Auto Train Cuts

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The summer AT load factors have increased since Amtrak began focusing on college students from. FL going north to school & going after families going to DC & VA for sightseeing in the summer.
Is the higher load factor due to college students? I would have attributed it mostly to that FL and Orlando is now a major summer destination for vacation trips, not just for winter vacations or people staying in FL for the entire winter season. And people in FL traveling north for vacation travel. The population in FL has grown so much since the original AT started, that capturing even a tiny slice of the Northeast to Florida I-95 market is enough to keep the AT close to full these days.

When I posted the press release about the $39 low fare summer season special for children (2-12), I did not expect it to generate this much, ahem, discussion. :huh: The kids are already eligible to travel at 1/2 price. Checking Amsnag, the typical adult coach fares still available on AT for June and July are $102 or $127 buckets. So the kids would be paying $51 or $63.50 under the normal 1/2 discount. A special fare for $39 for coach travel only is not that big of a savings. But it might be enough to entice some families to try the AT for coach travel, hopefully on the less filled trains, because everyone loves a sale!
 
The summer AT load factors have increased since Amtrak began focusing on college students from. FL going north to school & going after families going to DC & VA for sightseeing in the summer.
Is the higher load factor due to college students? I would have attributed it mostly to that FL and Orlando is now a major summer destination for vacation trips, not just for winter vacations or people staying in FL for the entire winter season. And people in FL traveling north for vacation travel. The population in FL has grown so much since the original AT started, that capturing even a tiny slice of the Northeast to Florida I-95 market is enough to keep the AT close to full these days.
When I posted the press release about the $39 low fare summer season special for children (2-12), I did not expect it to generate this much, ahem, discussion. :huh: The kids are already eligible to travel at 1/2 price. Checking Amsnag, the typical adult coach fares still available on AT for June and July are $102 or $127 buckets. So the kids would be paying $51 or $63.50 under the normal 1/2 discount. A special fare for $39 for coach travel only is not that big of a savings. But it might be enough to entice some families to try the AT for coach travel, hopefully on the less filled trains, because everyone loves a sale!
Right.
 
Might want to consider the economic life left in the Superliners and how long it would take to cycle all of them through Beech Grove.
You really think the Superliners are going to be replaced any time soon?
Based on the latest reported fleet plan, the first replacements for the Superliners would arrive in 2021. The proposed delivery schedule would have Superliner Is still in service into 2023 and Superliner IIs still in service into 2025. This schedule appears to be *WILDLY OPTIMISTIC* given that no funding has been identified for it.

Energy effeciency retrofits would have very fast paybacks. In the case of LED lighting, probably within less than a year; in the case of HVAC, probably less than 5 years.

Yes, such retrofits should be done -- certainly for the IIs, and probably for the Is as well. Maybe if funding is actually identified in 2016 you might stop the rebuild projects at that point (as if that's likely).
 
This thread has morphed into a discussion of the replacement of Superliners, and strayed away from its original subject, which was the changes in Auto Train onboard service. Meanwhile, the thread that covered a very specific parking issue at the Auto Train station has morphed into coverage of this thread's original intent. Sometimes conversations evolve that way. Nevertheless, I hope we can get both threads back on topic
 
RRdude had a less than flattering review on his trip on the AT the other day on the parking for the AT thread. I think the removal of the sleeper lounge and the increased passenger load caused a lot of problems for his trip, and will cause even more during the summer. I am booked in July and I am not looking forward to it. I understand from a friend who works on the AT that what's left of the dedicated crew of the AT (that Amtrak likes to advertise) are asking for transfers because the workload, especially in the diners, is overwhelming.

I think it will get worse before it gets better.
 
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*Sigh*. Amtrak management did stupid things which drive away business.

I've read the third or fourth "Used to take Auto Train all the time, never again" review on one train website or another now: in all cases, it's due to the complete disaster which has been made of the dining and lounge service by overcrowding it.
 
