Auto Train Cuts

[dlagrua]

The way I view AGR points is that they are an extra incentive that merchants offer ( and pay Amtrak) to entice purchases from their shopping portal. I do not believe that the seller Chase Credit Card processing fee figures into it or is part of it. When you have a problem you contact Amtrak AGR not Chase so I believe that Amtrak is the administrator that runs the show charging the merchants directly.. Perhaps the points do cost merchants only .0125 each. I find it hard to believe that its that low but it could be. Even when there is a sale Amtrak charges us about .02 per point.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm talking about the credit card, I don't use Amtraks portal. I don't think it would be useful for what i sell anyway.

 

[Nathanael]

The Auto Train has never made a profit under full accounting. Costs jumped between 2010 and 2011, but that was not unique to the Auto Train

Eh, pretty much was. Other trains saw a mishmash of fluctuations due to the accounting, some up some down. There was a definite jump on everything due to the G.W. Bush-ordered raises, yes. The AT was coming closer and closer to breakeven each year...

(though it probably had the largest percentage jump)

The AT's allocated costs roughly *doubled*, IIRC. That's not due to labor contracts, that's got to be allocation procedure.

Aside from the new calculation method being introduced around that time, a new labor contract went into force in 2010 (as I recall) and Amtrak's costs are predominately labor ones, especially on the long distance trains.

 

[Garrett - AT Passenger]

I can't believe Amtrak is taking the little amenities away. It's what sets the Auto Train apart. It beats flying. The Auto Train is a wonderful experience. Have taken it many many times - Sleeper class and coach. The great thing about the wine and cheese tasting is that your vacation starts as soon as you get on the train. Laughter, meeting new people, joking with the staff. It's a social hour for those who want to be social. Judging by the crowded lounge cars, a lot of people enjoy being social. To expect one lounge car to accommodate the whole train is crazy. The free wine at dinner in sleeper class is a very nice touch. Judging from my experience most passengers take advantage of a glass or two of wine with dinner. If necessary, put a surcharge if you want to participate in the wine and cheese reception and wine with dinner. Considering driving again.

 

[Allypet]

I asked a friend in Amtrak about the coffee machines on the AT. He told me that the fresh fruit is scheduled to be discontinued when the current supplies run out, the small water bottles in the sleeper rooms are in danger of being cut, but the coffee machines in the sleepers are safe for now.

 

[Mark M.]

I've been riding the Autotrain since before Amtrak was running it. First rode it in the 70's at some point and for a number of years under the Autotrain Corporation. Now THEY had a lounge car. Full dome with a entertainer on keyboard or guitar. I've enjoyed the couple times the last few trips in 2013 when the sleeper lounge was one of the older cars. I know the attendant didn't get much business on the lower level but I love the windows going from down at waist level and wrapping into the ceiling. Great views.

I (now in my early 50's) ride it aprox 3-4 round trips per year. I moved from near Lorton VA to FL a couple years ago so the reasons for the trips have changed but I still use it regularly.

For about the last 4 years I've switched from coach to roomettes. Primarily because the single coach rider now longer has much chance of an empty seat beside them. I have considered just buying two coach seats too. I'm not big, I just don't like cuddling up with strangers.

My folks (in their mid 70's) are now snow birds & do one round trip per year.

I will miss the sleeper lounge for the community, sense of adventure, and ability to change position. My folks feel the same. We'd play board games or cards when the movie wasn't being played at deafening levels. For my folks a greater distance to the lounge (likely full anyway) will not be an option as walking on the train is motion is difficult for them. Even with the coach and dining being closer they'd pick a time when the train was moving slowly to move whenever possible. I enjoyed the reception but it's not a big deal to me.

As for chatter about a fourth dinner seating, I find this hard to believe. Two of my last four trips I've been told the train was sold out, but that there would be no 9:00 seating. Two of the trips I was allowed to make a 9:00 seating reservation then announcements were made underway that those with a 9:00 seating would have to dine at 7:00. In those cases after eating at 7:00, a 9:00 announcement was then made anyway. It seemed like it was just an attempt to reduce the number of seatings. I assumed due to staff wanting to knock off earlier. Might be wrong, but this is the impression it gives. Not enough to sour me on the Auto Train overall but it can appear to a traveler as either deception or ineptitude. General attitude of dining staff has gone downhill over time, with a couple notable pleasant exceptions. Room attendants have been universally pleasant. Food quality almost always very good at least.

