Auto Train Cuts

[Allypet]

RRDude, A worker on the AT described to me exactly what you did. That was in mid March when they first started the cuts. I'm sad to see that after more then a month things have not gotten any better, and will most likely get worse during the busy summer season. I will withhold judgment until my trip in July.

It seems to me that Amtrak is killing themselves by a thousand cuts. It seems that over the past year they did many things to make the passenger experience worse. I feel it started with the policy change on refunds, then it moved to different levels of fares. Then it moved to reductions in on board amenities, downgrading of meals, and a general decline in service and atmosphere. I think they will feel the effects sooner rather then later.

 

[user 1215]

Far easier to just put things back the way that the were. Don't fix what isn't broken.

They just broke it.

 

[Ryan]

Yes, I get that.

And the easiest way to fix it is to put it back, not come up with some other crazy scheme that may or may not work. I said that right there in the part you quoted. Read the first sentence again.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I won't ride the Auto Train (the Silvers are fine for me) but based on rrdudess and others comments sounds like the "New" Diner/Lounge system is bad for the passengers and the crews! And for those paying the really High Buckets it sounds like complaints will roll in by the bushel!

The Suits @ 60 Mass need to ride this Train themselves, then have a meeting and exclude the bean counters and the incompetent so called exec that dreamed up this Cluster Flub! (This isn't about flowers,chocolate,newspapers or cranberry juice, standardized menus etc, its about customer service and employee workload on what used to a System and Train that worked! )

Less is NOT More!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The auto train was always awful. Stop bringing your car to Florida. Better yet, don't go to Florida. There are lots of better places to go then Florida where you don't need a car to begin with.

 

[Allypet]

Sorry GML, if it wasn't for us Yankees Florida would be nothing more than the Everglades. And besides I have to use my Sunpass somewhere.

 

[rrdude]

The auto train was always awful. Stop bringing your car to Florida. Better yet, don't go to Florida. There are lots of better places to go then Florida where you don't need a car to begin with.

Lion, I know from your previous posts, that you aren't a fan of this "elitist" train, but facts are facts. When run correctly, the AT has done significantly better than most other LD trains on a cost-recovery issue. It was at one time, the "premier" choice for Amtrak crews to bid on, to try and get a job on. (3 on, 2 off)

Three Amtrak staffers I talked to mentioned that they are seriously considering "bidding off" their current AT job when the time comes to re-bid.

You may not like the AT, but it's (was) a winner with the public, and I'm not talking about the "train-fan-riding public", just Mr. & Mrs. Average John Doe and kids....

There must really be something F-%^$^ed up at Amtrak management, if they let them ruin this former gem.

 

[FormerOBS]

Food service carts were tried on Auto Train many, many years ago and found to be impractical because of the amount of foot traffic through the cars. This would be even worse now with passenger counts approaching 600 people. The northbound train April 20-21 had about 590 passengers. There have been times recently when it has been almost impossible to move from one end of the lounge to the other due to crowding. Stainless steel flatware is used as much as possible. If the flatware cannot be cleaned and returned to the floor quickly enough, plastic knife/fork/spoon sets are used, rather than make the passenger wait. If the dishwashing machine breaks down, it's all plastic. I'm trying to stick to the facts here, without editorial comment.

 

[user 1215]

That's a fine retort. I appreciate your point of view on the carts. Let's continue though, the consideration that Amtrak wants to keep dumbing down service and costs. The food would be served heated from the galley. Cutlery would be plastic. The tray tables aren't any smaller than aircraft - larger if I were to guess.

Interestingly, I can't remember the consist, but it seemed like there were 14 Superliners and only 26 car carriers one day this past weekend. I don't remember the counts, but it seemed like more than usual passenger accomodations and fewer than usual car carriers...

 

[rrdude]

If they were to "properly" do carts with heated food, I dread to think of walking from the galley (one of the three food service cars) thru all of the coaches, load it onto a cart, and then walk thru the coaches. And what about the lower level of the coaches? Doing a few meals "to go" from the diner is work enuff for the TA-C, I cannot even fathom adding "Meal Service at Your seat", and having to slog the meals from the diners. IMHO, the only way that would ever work, is if a convection oven or holding oven (Alto-Sham or similar) were installed on each coach. Then you'd have a snowball's chance in Hell of making a decent effort.

Just as an aside. When we bought the EnterTRAINment Line dinner-buffet train in the early 90's, ALL of the food service was done from one car, the so-called "kitchen car" (It was a lunch-counter car in it's real life)

At first as each table car (old coaches installed with chairs and tables, we called them "Table-Cars") was called, the passengers would walk to the Kitchen-car, load up their plates, and hike back to their tables, foam plates piled high with fixins'...

