Bargains? Best Route? New Registree!

[Amtrakjo]

Hello everyone.

I was just pointed here from another site by a fellow train lover. I enjoy riding trains very much but have severe money constrictions. I am aware of the Rail Sale deals. Also, Amtrak used to advertise on e-bay but I haven't seen anything since last spring. I have 3 questions:

1) Does anyone know if Amtrak will ever resume selling on e-bay?

2) Other than Rail Sale (and the advertised discounts on the site...senior, student, AAA etc...) are there any bargains to be had?

3) What do you consider the best route to Florida (both Kissimmee and West Palm Beach) from Iowa City, Iowa?

 

[Trogdor]

For #3, I'd recommend the Zephyr (from Mt. Pleasant) to Chicago, Capitol Limited to DC, then Silver Star to Florida.

 

[haolerider]

Amtrak will not return to e-Bay. There was not enough movement in the prices to justify the deals.

Keep your eye on Rail Sale for the best bargains.

I would agree with the previous poster about the best route to Florida from your part of the country. Unfortunately, the logical route from Chicago through Atlanta does not exist.

 

[AlanB]

Depending on the routing you take and the dates of your trip, you may find the following codes helpful. Just enter the code into the promotion code box on the train selection page.

H426 25% off

H427 20% off

H428 15% off

Please note that not all codes work for all dates and trains. Additionally no other discounts can be used, like AAA, and the tickets will be non-refundable. So make sure you're really going before confirming a reservation with one of these codes.

 

[haolerider]

These are discount codes for inactive Guest Rewards members and are intended to be used for those members only. They expire on September 30th.

Alan, why would you give these out to someone who is obviously not a Guest Rewards member?

 

[PRR 60]

Well, if Amtrak wanted to limit these discounts to Guest Rewards members, then they are responsible to set up the system so that other cannot use the codes. Anyone can enter these codes and the system will accept the entry and apply the discount. So the codes are fair game. It is not up to us to protect Amtrak from the inadequacies of their own reservation system.

By the way, these codes and others are published on a well-known travel discussion internet site. Finding obscure and useful Amtrak discount codes can actually be quite entertaining.

 

[haolerider]

I fully understand they are "fair game" for anyone to use, but if people on this board are actually interested in the financial viability of Amtrak, it would seem that you would use whatever ethics you have to avoid "lessening the revenue" of a company that is already struggling, but then again, perhaps your ethics are the same that seem to exist in some of our major corporations throughout the country.

 

[AlanB]

These are discount codes for inactive Guest Rewards members and are intended to be used for those members only. They expire on September 30th.
Alan, why would you give these out to someone who is obviously not a Guest Rewards member?

First off, how do you know that AmtrakJo isn't a GR member? Perhaps even a lapsed member. I see nothing that AmtrakJo has posted that would in any way indicate if they are or are not a GR member.

Secondly, until you just told me, I had no clue what purpose of those codes was, other than they allow for a discount.

Third, as PRR60 mentioned, those codes are already available on the net on other forums. In fact, that's where I got them from.

Fourth, not everyone who visits these forums is necessarily independently wealthy. Our members have very diverse financial backgrounds. Many here have a real love of trains, yet they cannot afford to travel by train. So if my posting a code that's gonna save a poorer member a few bucks and allow him or her to take a train trip that they might not otherwise be able to take, then I for one see nothing wrong with that.

Amtrak is still getting revenue from that member and they are getting a spokesperson who will talk up rail travel to others both on that train and back at home. That alone is worth more than any loss Amtrak suffers from a discount.

Fifth, let’s just consider how much is lost. A trip on the Capitol Limited from Chicago to DC in September costs $66 one way, with the best discount the price drops to $49.50. That means on a round trip, a member would save 33 bucks. If 1,000 forum members were to take that trip next month, Amtrak's total loss would be $33,000. Mind you, we don’t even have that many members, but I added a few extra for the guests who visit the forums.

Frankly, I rather doubt that even 100 members would be able to take such a trip, so at worst Amtrak might loose 3,300 bucks. Either way, that's not gonna break the bank, much less even make a dent in Amtrak's financial problems.

Amtrak’s financial problems can only be solved by Congress, not by a few people refusing to use an available discount.

Finally, comparing the ethics of a company with Billions of dollars that rips off the public at large to the ethics of a person earning 30K, 40K, or even 50K taking a small discount on a ticket, is not even in the same league and not worthy of comparison.

