Amtrak Train 78 (Fridays only NPN-RVR)

[ParanoidAndroid]

Is there a reason that Amtrak doesn't make Train 78 available for booking? Perhaps no cafe if it's unprofitable to operate?

 

[Anderson]

IIRC the train still runs. Not having it on the timetable means they can send it out whenever they get into NPN (I suspect it only had a handful of riders given both the short run and the timing) rather than having to wait for the departure time. Also, at one point 78 at least theoretically added a connection to 97 (remember, once upon a time 97 left NYP around 1900 and so didn't get into Richmond until after midnight) but that's not there anymore. Finally, not timetabling it means that they can close the stations at NPN, WBG, and RVM earlier.

 

[Acela150]

Nowadays train 78 is a deadhead equipment move to Richmond. Most likely not enough seats sold on the train. Which basically meant that they lost a decent amount of money on the train.

 

[Palmetto]

If the conductors deadhead with the equipment, it's better to put bodies--however few--in seats than it is to put zero bodies in them. IOW, nothing to lose and everything to gain, even if it's not a lot. Another instance of turning away revenue, even if it's a small amount.

 

[Anderson]

If the conductors deadhead with the equipment, it's better to put bodies--however few--in seats than it is to put zero bodies in them. IOW, nothing to lose and everything to gain, even if it's not a lot. Another instance of turning away revenue, even if it's a small amount.

Not if you also have to staff the stations in some form to accommodate the move. Also, I'm not sure what the rules are, but the cafe attendant might be "off the clock" on a deadhead move (or otherwise rotated out). So it's quite possible that there's a net cost of a few hundred dollars (plus whatever overhead that would be carrying) that made it look bad on the books if you were only selling a few tickets per train. Of course, it's also possible that it was axed for passenger service in part because it was showing all of the "regular" costs and nobody in accounting really realized that they'd just have to book those costs to overhead...

 

[PaulM]

If the conductors deadhead with the equipment, it's better to put bodies--however few--in seats than it is to put zero bodies in them. IOW, nothing to lose and everything to gain, even if it's not a lot. Another instance of turning away revenue, even if it's a small amount.

Not if you also have to staff the stations in some form to accommodate the move

You wouldn't be spoiled, would you? Out here in flyover country, very few stations are staffed, including the departure stations for several trains.

Also, I'm not sure what the rules are, but the cafe attendant might be "off the clock" on a deadhead move (or otherwise rotated out).

I bet NYP-ALB and CHI-MKE) passengers are glad this isn't a system wide rule.

So it's quite possible that there's a net cost of a few hundred dollars (plus whatever overhead that would be carrying) that made it look bad on the books if you were only selling a few tickets per train. Of course, it's also possible that it was axed for passenger service in part because it was showing all of the "regular" costs and nobody in accounting really realized that they'd just have to book those costs to overhead...

Now you are getting warmer. Or overhead only gets charged if tickets are sold. Thus

Loss when no tickets are sold = OoPE

Loss when tickets are sold = OoPe + Overhead - Revenue

With this kind of accounting, Amtrak shouldn't be running any trains at all

Of course there could be a perfectly sound reason for dragging an empty train when you could sell a few seats,

 

[Thirdrail7]

Of course there could be a perfectly sound reason for dragging an empty train when you could sell a few seats,

There is and although I believe we've covered it in the distant past, we covered 78 earlier this year in the Revisiting Amtrak's Network Growth Strategy, 1999 thread. I'll save you the trouble of rooting through the boards:

Allow me to intervene here and I will commit to this when I have more time.

Neroden, you asked why 67/66 continues to run to NPN. If anyone recalls, I've mentioned that those trains were in extreme danger for various reasons. Howeve, there are two MAJOR reasons why that train still exists.

A major reason is the state of Virginia WANTS that train to exist. Not only that, they want additional service to NPN as well as NFK. There have been minor changes in the schedules over the last few years. More tweeks and a major overhaul in the timetable are being looked at to optimize service to the regional, particularly with the ROA service almost completed.

Now, here is the main reason for 67 remaining as it is, which also ties into train 78 missing from the public timetable. The Peninsula Sub is not multiple tracked, high speed area. CSX has basically made it clear that until certain improvements are made, if you give up the slot...it may not magically reappear when you want it to. If you give up 67's slot, you may not find an adjacent slot. This goes all the way back to LONG Bridge near ALX. if you give up that slot or try to change it, you may not get it back. That's a heck of risk until you have all of your ducks in a row. It is also a heck of a risk since the line is well used. With work currently in progress to alter the Tidewater service, everyone is wary that once the change is made, there may be no going back.