Read the entire thread and am confused about what to expect on AT during a Sanford/Lorton trip later this month in sleeper. What are the actual changes we will experience from our southbound trip in 12/13? Different and/or inferior food? Same menu/food in both sleeper and coach? No more table cloth/china/silver? All plastic tableware? No comp wine at dinner? No wine tasting/cheese/crackers? Four dinner seatings at new times? No fruit/mini water bottles in sleeper? Degraded service due to more passengers with less/same crew? Anything else?
 
The dining car debacle and the resulting over crowding won't be the first hair-brain move that Amtrak has made. When you make terrible cost cutting moves like that without thinking them out, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. I hope that things get far worse so that it will bring light to a bad situation and a change back to the old system. The A/T is Amtrak's most popular train, the highest revenue producer and they've set out to ruin it.
 
The dining car debacle and the resulting over crowding won't be the first hair-brain move that Amtrak has made. When you make terrible cost cutting moves like that without thinking them out, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. I hope that things get far worse so that it will bring light to a bad situation and a change back to the old system. The A/T is Amtrak's most popular train, the highest revenue producer and they've set out to ruin it.
The Auto Train is far, far away from being Amtrak's most popular or revenue producing train. As for being a debacle, let's wait to see what the actual ridership and revenue figures come out to. I suspect that they won't bear out such proclamations.
 
The dining car debacle and the resulting over crowding won't be the first hair-brain move that Amtrak has made. When you make terrible cost cutting moves like that without thinking them out, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. I hope that things get far worse so that it will bring light to a bad situation and a change back to the old system. The A/T is Amtrak's most popular train, the highest revenue producer and they've set out to ruin it.
The Auto Train is far, far away from being Amtrak's most popular or revenue producing train. As for being a debacle, let's wait to see what the actual ridership and revenue figures come out to. I suspect that they won't bear out such proclamations.
Not for some time, at any rate, as many people have bookings already, and either don't know about the cuts or are willing to stay with the rezzies to give it a chance.

Year over year starting one year from this point is where you'll start to really be able to tell the tale.
 
And there are others like me who have made several booking after knowing about the cuts, since my personal attitude towards them is mostly "meh".... whatever.

All else being equal, year over year is a good timeframe to get a reasonable assessment of the effects of the cuts.
 
Read the entire thread and am confused about what to expect on AT during a Sanford/Lorton trip later this month in sleeper. What are the actual changes we will experience from our southbound trip in 12/13?
Long, long waits for dinner and nowhere to wait. (This is the part which does tick people off. It WILL reduce ridership and revenue. There is no question about this. The losses may be masked by other causes of ridership and revenue increase, or they may not, but this is going to drive people away, as it already has done.)

Same menu/food in both sleeper and coach? No more table cloth/china/silver? All plastic tableware? No comp wine at dinner? No wine tasting/cheese/crackers? Four dinner seatings at new times? No fruit/mini water bottles in sleeper? Degraded service due to more passengers with less/same crew?
All of the above, if I'm not mistaken, except silver. You should still have real metal flatware.
 
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Read the entire thread and am confused about what to expect on AT during a Sanford/Lorton trip later this month in sleeper. What are the actual changes we will experience from our southbound trip in 12/13?
Long, long waits for dinner and nowhere to wait. (This is the part which does tick people off. It WILL reduce ridership and revenue. There is no question about this. The losses may be masked by other causes of ridership and revenue increase, or they may not, but this is going to drive people away, as it already has done.)
It may drive some individuals away, but if, as some are fond of claiming, there is an excess of demand sufficient to warrant a longer train, odds are that they'll not see a net loss in ridership. Besides, Amtrak gets a bit more gross revenue per coach rider than they do for sleeper on the Auto Train, a nefarious strategy which curtails sleeper sleeper demand in favor of replacing with coach cars, with a higher capacity per car as well, is all for the better :p
 
Frankly it sounds to me like the overcrowded dining car / lounge situation is going to irritate coach passengers too.

It's probably very difficult to measure the loss of ridership from screwing up service, because there's an underlying trend of increasing ridership. But the loss of ridership from screwing up service is definitely there.
 
To Olympian HI and Guest_CREW-DORM#2524_*

I was misinformed about the fate of Auto Train Lounge 33101, so my comments were in error. I'm not certain whether it was ever returned to service after the Crescent City derailment, but it does still exist. My last info was that the car was in Beech Grove a couple weeks ago.
 