Well, as you can imagine, there was a lot of dropped food, and stumbling passengers, trying with both hands to hold their plate, walking on a moving train, pulling open old doors that the automatic opening had long ago failed.

Within a month we outfitted each table-car to have it's own buffet, with the staff carrying the pans and chaffers from the kitchen to the table-cars. And we replaced the flimsy foam plates with real china too.

I simply can't see cart-service working with heated meals, on LD trains, without major retrofits to Superliners and/or AmCans.

Granted the tray-back "tables" are the same size or bigger than airline tray-backs. But what they serve in coach on airlines, rarely is chicken, or steak with sides of veggies, cream sauce, etc... Amtrak would also have to greatly modify the type of meals served if they were to try this, and I hope they don't.....

 

[user 1215]

Oh - you're presuming that the same food would be served. I'm thinking ham sandwiches and chips.



I'm kidding. But I do see your point, and it's valid. One of the design differences between Amtrak and Japanese railcars is that the vestibule design is very poor and not condusive to carts passing through.

But I can't shake the thought of what most Japanese trains do have - trolley service with impressionable staff. That being said, in Japan, all the items on a food cart are for sale, and thus couldn't be stocked for 80 passengers per car. I believe, though, they do have warm and cold storage.

So maybe this ain't a great idea for the Autotrain. But neither is reducing food quality and eliminating a lounge car.

But for revenue purposes, I would like to see trolley service on more LD trains like the Silvers where the Cafe can run out of food and the Diners may never serve coach passengers.

 

[rrdude]

I think we can "agree to agree" that trolley service may have a shot on some LD trains. But it would need to be cold or room-temp only (no cooking) fully disposable (Not very green) and involve ZERO add'l staff, meaning the TA-Coach, would be given an additional task. I'd also posit that at least 4 revenue seats would have to be removed, to make room for trolley storage and food an supply storage...

I mean, "Marty" made it work on the Hiawatha's, 'til Amtrak nixed that, but that was obviously not LD.... And IIRC, it was not a revenue generator, when all costs (labor, food, etc.) were included...

 

[SarahZ]

The auto train was always awful. Stop bringing your car to Florida. Better yet, don't go to Florida. There are lots of better places to go then Florida where you don't need a car to begin with.

So the Snowbirds who live there during the winter should just sell their house? I believe some/many use the AT to get back and forth twice per year without having to drive.

 

[Ryan]

They should hurry up and sell it before it becomes part of the Atlantic Ocean.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just as a reminder Lion some very successful, intellegent AUers that were originally Yankees have moved to Florida and more to come! Not mention our resident Attorney, Yoga Instructor and Native Floridian who lives in Orlando!

Of course the late comic and wit Fed Allen did say that "Florida is a wonderful place if you're an orange, an alligator or a real estate speculator! LOL

 

[FormerOBS]

Venture: Maybe the train was moving too fast to get an accurate count, but the Auto Train runs with 16 Superliners every day at this time of year, and at holidays like Easter and Passover, it runs full. During most of the year, the ratio of passengers to motor vehicles is usually around 2 to 1. At holiday season and in the summer, there are more families travelling, so a party of 6 or more might travel with a minivan on the carriers. In that case, it's possible that the train could carry fewer auto carriers.

 

[neroden]

RRDude, A worker on the AT described to me exactly what you did. That was in mid March when they first started the cuts. I'm sad to see that after more then a month things have not gotten any better, and will most likely get worse during the busy summer season. I will withhold judgment until my trip in July.

It seems to me that Amtrak is killing themselves by a thousand cuts. It seems that over the past year they did many things to make the passenger experience worse. I feel it started with the policy change on refunds, then it moved to different levels of fares. Then it moved to reductions in on board amenities, downgrading of meals, and a general decline in service and atmosphere. I think they will feel the effects sooner rather then later.

I'll tell you precisely when Amtrak will see the effects.

The cuts started in March on the Auto Train. Most people who take the Auto Train ride it roughly once per year, round trip. Accordingly, it will take a full year for all the repeat customers to experience the dreadful degredation of service. Starting roughly next March, the ridership and revenue numbers will be hurt a great deal as all the repeat customers vanish.

You read it here first.

The worst part of this is, *even if Amtrak management wakes up and gets a clue*, and reverses the cuts, the drop in ridership and revenue will persist for several years: minimum of three years, I'd say. Customers are once bitten, twice shy.

Even if Amtrak has the sense to reverse the cuts on, say, May 1st this year (sadly unlikely), then we will see a visible hit to ridership and revenue in March - May of 2015. That's my prediction.

Heh. The good news is, with the drops in ridership and revenue, Amtrak will probably decide sometime in late 2015 that it's running too many coaches, and take a coach off the train. Then with idle lounges and diners sitting around, someone will come up with the bright idea of adding the lounge and diner back...

