 30,000 miles and 25 cities, the ICE Train dazzles train enthusiasts and spectators alike. Like its thousands of visitors and passengers, you will marvel at the sleek, contemporary design of the train, both inside and out. The ICE Train's historic visit to the U.S. for a tour of duty in Amtrak's Metroliner Service offers a glimpse of what rail travel soon may be like in the U.S.

A lot of promising words were said 30 years ago, but almost nothing happened - especially if you compare the development of other nations regarding long distance high speed trains.

 

[wkaemena]

The ICE was actually worse than the X2000 because it was not designed for old rail and sharp curvers where as the X2000 was. I thought the Amtrak ICE only had the Bistro, not the diner.

The ICE1 has only a combined car of a bistro and a diner. Still today 2023
here how it looked 1991 until 2006 Virtual Tour 360º ICE1 im Originalzustand von 1991-2006
https://www.kaemena360.com/360/ICE1Tour/?startscene=5&startactions=lookat(180.52,0.56,119.92,0,0);and from 2006 onwards DB IntercityExpress 1 REDESIGN 2006
https://www.kaemena360.com/360/ICE1-RD-Tour/?startscene=3&startactions=lookat(369.15,7.59,120,0,0);