With the longer distance to walk for sleepers to dining, I think they are going to get a LOT more requests for dinner service to the sleeper accommodations. My folks who got the notice about the cutback have already discussed this.

Neither can get into an upper bunk. They've done the roomette with one person hanging out in the sleeper lounge much of the night. They did the bedroom this trip and hoped both could sleep in the double, but that wasn't good / roomy enough for them due to leg pain issues. etc. So even then one ended up in the lounge. They will really miss the lounge. They may try getting two roomettes in the future.

 

[guest_nj_2]

Just rode the southbound (off-peak direction) AT.

A few observations:

- The lounge car was almost empty the entire trip.

There hasn't been any discernible attempts of coach passengers to "overtake"

the lounge that previously "belonged" to sleeper passengers only

- The fifth coach car (now accessible from the sleeper section where I rode) was totally empty.

I guess they carried it empty to utilize on the northbound (peak) direction.

- The lack of china tableware and paper tablecloths were hardly noticeable.

Definitely doesn't look like this should sway peoples' decision whether to ride AT or not.

What was very noticeable, however, was the MARKED DECLINE IN THE QUALITY OF FOOD.

The portions was smaller than before, and whether lying on china plate or not, the

Chicken Provence was terrible. Never had the AT [sleeper dining car] meal that bad in the past.

Unlike china plates, mediocre food *MAY* alter peoples' decisions to ride AT, as the food is the

major part of the whole AT experience (even harder to justify paying steep sleeper fares without

a decent food)..

 

[Barry Williams]

My issue with the changes are, we were not notified until after the reservation was made.

My trip is in July, we paid for our reservation March 23rd and was then emailed on 3/25 about the changes to sleeper car amenities.

I consider all factors when checking rates for the train over flying and renting a car when traveling to Florida.

Part of the charm of the Auto Train are the very things they are targeting to remove.

I'm not a drinker so for me I don't mind the wine one way or another, but I've been bringing my children on the AT and have now graduated to bringing my grandchildren. We've met many good people over the years in the lounge, the children are settled down for bed with the evening movies and it gives us a place to go to to get out of the room.

I was surprised to hear about upcoming changes to the menu, this was not included in the 3/25 email.

Way to screw up a good thing Amtrak, greed never results in anything good.

 

[Allypet]

I posted this on another thread, but Since it is about the AT I think it bears reposting here. Below are messages I received from someone in Amtrak about the AT cuts. I removed all reference to this person. I take this to mean this is only the beginning of cuts, and things will get worse before they will get better, and the fact that they are so over working the crew will also have a chilling effect on service. I ride the AT very often, so it hits close to home for me.

"I notice that the people who are most certain that this new plan will work, are mostly located far from A-T's route and probably have never ridden the train and probably never will. 90 min. per seating in the diner is a ludicrous plan, created by office-dwellers who have never worked on board. It may become possible when salads are eliminated., which will happen soon when the job of the guy who makes the salads is eliminated (probably about a month from now, when jobs go up for re-bid). Right now, veterans are looking at transfer options, possibly quitting altogether, retiring, or other options. Diner crews give up their own dinner break and STILL can't keep the 4 dinner seatings on time. The one lounge attendant is often overwhelmed. People who don't know the job will blame the O.B.S. crews, but the fault lies with managers who are TOTALLY uninvolved in the day to day implementation of their bogus plan. I repeat, NO experience O.B.S. personnel were involved in formulating this plan, which has more holes than a sieve. As usual, the onboard service people are making the best of the situation and keeping it from getting as bad as it otherwise could get. I've never seen morale this low."

"So far the coffee is safe. Free water may be a future casualty. ALL fruit (bananas, apples, oranges) is supposed to be discontinued when current supplies run out"

 

[Guest - me]

Another VERY disappointed person here. Our family did enjoy the wine, the sleeper lounge, the reception, the better food, the silver ware, etc. All of these things added to the experience and helped me justify the costs over flying or driving.

I booked for Oct/Nov 2014 before these changes were announced/rumored and am not happy at all. I will not cancel my AT since I'd get charged a cancellation fee anyway ... But we are not booking the train for our recently added summer vacation and won't AT again unless the prices come down to support the decreased value. When I booked our fall trip, it was more than last year but I factored in the EXPERIENCE and booked. I won't be able to do this again.

My only hope is that Amtrak will come to its senses by October.

 

[Ryan]

I'm sure Amtrak will be happy to sell the room you're not booking to someone that is willing to pay for it.

