Autonomous, Battery-powered freight cars

[Ryan]

From here:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/0...tartup-bets-on-autonomous-electric-rail-cars/
I can't say that this is something that I expect to become viable...

 

[jis]

My favorite conjecture is that truckers getting the upper hand is much less an issue of lack of rail technology and more of an issue of lack of vision, imagination and competence among the executives running railroads today in the US. At each step they have voluntarily exited huge swaths of the freight transportation business chasing after what they think is cream skimming in the industry. So they have a more concentrated presence in an ever smaller chunk of the overall market, and now don't have a clue as to what to do about it.

 

[me_little_me]

Well, battery technology is getting much better. There is, under development, lithium-solid batteries which supposedly have 10X the storage of Lithium-Ion and which may start production in ten years. The technology promises even more advantages such as the length of time they will continue to be useful - up to 50 years or more and their resistance to internal shorting ala some battery fires that have occurred.

We shall see but then if we could predict the future, we'd all be zillionaires.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Total waste of time and energy. How does this help anything? People with too much money and no clue how things work in real life.

Just painful.

 

[MARC Rider]

The typical capacity of a rail freight car is 110 tons. That's 220,000 pounds. A typical 18-wheeler tractor trailer has a cargo capacity of about 60,000 pounds (30 tons) . (The empty truck and trailer weight about 20,000 lbs.) A 100 car freight train can thus haul 22 million pounds. This device seems to create the equivalent of a truck on rails. Why would anyone want to clutter up track with a 1-car train carrying 110 tons when they can hook up 100 cars to a locomotive (or locomotives) and haul 11,000 tons? In an ideal world, all long-distance freight would go by trains to regional multimodal terminals, where drayage trucks would then do the "last mile" for delivery (except for customers that happen to be located along the tracks.) In this way, there would be way fewer emissions, the roads wouldn't be cluttered with long haul truckers, and the truckers would be able to go home every night.

By the way, Wabtech and BNSF are doing a pilot of a battery electric freight locomotive in revenue service in California. However, the battery locomotive is in a consist with a bunch of diesel locomotives, so it's more like a battery diesel hybrid. They're claiming fuel economy improvements of 10%.

 

[Ryan]

Well, battery technology is getting much better. There is, under development, lithium-solid batteries which supposedly have 10X the storage of Lithium-Ion and which may start production in ten years. The technology promises even more advantages such as the length of time they will continue to be useful - up to 50 years or more and their resistance to internal shorting ala some battery fires that have occurred.

We shall see but then if we could predict the future, we'd all be zillionaires.

Batteries, I'm totally on board with (no pun intended). I think we're not all that far off from battery or serial hybrid using battery being common on trains.

Now taking those batteries and making little autonomous containers running around on the rails? Get real. Just as soon as Tesla's "full" "self" "driving" becomes real.

 

[neroden]

Autonomous trains are a *lot* easier than autonomous cars -- see Docklands Light Rail and Vancouver SkyLink. However, nobody is willing to do it on routes with grade crossings -- that's been the public acceptance level. So while I expect autonomous freight trains on isolated mining lines (there may already be some), they won't be accepted on lines with grade crossings.

 

[west point]

Have not seen any mention of the weight of traction motors and various control systems. then there is the weight of the batteries.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

A typical 18-wheeler tractor trailer has a cargo capacity of about 60,000 pounds (30 tons) . (The empty truck and trailer weight about 20,000 lbs.)

A long haul truck equipped with a sleeper bunk will be able to haul 46,000 lbs. I don’t like any BOL that over 45,000 lbs. Day cab equipped can run higher but I am not sure of the max weight, but think it’s about 55,000.

In an ideal world, all long-distance freight would go by trains to regional multimodal terminals, where drayage trucks would then do the "last mile" for delivery.

I like your thinking, but let’s have good access to Highway from these terminals, and support service such as repairs and parking for equipment. New York spent tax payers money for a intermodal terminal. No traffic light at the driveway, two lane road with multiple turns and several miles before you get on a interstate highway. Resident area (mostly brand new construction) miles from most industrial areas.

In this way, there would be way fewer emissions, the roads wouldn't be cluttered with long haul truckers, and the truckers would be able to go home every night.

Well if we invested in intermodal terminal then we can just use electric tractors. End the local emissions issue forever.

Just because you work a ramp, does not mean you are sleeping in your bed ever night. A lot of intermodal work is the overnight runs, or at the very least early morning delivers.

Warehouse are weird with there operations times. There no fix pattern at all. Some deliveries are at night, some early AM, and some are banker hours. The whole pandemic work force is making massive changes to how we work, and how and when trucks deliver freight.

 

[PeeweeTM]

Interesting. If you look at bagage moving around in the basement of an airport, I can imagine how someone's imagination could see containers moving on their own or in small groups over rails.

On of my first objections would be air resistance. As a freight train driver, I really noticed the difference between a fully loaded container train or one with empty spots.
On the other hand, the average speed of a freigt train (from container entering the yard by truck until leaving a yard by truck) is pretty low; would you put that container on a rail chasis, it could leave instantaneously on the 'conveyer-rail-belt'. So even when the maximum speed could/would be low (avoiding air resistance), the time between departure and arrival could be better then conventional.
Ow, I'm not sure how Amtrak fits into this. The distances are to big for this principle: YouTube It's fun ...

No more people complaining about long trains blocking streets. Instead, more people complaining about railroad crossings being constantly active.
Tingtingting ... railcar passing ... wait for it ... tingtingting ... railcar passing ... until something somewhere breaks down.
So you need to get rid of all railroad crossings.

And you need double track or directional running everywhere.
Railcar controlled powerswitches everywhere.

Well, interesting food for thoughts, but still, for the near future, nah...

 

[Qapla]

It seems like an interesting concept that has a lot of hurdles to clear before it could become reality

 

[me_little_me]

It depends on where and how it's used. As someone mentioned, ore cars at a mine or processing plant. Also moving individual cars from the RR drop-off point to where the car needs to finally be or moving containers around a smaller yard. I can't see this as a reasonable idea to replace 100 car trains. But I can see it where a crane would lift the containers off a train to be redirected into yards or private area or vice versa or even in a large yard, especially if they need to be attached to a different train.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]