Auto Train Cuts

[FormerOBS]

Exactly right. When a car has to go thru its routine maintenance cycle, this is done in Sanford because that's the primary maintenance point for Auto Train. But Lorton is the primary restocking point. If one car is to be cut out, the crew tries to pack up as much stock as possible before arrival into Sanford, but this can be difficult because they are often still serving breakfast at the time of arrival. Cutouts are a pain in the neck, but they're a necessary part of the operation. The new car is set on the second track, as close as possible to the one to be cut out. All available O.B.S. crew members are called to help with the transfer of stock so the new car can be gotten ready for the northbound leg. Cutting out sleepers, transition sleepers, and lounges is handled the same way. Special moves like this aren't necessary for coaches because there's so little stock to be transferred. The transfer can take up to an hour, but is often less if all crew members help, and that is usually the case on the Auto Train. I think the spirit of teamwork is stronger on that train than on other trains. A real problem can develop when more than one car is cut out, or when the decision to cut a car is made late. The time taken to do these things is taken out of the crew's turnaround (layover) time, which means the crew wants to finish as quickly as possible. As far as I know, the Auto Train crew has the shortest layover time of any Amtrak long distance train crew.

 

[Porter20]

I apologize for resurrecting this old thread - but as an occasional Amtrak rider (I have access to limited routes) - I will give you my thoughts. I normally spend time on the forum around my trips; but unfortunately due to my wife's excess FF miles, I couldn't convince her to spend $$ on train tickets for vacation this year. However, when my brother called and asked if I could bring his car from Florida to Delaware this Thanksgiving; I jumped at the idea to return on the AT (especially on his dime).

So when I was looking at booking the ticket, the price seemed a little more than when we booked two years ago. Although to be fair, I think we booked at a time where kids rode for free so that affected it a bit and it was before they added all the cost together and they had two types of cars to choose from so what I was looking at was not really apples to apples. I was actually checking out the menu and surprised to just see one menu listed and it looked quite different - I had remembered a sleeping car menu and a coach menu but couldn't locate them. That's when I logged on to AU to figure what was going on. I have read through all 22 pages and found it very informative.

Not having experienced a trip on the train yet I can't comment on the overcrowding or lack of lounge car. As far as wine and cheese and free wine with dinner, it was a nice perk but I'm comfortable buying my own wine at dinner just as I have done on the Silvers. My big disappointment was the menu - while not trying any of the food - it doesn't look all that great compared to past experiences. And ultimately, the one way trip is more expensive than our round trip flights on one of the busiest travel times of the year.

We were talking about an AT trip next summer; but I'm gonna let this trip be the barometer. I realize you save miles on your car and wear and tear; but if you can drive your family, eat a really nice dinner and stay in an upscale hotel for half the price of the AT - it becomes hard to justify. So yes, I guess you could add me into the casual rider who has bragged how cool the AT has been in the past and now may consider other options going forward.

 

[FormerOBS]

Porter20:

Ride with an open mind. Most of the onboard staff are the same folks who have been with the Auto Train for years. They're not happy with many of these changes, but they are still happy to serve you as best they can.

Tom

 

[Porter20]

Tom - I will. And I'm sure it will be fine. And to me, the people is what really has made Amtrak successful recently. Most handle their job with professionalism, care and concern that you don't see in ither areas of the travel industry. I'm not as high maintenance that my post made me sound. Plus the best part - I get to start the day with lunch at the Willowtree in Sanford.

 

[FormerOBS]

Love the Willow Tree. But I never ate there very often because they serve beer & I didn't want our passengers to see me eating there & jump to the conclusion that I might be drinking before a trip. I usually ate at the Colonial Room. If you go to the Colonial, say hello to Michelle and check the daily specials. If the lamb shanks or the trout almondine are among the specials, you ought to try them.

Tom

 

[Bob Dylan]

Love the Willow Tree. But I never ate there very often because they serve beer & I didn't want our passengers to see me eating there & jump to the conclusion that I might be drinking before a trip. I usually ate at the Colonial Room. If you go to the Colonial, say hello to Michelle and check the daily specials. If the lamb shanks or the trout almondine are among the specials, you ought to try them.

Tom

Sounds delicious Tom! Reminds one of what a Diner used to offer on the LD Trains!!

 

[I always rode the Southern]

The biggest disappointment for me regarding the auto train cuts is the loss of the signature steak to "slow braised beef sirloin steak" which translates to 2 flavorless chunks of pot roast with mashed potatoes instead of baked. We have taken 4 trips since the cuts and the only thing that has kept us from bailing is the effort and attitude of the OBS. I can't say enough good things about the little things they have done to help make it a pleasurable trip in spite of the cuts.