Last but not least, let me just say the following since I haven’t posted this disclaimer in a while. I do not work for Amtrak in any way; I’m a computer consultant by trade. The above is simply my humble opinion and in no way should it be considered to represent the opinions of either Amtrak or the owner of this forum, Anthony. The fact that I am a moderator here on this forum should also not lend any weight to my opinion.

 

[whc6]

I didn't even know about the codes and I am a Guest Rewards member, as well as a NARP member.

Any enticement to get more people on the trains is OK by me. People are more likely to book travel when they think they are getting a deal.

 

[PRR 60]

...perhaps your ethics are the same that seem to exist in some of our major corporations throughout the country.

Perhaps they are!

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I have to agree with AlanB. From the posts by the member contemplating travel, cost is going to have a serious impact even on the go/nogo decision. Anything that increases the ridership on Amtrak will have the effect of making Amtrak funding more palatable for Congress. Riders generally are also voters. And a happy rider (discounts tend to make them that way) is a rider that will more likely promote Amtrak, therefore tending to increase ridership even more. Anyone who rides for more than $0 will increase revenue numbers. Discounts are a marketing tool. If they result in a happy rider who then promotes Amtrak, the marketing tool has been successful. If Amtrak wanted to restrict use of those discounts to a particular population subset, they have the ability to do that by so instructing whoever writes the code for their website. They elected not to do that.

 

[Amtrakjo]

Hi everyone , especially Alan,

Those of you who objected to Alan helping me by posting codes...that's just counterproductive.

First...it's true, these codes are posted on the internet. If y'all are worried about me taking advantage of them (and thereby lessening Amtrak's revenue) chill, I can't even afford those prices.

I will have to use Rail Sale if I can. But thank you. my only real ability to use Amtarak for more than these (Rail Sale) trips is basically gone.

I am so sorry to hear that they will never be offering anything on e-bay again. I think that is a mistake for them. They have to start somewhere to build up a clientele. Word of mouth and positive experiences would help fund regular priced trips.

 

[WICT106]

I concur with rmadisonwi, the best route for you to take would be the Zephyr from IA to Chicago, then connect with the Capitol Ltd to D.C., and then take #90 (or is it #92 ?) from there to Florida. I suppose you could take the SW Chief if you wanted to, but that's your choice.

 

[haolerider]

Contrary to all the posts and everyone's opinion, I still think it is not ethical to use the discount codes if you are not entitled to them.....even though I agree that the exposure of passengers to Amtrak will help to spread the word.

It may be very simplistic and naive on my part, but I view the fradulent use of the discount codes the same as if I was given too much money at the bank or in change at the supermarket. The ethical thing to do is to return the money and not keep it.........but most people don't see this as stealing - just "taking advantage".

It is the same as employee theft in my opinion and that is certainly not a small item in the economy...........

Probably enough said on this topic......maybe I can find a priest's collar and get a clergy discount somewhere.........

 

[battalion51]

Ummm, is it just me or is this a little out of control? Someone want to put the shackles on this one?

 

[AlanB]

Contrary to all the posts and everyone's opinion, I still think it is not ethical to use the discount codes if you are not entitled to them.....even though I agree that the exposure of passengers to Amtrak will help to spread the word.It may be very simplistic and naive on my part, but I view the fradulent use of the discount codes the same as if I was given too much money at the bank or in change at the supermarket. The ethical thing to do is to return the money and not keep it.........but most people don't see this as stealing - just "taking advantage".

It is the same as employee theft in my opinion and that is certainly not a small item in the economy...........

Probably enough said on this topic......maybe I can find a priest's collar and get a clergy discount somewhere.........

I feel that using a discount code, regardless of how it was obtained, equates far more closely with the following example.

I walk into a retail store today and find a rack with a sale sign on it. I know that the sale ended yesterday, yet I will still expect to receive the sale price, since it is the stores responsability to properly control the sale and its prices. Not only do I expect to get the sale price, but the laws in my State clearly state that I'm entitled to the sale price. Many other States, if not all, have similar laws. This isn't taking advantage, I'm following the letter of the law.

This is not about ethics or fraud, it is Amtrak's or the retailer's responsability to properly control or otherwise verify that I'm entitled to use a discount. It is not my obligation to pay full price because they made a mistake.

Additionally as I've already mentioned, until your post above, I had no idea that those codes were intended for a select group of people. As far as I knew, these were public codes. So it is up to Amtrak to control their proper use. That responsability should not fall to the user of their website.

