Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion Q4 2023 - 2024

[jis]

It did, but after B&O made it “freight only” east of Baltimore in 1958, they didn’t serve New York (Jersey City). Not sure if B&O domes ever did…

From the following Wikipedia article it would appear that the Strata Domes of the Columbian may have run to Jersey City at least for a while between 1949 and 1958, but it is ambiguous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_(B&O_train)

Incidentally the two original Strata Domes and the additional three Budd built ones for C&O, acquired by B&O all ran on the Florida Special under lease to ACL between Richmond VA and Miami for a while (about a year or so). See http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/BO/ Incidentally this page hints that the domes never ran North of Baltimore.

On the Florida Special service they were restricted to Richmond because apparently they could not clear the First Street Tunnels with the then catenary in place. Since then clearance within those tunnels have been increased enough to fit Superliners and presumably most if not all Domes.

 

[Palmland]

B&O feature cars, domes and observations, always started in Washington. They were used on the National and Capitol Ltd, Columbian, and Shenandoah. Even in ‘59, after NY service ended, they were added in Washington although the train began in Baltimore at Camden station.

One of the highlights of my summer trips on the National Limited (to Cincinnati and St Louis) was backing into Washington. Standing at the rear door of the last car it was fun to watch the flagman signal the engineer as we came to a stop, then coupled to the two sleepers to the southwest (MP and Frisco) and the observation, ex NYC.

I suspect the Washington terminal for these cars allowed a same day turn. Perhaps there is a lesson here for Amtrak, although intermediate switching seems a foreign concept unless it involves the whole train.

 

[lordsigma]

The million dollar question would be if this comes to pass would it only be during the tunnel work and would they revert back to Superliners on the Capitol when it's done, or would they keep the Cap on single level equipment and just eliminate the run through at the end. I guess we'll find out eventually. It would obviously consume more single level equipment without the run through but even without the run through it's probably still a better equipment assignment given the pool of single level equipment vs. Superliners.

 

[west point]

My experience with a B&O dome was that it was not as tall as the western train's domes.

 

[west point]

It would obviously consume more single level equipment without the run through but even without the run through it's probably still a better equipment assignment given the pool of single level equipment vs. Superliners.

"IF" the star's equipment runs thru on the Capitol then it will only take one more train set of single level equipment. That would release the 3 tiny Capitol's equipment of Super Liners.

A thought> If the star and Meteor swapped departure times at MIA then that would give plenty of time for servicing in WAS either as a thru train or as O&D. As well better connections at WAS for passengers WAS and north to BOS and actually Albany as well.

Now southbound do not have good solution if Capitol late which is a problem now.

 

[Palmland]

Incidentally the two original Strata Domes and the additional three Budd built ones for C&O, acquired by B&O all ran on the Florida Special under lease to ACL between Richmond VA and Miami for a while (about a year or so).

Somewhere I have a photo of the dome/sleeper being added in Richmond on a snowy day during my college years in Ashland. The screenshot is from the January 1966 Official Guide, courtesy of Timetable World. Also in this consist are the 7 Dbr-2 Dr cars. These had been modified by Pullman in 1961/62 from 14 roomette - 2DR cars. Business travel was out, leisure travel to Florida was in! Wouldn't it be nice if Amtrak had Pullman's capacity to rebuild cars in house. It seems their capability is limited to maintenance, repairs, and refresh.

 

[railiner]

My experience with a B&O dome was that it was not as tall as the western train's domes.

You are correct…the two B&O domes built by Pullman-Standard for their Columbine train were only 15’ 3” overall. The three Budd “low profile” domes B&O acquired from the C&O (for its “stillborn” Chessie, were 15’ 5.75” overall. Most western domes were between 15’ 6” and 15’ 10” overall…
For comparison, Superliner’s are 16’ 2”.

 

[jis]

My experience with a B&O dome was that it was not as tall as the western train's domes.

They were 4"-8" shorter.

 

[pennyk]

I am on the Star now. My attendant believes the Capitol Limited will be using single level equipment in the fall and that the Star will terminate in WAS. However he does not believe there will be a one seat through ride on the same equipment from Florida to Chicago.

 

[joelkfla]

Somewhere I have a photo of the dome/sleeper being added in Richmond on a snowy day during my college years in Ashland. The screenshot is from the January 1966 Official Guide, courtesy of Timetable World. Also in this consist are the 7 Dbr-2 Dr cars. These had been modified by Pullman in 1961/62 from 14 roomette - 2DR cars. Business travel was out, leisure travel to Florida was in! Wouldn't it be nice if Amtrak had Pullman's capacity to rebuild cars in house. It seems their capability is limited to maintenance, repairs, and refresh.

View attachment 36668

I was curious about the "Recreation Car":
https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:6108vb763

 

[Palmland]

I was curious about the "Recreation Car":
https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:6108vb763

Interesting they had that so long ago. Here is the ad in the ACL timetables for the winter 63/64. 64/65. Note the hostess talking with happy passengers in the recreation car. Can you imagine what the fashion show was like. I suspect the TV's were a short lived feature as that could be really annoying. Although I did not see the recreation car when I rode it in the spring of '68, the sleeper lounge that had been mid train was now an observation sleeper lounge on the rear. On my trip it had been recently removed from the Broadway Limited, probably Mountain View or Tower View. Also in that service was the observation from the Gulf Wind, ex Crescent - maybe Royal Street. I believe that was the last season for the Florida Special.

Even in the 60's, some railroads made a valiant effort to maintain their trains and attract new riders. The schedule has it leaving at 10:45am, about the same time as Amtrak's Silver Star (11:02). Miami arrival is 24 hrs, 40 min later at 11:25. It seems like an ideal schedule leaving NY late enough for local connections and Miami arrival early enough to check into you hotel and be ready for cocktail hour! Our wandering Star of today takes 31 hrs, 33 min, almost 7 hours longer. Sigh

 

[joelkfla]

Even in the 60's, some railroads made a valiant effort to maintain their trains and attract new riders. The schedule has it leaving at 10:45am, about the same time as Amtrak's Silver Star (11:02). Miami arrival is 24 hrs, 40 min later at 11:25. It seems like an ideal schedule leaving NY late enough for local connections and Miami arrival early enough to check into you hotel and be ready for cocktail hour! Our wandering Star of today takes 31 hrs, 33 min, almost 7 hours longer. Sigh

In fairness, it's route was more comparable to the current Meteor, which makes the run in 27h 44m, and most of the 3 hour difference is to service all the Central FL stops.

 

[jiml]

However he does not believe there will be a one seat through ride on the same equipment from Florida to Chicago.

That one statement makes perfect sense for "today's" Amtrak.

 

[jis]

I am on the Star now. My attendant believes the Capitol Limited will be using single level equipment in the fall and that the Star will terminate in WAS. However he does not believe there will be a one seat through ride on the same equipment from Florida to Chicago.

It would be interesting to say the least. Unless they want to find more than one additional consist, they will have to most likley clean and prepare the consist at platform as they transition it from 92 to 29 and 30 to 91.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Seems to be a lot of work for little benefit.