 

[MajorWoody]

I'm late to the thread, having just found this site. We have taken the AT about a dozen times over the last 10 years. We always get either a room or a roomette, never rode coach. We are a bit concerned about the cutbacks, and have a few comments.

1 - The wine & cheese tasting, I seem to recall the woman who ran it several years back told us it was done to promote the Virginia vineyards, and the wine was provided by those vineyards, therefore not really costing anything to Amtrak. Furthermore, it only lasted an hour or so, and I can not imagine, even factoring in labor costs, that is was a real financial drain. Can any of the more learned posters on this board clarify if the wine was in fact provided, or did Amtrak actually pay for it?

2 - In regards to the combined menu, it has seemed that the food quality has dropped over the last 10 years. I seem to recall filet mignon years ago, and being pleasantly surprised at how good the dinner was. The last few trips (prior to these cutbacks) it has seemed to be more generic and of a lesser quality (flat iron steak?). I don't mind paying for wine at dinner, but if I am going to pay, it would be nice if they actually had some decent choices, instead of the Sutters Home rotgut that they sell in the bar car, although I heard last Tuesdays Vintage was spectacular!!!!! Seriously, if they are looking to make money, then sell a decent bottle of wine, I know there are folks who would pay for it.

3 - As to the actual sleeper lounge car, I can somewhat understand why it is being reduced to a combined car. I never really saw people spending money in there, especially considering the number of people on the train. It was nice to have a place to sit and socialize though, and we met some interesting people in there over the years. It was annoying though, to spend money on a cocktail, and find the booths and table occupied by folks who were not spending a dime at the bar, or bringing their own refreshments. I can imagine it will be much worse now having to share it with coach passengers.

4 - As others have posted, the long walks, combined with the advanced age of many AT passengers, seems like a disaster waiting to happen. We always joke that we are the youngsters on the train, even though we are approaching 60. I have said in jest that the average age of AT passengers is around 75 years of age, give or take a few centuries.

5 - One of the reasons we always get a room, or roomette (depending on availability), is it was considered first class, and the meals and amenities were better. Now with these cuts, it seems that other than a little more cabin space, there is not much of a difference, except in price. Having never rode in coach on the AT, I really can't comment on how the journey is. But it has always appeared that the coach passengers often look like zombies upon disembarking, while the sleeper cabin passengers seem somewhat better rested.

 

[Ryan]

Thanks for your perspective.

I would suggest spending a night in coach before saying that it seems there isn't much difference. Private space (albeit small) and a flat surface to sleep on are a HUGE deal and well worth the cost.

 

[jis]

For what it was worth, there were flowers in the Diner the last time I took the Auto Train in late August, well after the latest cuts were in place. I had traveled once previously a few weeks earlier, also after the latest cuts, when there were no flowers.

I think anyone that was paying the huge fare difference just for a free steak, a flower in a vase and a space in a lounge has got to be deluded. I couldn't care less what the food was like as long as I get my private space with a good flat surface to lie down on.

 

[Anderson]

I will say, on the topic of the lounge cars, it would be nice if they could provide some socializing space without having to "blow" a full car on non-revenue space. A car that's a lounge upstairs and has a few sleeper rooms downstairs, or even a half-and-half upstairs, would be a nice compromise if not for the fact that it would (A) cost money to make happen and (B) make a mess of Amtrak's standardized equipment situation.

 

[Palmland]

Why doesn't Amtrak offer a 'premium' dinner for an extra charge. For those who like a good, rather than mediocre, meal I am sure they would pay the extra. Same for a 'premium' wine. Those on vacation do have discretionary money (especially on auto train 1st class) and want to feel like it's a special occasion. On a Disney cruise where meals are included, they charged $65 for a meal in the fine dining 'Remy' restaurant. For our family reunion big event it was well worth it. The extra income might even pay for another dining car server on AT to make it easier to provide better service.

Taking it one step further, would enough people pay an extra fare to bring back a sleeper lounge with a specialty dining area (maybe one of those unused CCC cars)? With the twice the number of sleeper passengers than the CS you would think Amtrak could provide more 1st class dining and lounge space, especially if it was branded as a premium experience - for a price.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent suggestion, hence it doesn't stand a chance of happening in this era of nickel and dime cuts!