What does have to do with 78? Currently, 95 turns for 78 and deadheads back to RVR. It is still scheduled as train 78in the employee timetable. The reason it is no longer in the public timetable is it had low ridership. However, it was scheduled train. If it didn't run or was heavily delayed for some reason, alternate transportation had to be arranged. As a non revenue train, you can run it as needed. It retains its schedule train 78 number as an operation profile so CSX has to run it. Otherwise, it would be extra service and CSX could refuse to run it or say we'll get to it when we get to it." As long as it is properly positioned and ready to depart, CSX has to run train 78 as a scheduled train according to the operating agreement.

The same goes for 1297. It is a weekly deadhead operating profile that allows the train to operate over the hosts railroad. It has been used to carry passengers in an emergency or during periods of heavy travel, such as New Years eve.

 

[Triley]

Is there a reason that Amtrak doesn't make Train 78 available for booking? Perhaps no cafe if it's unprofitable to operate?

On Fridays 95's LSA steps off at RVR to be in place for Saturday morning.
From what I heard train 78 use to have horrible time keeping too. Don't know the truth behind it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[Seaboard92]

I've never heard of this 1297 train TR7 mentioned. Which train is that? I've heard of 78 before however. My reasoning always was its a small market, and just a simple repositioning move.

 

[keelhauled]

I've never heard of this 1297 train TR7 mentioned. Which train is that? I've heard of 78 before however. My reasoning always was its a small market, and just a simple repositioning move.

Let me Google that for you... Spoilers ahead!

It appears to be a deadhead of 288's trainset back to Albany.

 

[west point]

If any of the following applies then taking passengers not possible.

1. Conductor rides in loco

2. Train does not park or stop at RVR station.

If one and two not apply then

3. Publish departure time as arrival time of inbound

4. note train boards and leaves NPN as soon as inbound train set arrives.

5. List RVM and RVR as flag stops no times listed..

 

[Anderson]

If the conductors deadhead with the equipment, it's better to put bodies--however few--in seats than it is to put zero bodies in them. IOW, nothing to lose and everything to gain, even if it's not a lot. Another instance of turning away revenue, even if it's a small amount.

Not if you also have to staff the stations in some form to accommodate the move

You wouldn't be spoiled, would you? Out here in flyover country, very few stations are staffed, including the departure stations for several trains.

Also, I'm not sure what the rules are, but the cafe attendant might be "off the clock" on a deadhead move (or otherwise rotated out).

I bet NYP-ALB and CHI-MKE) passengers are glad this isn't a system wide rule.

So it's quite possible that there's a net cost of a few hundred dollars (plus whatever overhead that would be carrying) that made it look bad on the books if you were only selling a few tickets per train. Of course, it's also possible that it was axed for passenger service in part because it was showing all of the "regular" costs and nobody in accounting really realized that they'd just have to book those costs to overhead...

Now you are getting warmer. Or overhead only gets charged if tickets are sold. Thus

Loss when no tickets are sold = OoPE

Loss when tickets are sold = OoPe + Overhead - Revenue

With this kind of accounting, Amtrak shouldn't be running any trains at all

Of course there could be a perfectly sound reason for dragging an empty train when you could sell a few seats,

With due respect, NPN and WBG are "staffed stations" and having a station unstaffed for a single arrival/departure would offer all sorts of rooms for headaches to emerge (e.g. pax being unable to get to the Quik-Trak machine inside). In the case of RVM, the issue is that (at least before the renovations) the security person at RVM actually needed to be there to open/close the doors to the platform, so it isn't about pax accommodation...it is/was about being able to access the station.

1297 is one I hadn't heard of, so I'd always just presumed there was some clause in the New York contracts for rights to operate an extra in a slot there.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Sometimes, the revenue from one or two passengers per week isn't worth the extra headache involved in running a train as revenue.

 

[Acela150]

1297 is listed in the Employee TT. Well it was.. When G.O. 602 came out Amtrak decided it was best to put timetables in the form of a Bulletin. Which is actually what Amtrak had done previously. The timetables in the ETT were just there and were always superseded by the Bulletins.