 

[SarahZ]

Way to screw up a good thing Amtrak, greed never results in anything good.

I'd hardly chalk it up to "greed". It's not like Amtrak is even close to turning a profit.

 

[Anderson]

Looking at the February MPR, the Auto Train was running at over 70% of capacity. I suspect this played at least some role in the decision to switch out the second cafe for an additional coach.

 

[afigg]

Looking at the February MPR, the Auto Train was running at over 70% of capacity. I suspect this played at least some role in the decision to switch out the second cafe for an additional coach.

Don't forget that the AT was running with the additional coach car in February with 19 Superliners as discussed earlier in this thread. The coming of warmer weather with the increased A/C power load triggered the cutback to 18 Superliners total and the dropping of the sleeper lounge car. I should calculate the total theoretical capacity of the "new" AT consist.
The AT is one of the few bright spots in the ridership numbers for the mostly dismal February monthly report. If it ran every day in February, then it had an average of 351 passengers. Which is a lot, given the typical unbalanced traffic pattern on the AT.

 

[neroden]

Don't forget that the AT was running with the additional coach car in February with 19 Superliners as discussed earlier in this thread. The coming of warmer weather with the increased A/C power load triggered the cutback to 18 Superliners total and the dropping of the sleeper lounge car. I should calculate the total theoretical capacity of the "new" AT consist.

Energy efficiency improvements should make a huge difference on the AT. Does Amtrak have anyone who appreciates energy efficiency?
I wasn't kidding when I said that new A/C uses roughly 3/4 the energy of 1970s-era A/C for the same results. I've looked up historical COP and SEER ratings. Unless Amtrak's Superliner I A/C units were replaced since their initial construction, they are *obsolete* and should be replaced ASAP. (The ductwork shouldn't need major alteration.)

The savings from switching to LED lighting is far larger than that.

If Amtrak is really cutting the lounge due to HEP restrictions, then someone at Amtrak doesn't understand energy efficiency -- upgrade the A/C and lighting and run several more cars. Just do it. Payback is FAST, much faster than anything else Amtrak could do.

 

[Allypet]

I originally was upset about all the cuts to the Autotrain. After speaking to many people I now realize that I should be thankful that I have been given a seat and a window for 18 hours. After getting past my selfishness about amenities I now think that Amtrak really can be maximizing revenue on the AT with very little outlay. So Amtrak here are my suggestions for the AT.

1) charge the automobile fee to motorized wheelchairs, they can't be used on the train, so why haul them for free?

2) eliminate the AAA discount. Why should you give a discount to a competing form of transportation anyway?

3) eliminate all the diner cars. Give everyone a box lunch when they board, the crew savings will be tremendous.

4) eliminate the kids and the senior discounts all together on the AT. You will make more money during the summer when families are traveling to Disney, and during the fall and spring you will make more when the snow birds migrate. A win win for everyone (except the passengers)

5) remove all free personal care items, then add them to the lounge car, you can sell towels, tissues, blankets, sheets and toilet paper.

6) remove all superliners cars from the route. Replace them with Amcoach I 84-seat coach cars, you can get at least an extra 10 paying passengers per car!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

2) eliminate the AAA discount. Why should you give a discount to a competing form of transportation anyway?

While I can't help but note just a wee touch of sarcasm in your post, I actually think this makes sense, as AAA does a lot of advocacy work.

From wordiQ.com:

Current operations:

The name AAA refers to a national consortium of numerous independent automobile clubs. Members belong to an individual club (such as AAA Texas or Auto Club South, for example) and the clubs in turn own AAA. The member clubs have arranged a reciprocal service system so that members of any participating club are able to receive member services from any other affiliate club. Member dues finance all club services as well as the operations of the national organization.

From the standpoint of the consumer, AAA clubs primarily provide emergency road services to members. Clubs also distribute road maps and travel publications. Many offices sell automobile liability insurance and provide travel agency, notary, and messenger services.

AAA still lobbies the American federal government and state governments for increased spending on roads and automobile safety, and against gas taxes and emissions regulations. They use their large membership (25% of US households) to assert that a large percentage of Americans agree with them. Their opponents argue that the AAA does not tell prospective members that it is a lobby group, and that the members join in order to have emergency towing privileges, not because they agree with the political positions of the organization, and that the AAA exploits their members' ignorance.