 

[jis]

Taking it one step further, would enough people pay an extra fare to bring back a sleeper lounge with a specialty dining area (maybe one of those unused CCC cars)? With the twice the number of sleeper passengers than the CS you would think Amtrak could provide more 1st class dining and lounge space, especially if it was branded as a premium experience - for a price.

Basically it is not shortage of cars that caused the lounge to be removed. It was limitation of HEP and the desire to increase revenue by adding one more Coach. If there really was demand for lounge service wherein the users of the lounge would pay the equivalent of the Coach fare for an entire Coach full of passengers then this theory would work. but I somehow doubt that there is the willingness to pay that much for just getting a lounge seat that may be available for a small portion of the journey for ones use. The Auto Train is completely maxed out on the number of cars that can be handled. The Coast Startlight is far from it. So those two are really not comparable.

 

[Palmland]

In most businesses, if there is more demand (no, of passengers which requiries more cars) than supply (Max car limit) you raise prices, at least in high demand periods. Airlines artificially limit supply (no planes/seats) so they can raise prices. A higher fare requires better levels of service as in first class amenities.

 

[jis]

Not really. If prices are being raised due to just more demand, there is no reason to provide any more service if there already is demand for the current service such as to be able to raise prices and have it stick without losing clientele.

Airlines routinely raise prices and fees without providing any better or more service.

So I guess I am contesting your theory on demand pricing and its relationship to service quality. I think there is much real world evidence to suggest that your theory is not valid in many cases.

 

[Palmland]

Guess we'll never know, JLS, but AT could certainly be a case study in some MBA program.

 

[FormerOBS]

Major Woody:

If you follow this thread all the way beck to the beginning, many of your questions will be answered. Sorry, but I can't cite chapter & verse & time & date for you, but I'm sure it's there. At first, the wine tasting was initiated as a means of showcasing Virginia wines, and the wineries provided the wine to Amtrak at no cost. After a few years, the wineries decided to end their participation, and pulled out of the promotion. Amtrak decided to continue the wine tastings at their own expense. From then on, the wines were no longer exclusively from Virginia, and the selection was unpredictable. At this point, each wine tasting was costing Amtrak money, and it was eating into the potential wine sales in the lounge car. Right up to the last day of wine tastings, the wine served at the tasting was kept separate from the complimentary wine served at dinner, and the accounting was kept separate.

Tom

 

[lyinel]

Just finished the SB trip on the AT, and after 25+ trips probably our last. Always in a deluxe sleeper car. To be honest at $1000 or more, it's far far cheaper to drive or fly, The difference in the past could be justified by the luxury, service, food, socialization, or ease of the AT. That is all gone now.

For example, while fares have gone up, in response we get.....

The filet and shrimp dinner with baked potato is now pot roast with a scoop of industrial mashed potatoes. The chicken was so small it was more llike an appetizer.

The special desert of the trip was a cookie, yes, a cookie.....it once was chocolate cake or something the chef made up...the OBS was stunned that I didn't want it.

Hardly saw the OBS after taking the order....never was asked if I needed another soft drink

Of course as noted the free wine at dinner no longer offered

Salad is smaller portion

Plastic place settings...

Try this one, coffee was served in a paper cup!! Not a mug, or plastic cup but a paper cup like you get in the lounge car or sleepers...wow, that's class!

no newspaper in the room....gone

if you remember far enough back, no juice bottles in the sleeper cars (long gone)

of course the wine tasting gone, along with the lounge car... no where to sit and chat with fellow travelers...

finger snacks... gone

cookies in the evening ...gone

fruit in the lounge... gone

cheese, crackers or other snacks in the lounge...gone

of course the first run movies are now replaced with something from the 1940's....

don't forget, for an upcharge you can get your car sooner upon arrival.....

and then they announce that there won't be enough room in the dinners for everyone for breakfast seating in the morning because we're running early arrival and the train is full. sorry, you may be out of luck getting something to eat, but there is coffe or tea available..... it was comical.....and pathetic....

Of course it did save me some money on tips....

We did arrive early which they boasted about, but then had to wait anyway till the usual arrival time because the station crew wasn't in yet!! This has to be a government operation for sure...

Give it a few more years, and watch the transition to box lunches, first for free and than as an upcharge. I can see people bringing their coolers and take out food bags with them....as is most already bring their own wine and snacks....

We've recommended the AT sleeper or roomette for 20 years, won't do so any longer. It's just over a days drive, and 1/3 the cost by car, with better food, better rest in a hotel, a shower and a chance to see some scenery its money better spent else where.