To follow up on my AT trip, RT, with family. I think the word 'Cluster-Fu%#" was INVENTED for what now passes for meal service on the AT.

Gawd I have empathy for the crew. Those miserable *******s who came up with "plan" of dumping a lounge-car ought to be sent to a Siberian Re-Education camp.

Four meals in the diner, two dinner, two "breakfast". (Even though over the PA, the staff was encoraging sleeper pax to "walk to the lounge to get your breakfast, same meal......opps, strike that, lounge is full, we'll make another announcement in ten-fifteen minutes..."

So, had the chance to interact with four other travelers, three had taken AT, multiple times, one was first trip.

ALL complained of the dinning "experience". Granted, all received "The" email, so may be on the lookout, but the comments were NOT railfan oriented. The comments were, "it worked so well, generally, b4, WHY did they change it? Gobs of pax standing in ends of diner for breakfast, only to be told, "Can't wait there, we'll make an announcement..."

Then pax return to their rooms, only to hear, "This announcement is for the sleeper car passengers, the sleeper Car passengers only! There is now room in the sleeper diner please make your way to the dining car. sleeper car passengers only! So the passengers make a quick about-face and literally walk-run back to the diner. I experienced this first hand as I was almost trampled by three young kids from the room adjacent to mine....

Only to be followed moments later by another announcement over the public address system, "This announcement is for coach passengers, coach passengers only, coach passengers there is now room in the coach diner for breakfast, please make your way to the coach diner, coach passengers only..."

This PA-Battle goes on ALL MORNING.... So nice to hear....

The meals for dinner were good. Steak, chicken, veggue lasagna. Of course the LSA-Diner now needs to sell and make change for wine several times, during a dinner seating, which precludes that person from actually assisting the service attendants in the diner as much as they could.... I spoke with a SA-Diner, and he said it is not uncommon for the crew in the diner to serve their last meal and close the diner well after midnight. And of course working that late, it almost prohibits the crew from getting any kind of meal and they go to bed hungry.

I took a walk through the diner during my meal, and noticed that well over half of the salads that were on the tables seemed to of been "touched" or at least partially consumed.

There was a mixture of China and plastic-ware used during the meal service. It seems as though once all the china and flatware is used it is not cleaned during the meal service in the dishwashers in the kitchen below. It seems as though once all the China is dirty, everything reverts to plastic and four-and-one plastic utensils.

If you count the four other parties that I dined with at both dinner and breakfast, round trip, and include myself and my family, it was almost 100% that AutoTrain would NOT be an option for future travel to Florida again. How sad. Amtrak truly has "killed the goose that laid the golden egg".

Our train attendant-sleeper on the way down, Dexter, seemed very preoccupied and didn't really want to interact with us much. He got 10 bucks. Our train attendant-sleeper on the northbound run, even though we were almost 3 hours late departing, was fabulous. A young African-American female whose first name started with the letter D, just cannot recall her name right now. She has been working for Amtrak on the autotrain for about 3 1/2 years she got 20 bucks.

In general the train attendant-sleeper staff were very, very, preoccupied with bringing meals to passengers in their rooms. I have never seen that kind of traffic in the hallways with meals being delivered to rooms on any train I have ever been on before. Amtrak will have to increase the par level of white paper bags in the future, or they may run out.....
 
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What if - and I'm being sorta serious here - they reverted to trolley meal service at the seats of the passengers? If they could just cart the preheated meals to the coach passenger's seats, that'd almost be like the airlines from 30 years ago. Surely they could manage that.
 
Oh "how fun" SIT in your seat, aisle seat even better(!), and try to eat your steak off a small tray-table, and cut it with a plastic fork. Zero interaction with other diners, nah, not for me. I see that as an option on regionals, but not LD chair cars. Logistics and safety of food in cars/cart.... Wud take a LOT of thought to make THAT work on LD. Just MHO...
 
Hey - I know it's not a popular idea. Perhaps an option for coach passengers - just something to keep the diners less crowded. Many may prefer not to eat in the diner. There are no diners on aircraft, after all.

That being said - it would redefine the differentiation between coach and sleeper pax.
 
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