 

[andersone]

Au contrare to the comment about AAA - My local agent Judy is very Amtrak savvy and I use them for all my trips,,,, Amtrak included

 

[Paulus]

Don't forget that the AT was running with the additional coach car in February with 19 Superliners as discussed earlier in this thread. The coming of warmer weather with the increased A/C power load triggered the cutback to 18 Superliners total and the dropping of the sleeper lounge car. I should calculate the total theoretical capacity of the "new" AT consist.

Energy efficiency improvements should make a huge difference on the AT. Does Amtrak have anyone who appreciates energy efficiency?
I wasn't kidding when I said that new A/C uses roughly 3/4 the energy of 1970s-era A/C for the same results. I've looked up historical COP and SEER ratings. Unless Amtrak's Superliner I A/C units were replaced since their initial construction, they are *obsolete* and should be replaced ASAP. (The ductwork shouldn't need major alteration.)

The savings from switching to LED lighting is far larger than that.

If Amtrak is really cutting the lounge due to HEP restrictions, then someone at Amtrak doesn't understand energy efficiency -- upgrade the A/C and lighting and run several more cars. Just do it. Payback is FAST, much faster than anything else Amtrak could do.

Might want to consider the economic life left in the Superliners and how long it would take to cycle all of them through Beech Grove.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

AAA LOBBYS AGAINST PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Period. End of discussion. What their agent knows is irrelevant. Anyone who claims to be a transit proponent and holds personal membership in AAA is a self defeating hypocrite. That's not an insult, it's a fact. Either come to grips with it or drop the membership.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

GML: I couldn't have said it better. :hi:

I wonder if the AAA fan even read the quote I posted before posting... :blink:

 

[afigg]

Energy efficiency improvements should make a huge difference on the AT. Does Amtrak have anyone who appreciates energy efficiency?

I wasn't kidding when I said that new A/C uses roughly 3/4 the energy of 1970s-era A/C for the same results. I've looked up historical COP and SEER ratings. Unless Amtrak's Superliner I A/C units were replaced since their initial construction, they are *obsolete* and should be replaced ASAP. (The ductwork shouldn't need major alteration.)

The savings from switching to LED lighting is far larger than that.

If Amtrak is really cutting the lounge due to HEP restrictions, then someone at Amtrak doesn't understand energy efficiency -- upgrade the A/C and lighting and run several more cars. Just do it. Payback is FAST, much faster than anything else Amtrak could do.

The AT operates with Superliner IIs unless I'm mistaken. Amtrak has 180 active Superliner IIs on the roster. With 18 per train, the AT probably ties up around 45 Superliner IIs with reserves, maintenance, and inspection cycles. Amtrak could upgrade just the S-IIs used by the AT, but that would create a captive fleet which leads to maintenance headaches.

A mid-life extension program to to rebuild and update all 180 S-IIs would probably be a good idea, AT HEP limits or not. One million dollars per car would be a reasonable placeholder number for a major mid-life rebuild with new HVAC, LED lighting, new higher capacity pass-through power cables, replace the plumbing, major restoration of the interior.

Ok, so where does the $180 million for 180 S-IIs come from? Amtrak has requested $295 million for capital grants for the LD trains in FY2015. Since Congress rarely gives Amtrak the full amount requested, lets say Congress agrees to provide $520 million for operating subsidy and $250 million for capital for the LD trains and agrees to keep the LD funding at that level for the next 6 years. That would provide Amtrak with $1.5 billion to use for rolling stock, ADA compliance, and strategic track upgrade projects for the LD routes. Apply 2/3rds of the $1.5B in capital to rolling stock for regular overhauls, mid-life extension of the S-IIs and the down payments on orders for 150 locomotives and 300+ Superliner I replacements with 20 to 30 year RIFF loans covering the rest of the cost of the orders.

Easy, right?

 

[minnie]

So are they adding more car carriers to accommodate more passengers? More people more cars.

 

[Paulus]

So are they adding more car carriers to accommodate more passengers? More people more cars.

There's a 50 car limit, so no. However, they're probably running with empty spaces on the car carriers right now.

 

[afigg]

While Amtrak is trying to cut costs on the AT, at least they are thinking about the kids! Well, from May 28 to August 28 anyway. Amtrak press release on a $39 kids fare for the AT.

WASHINGTON – Amtrak Auto Train is offering a special one-way fare for children ages 2-12 to travel the rails this summer from May 28 – Aug. 28.

Book travel now to May 16 and the kids fare is $39 when accompanied by an adult for coach travel on the Auto Train only; no sleeper upgrades permitted. Use promotional code H246. Terms and conditions apply.