Management by incompetence. Sigh.

 

[user 1215]

Heh. The good news is, with the drops in ridership and revenue, Amtrak will probably decide sometime in late 2015 that it's running too many coaches, and take a coach off the train. Then with idle lounges and diners sitting around, someone will come up with the bright idea of adding the lounge and diner back...

Management by incompetence. Sigh.

My prediction is that by the time management figures out how bad they broke it, the idle equipment will have been repurposed. Kinda like how the Sunset Limited can't start back up because the equipment that they used on that route no longer exists.

 

[rrdude]

RRDude, A worker on the AT described to me exactly what you did. That was in mid March when they first started the cuts. I'm sad to see that after more then a month things have not gotten any better, and will most likely get worse during the busy summer season. I will withhold judgment until my trip in July.

It seems to me that Amtrak is killing themselves by a thousand cuts. It seems that over the past year they did many things to make the passenger experience worse. I feel it started with the policy change on refunds, then it moved to different levels of fares. Then it moved to reductions in on board amenities, downgrading of meals, and a general decline in service and atmosphere. I think they will feel the effects sooner rather then later.

I'll tell you precisely when Amtrak will see the effects.

The cuts started in March on the Auto Train. Most people who take the Auto Train ride it roughly once per year, round trip. Accordingly, it will take a full year for all the repeat customers to experience the dreadful degredation of service. Starting roughly next March, the ridership and revenue numbers will be hurt a great deal as all the repeat customers vanish.

You read it here first.

The worst part of this is, *even if Amtrak management wakes up and gets a clue*, and reverses the cuts, the drop in ridership and revenue will persist for several years: minimum of three years, I'd say. Customers are once bitten, twice shy.

Even if Amtrak has the sense to reverse the cuts on, say, May 1st this year (sadly unlikely), then we will see a visible hit to ridership and revenue in March - May of 2015. That's my prediction.

Heh. The good news is, with the drops in ridership and revenue, Amtrak will probably decide sometime in late 2015 that it's running too many coaches, and take a coach off the train. Then with idle lounges and diners sitting around, someone will come up with the bright idea of adding the lounge and diner back...

Management by incompetence. Sigh.

You have NO IDEA how close to accurate everything you just wrote actually is...

You know who I really "feel for", other than the poor souls on the AT (crew and pax)? The staffers at Amtrak that fought against this. They will be long gone, or reassigned by the time next year rolls around. And it will be the same idiots who came up with these lame-brain ideas, that host a bunch of "focus group panels" that cost $$$, to then announce, "New Sleeper Lounger Cars" to be added to Auto Train in June of 2015!

"Management by incompetence." Damn, if that's the case, I cudda made my career at Amtrak! And been just fine, maybe even promoted!

 

[greatcats]

Remember the Peter Principle: " The ignorant shall rise to the highest level of their incompetence. " I wrote that on the blackboard in the Crew Dispatchers office at NJ Transit years ago. Somehow the superintendent saw it and for some reason indicated his displeasure with me! I made a career out of doing things like that......... Many years later, after he was long retired and I was working at Grand Canyon, I wrote him a letter in New Jersey and he called me back - it was kind of heartwarming. Personally, I liked the man.......hehe

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I was always under the impression Kevin O'Conner is the poster child for the Peter Principle. Except he's risen well above his level of incompetence.

Sorry GML, if it wasn't for us Yankees Florida would be nothing more than the Everglades. And besides I have to use my Sunpass somewhere.

Which would make it a much nicer place. Florida wildlife is quite interesting. All the people living there in their bland little communities of rickety ticky-tacky condos and equally crummy McMansions with their communities so carefully, so diligently, so painstakingly and lovingly crafted to make life as hard as possible for anybody who is a non driver. I personally think that anybody who is of retirement age who moves down there is proving their own incompetence at making choices about living and life. I said that to my parents' faces when they told me they were thinking of moving down there.

If one is of retirement age, one should be moving to someplace with excellent transit. Not Florida.

The auto train was always awful. Stop bringing your car to Florida. Better yet, don't go to Florida. There are lots of better places to go then Florida where you don't need a car to begin with.

So the Snowbirds who live there during the winter should just sell their house? I believe some/many use the AT to get back and forth twice per year without having to drive.

Precisely.

 

[user 1215]

Retirees should do what they want - not what GML wants.

 

[tonys96]

Retirees should do what they want - not what GML wants.

THIS

 

[Bob Dylan]

Let GML freeze and pay high taxes in the NE while retirees and snowbirds enjoy the warm winter and low taxes in Florida! References upon request!

 

[rrdude]

Just an update, I have received $300 in Travel Credits for Amtrak, for the disappointed and frustrating trip I took with my family, to and from Florida.