I wish them luck, but for us we're going back on the road...

 

[greatcats]

Lyinel - You have just persuaded me to never bother taking the Auto Train. I have driven myself from Arizona to Newfoundland and North Carolina to Alaska, so it would not bother me to drive Virginia to Florida. What a shame this has become! It has been said that bureaucracies foster and encourage mediocrity.

 

[Bus Nut]

What sort of customer is truly beholden to the Auto Train regardless of the service or cost?

People who are terrified of flying and/or people who can't drive long distances easily (or simply don't want to).

If they're terrified of flying they can always take another train or a bus. If they have trouble driving long distances they have the option of stopping often and/or for long periods along the way when driving. I don't dispute that the Auto-Train is popular. What I'm disputing is that it's any sort of critical transportation link that cannot be replaced with other options. Also, see neroden's post above.

The deal is that the consensus in this country, at least among the political class, is that Amtrak is supposed to be focused on efficient operations, and that any "captive" riders are entitled to the minimum required by law (per ADA) which is more than they deserve, for their sins, and that's it. Any "frills" are, by this reasoning, at the expense of "the taxpayer" (it goes without saying that captive riders are not taxpayers, even though they are, because shut up, that's why) and hence incompatible with such riders' station in life.

If you go back to the old Puritan morality and Protestant work ethic you'll see why the comfort of Amtrak customers (and surely employees) is small potatoes compared to enhancing efficiency metrics.

Other countries see this situation differently and happily pay labor costs for lightly-utilized food & beverage services. Their citizens see convenient, robust, comfortable train service as a public good and a visible manifestation of good government. They don't see armies of liveried government workers as "Waste!", they see it as "Woo! My country rocks! Take that, lame neighboring countries!"

 

[Bus Nut]

We did arrive early which they boasted about, but then had to wait anyway till the usual arrival time because the station crew wasn't in yet!! This has to be a government operation for sure...

This is a solvable problem. Perhaps riders and rider advocacy groups could get on it. Don't expect Amtrak to jump on anything in this climate, though, because bringing a crew in earlier means paying overtime or hiring additional staff. Sure, that's not as glib as blaming lazy/hidebound/inefficient government workers, but that's the truth. When you've cut staffing down to the bone already there's no fat left to shift around and repurpose.

Maybe the State of Florida could sponsor an earlier deboard for early trains, complete with some friendly Disney tie-ins to welcome the 'birds back to the Sunshine State?

/that last was a joke, in case anyone missed the point

 

[skull-48]

People have stated disapproval of Don Phillip's rants, but what Lyinel stated really cuts to the chase. The extras DO matter. A trip on a long distance train is supposed to feel special. It's longer, more scenic, different for most people as a way of travel, and therefore should not have the same feel as a 3 hour flight from point A to point B. This year, for the first time in a long time, my wife and I opted for other ways of travel, rather than be nickeled and dimed out of amenities we enjoyed, and were used to.

I don't blame Boardman for the insane Lakeshore and Capital delays. That situation seems to be improving. However he is to blame for Amtrak skimping on amenities, amenities that were there for years. Look, I'm a railfan and you can put me anywhere, on any train, and I'll be happy. But my wife was annoyed at the skimping, and I can see her point. People have said, here and elsewhere, I don't miss flowers, newspapers, wine get togethers, welcome aboard snacks,free juice or coffee, steaks, on and on. When does this stop? If on time performance had taken a quantum leap forward I could see it. But no, it's worse. Boardman is supposed to be in charge. The average passenger cares little about congressional issues or heavy duty freight lines. They paid their fare, and if they see things diminished, they will soon opt for other means of transport. I'm in my mid sixties and have ridden Amtrak since it's inception. Now, for the first time, I'm feeling a bit angry. We're being asked to forget what train travel should be about. If there isn't pride at the top, how can the operation be run well. Sorry, pride in bean counting doesn't qualify..

 

[jis]

According to the February 2015 issue of Trains Magazine, the Auto Train consist has now gone completely LED lighting. This reduced the electrical load enough to allow the addition of an entire extra passenger car. So the train can now have 17 cars instead of 16. As for whether the additional car will be a Sleeper or Coach, will depend on the revenue profile, and will be determined based on that for heavy traffic periods.

Incidentally, Auto Train withe extra revenue car has been doing quite well since the "cuts" took place. It is not clear that there has been any significant loss of clientele as a result of the cuts.

 

[OBS]

Evidently that 17th car won't be the extra lounge?