Let's just suppose for a minute that there was a discount code of H462. Notice that I transposed the last two digits. This fictional discount offers 30% off the ticket price. This would be an honest mistake on my part, yet I got a discount that I wasn't entitled too. That is not the definition of fraud.

Amtrak should have somehow verified that I was entitled to use that code. It's not that hard to write the software to check for things or they could have required picking the tickets up from an agent, instead of a QuikTrac machine. If Amtrak doesn't wish to do that, then IMHO it is their problem not mine.

 

[AlanB]

Ummm, is it just me or is this a little out of control? Someone want to put the shackles on this one?

Actually I think that it is a rather reasonable and polite discussion. Accordingly I won't close this topic, unless others agree. Of course Anthony is always welcome to close it without further discussion.

 

[railman]

Contrary to all the posts and everyone's opinion, I still think it is not ethical to use the discount codes if you are not entitled to them.....even though I agree that the exposure of passengers to Amtrak will help to spread the word.It may be very simplistic and naive on my part, but I view the fradulent use of the discount codes the same as if I was given too much money at the bank or in change at the supermarket. The ethical thing to do is to return the money and not keep it.........but  most people don't see this as stealing - just "taking advantage".

It is the same as employee theft in my opinion and that is certainly not a small item in the economy...........

Probably enough said on this topic......maybe I can find a priest's collar and get a clergy discount somewhere.........

I feel that using a discount code, regardless of how it was obtained, equates far more closely with the following example.

I walk into a retail store today and find a rack with a sale sign on it. I know that the sale ended yesterday, yet I will still expect to receive the sale price, since it is the stores responsability to properly control the sale and its prices. Not only do I expect to get the sale price, but the laws in my State clearly state that I'm entitled to the sale price. Many other States, if not all, have similar laws. This isn't taking advantage, I'm following the letter of the law.

This is not about ethics or fraud, it is Amtrak's or the retailer's responsability to properly control or otherwise verify that I'm entitled to use a discount. It is not my obligation to pay full price because they made a mistake.

Additionally as I've already mentioned, until your post above, I had no idea that those codes were intended for a select group of people. As far as I knew, these were public codes. So it is up to Amtrak to control their proper use. That responsability should not fall to the user of their website.

Let's just suppose for a minute that there was a discount code of H462. Notice that I transposed the last two digits. This fictional discount offers 30% off the ticket price. This would be an honest mistake on my part, yet I got a discount that I wasn't entitled too. That is not the definition of fraud.

Amtrak should have somehow verified that I was entitled to use that code. It's not that hard to write the software to check for things or they could have required picking the tickets up from an agent, instead of a QuikTrac machine. If Amtrak doesn't wish to do that, then IMHO it is their problem not mine.

I find one minor flaw in your logic in that the retail store scenario clearly illustrates that the vendor himself has been lapse in properly managing his advertising and signage.

In the case of the Amtrak discount codes, they have been "mined" by a website that specializes in publishing 'unpublished' discounts. Further, they make little if any effort to convey the complete terms and conditions associated with those discounts.

I do agree that Amtrak should be able to police eligibilty of its discount offers when they themselves are the ones advertising them, but how do you stop someone from misrepresenting their intentions to gain access to this "exclusive" information? For all we know, someone at frommers.com could have signed up as an Amtrak Guest Rewards member for no other purpose than to have Amtrak "give them privately distributed discount codes" then turn around to sound their trumpet on the web.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Amtrak COULD have written it's web site so that before it accepts a discount code, you have to sign in, and it then checks to see if you are a valid member of whatever group is allowed a particular discount. Certainly they COULD have done that. They elected not to. I am sure they are aware of how their system works. Since THEY don't seem too worried about it (otherwise they would have changed it by now), I don't think WE should be either. Let's just get over it and move on.

 

[AlanB]

I find one minor flaw in your logic in that the retail store scenario clearly illustrates that the vendor himself has been lapse in properly managing his advertising and signage.
In the case of the Amtrak discount codes, they have been "mined" by a website that specializes in publishing 'unpublished' discounts. Further, they make little if any effort to convey the complete terms and conditions associated with those discounts.

I do agree that Amtrak should be able to police eligibilty of its discount offers when they themselves are the ones advertising them, but how do you stop someone from misrepresenting their intentions to gain access to this "exclusive" information? For all we know, someone at frommers.com could have signed up as an Amtrak Guest Rewards member for no other purpose than to have Amtrak "give them privately distributed discount codes" then turn around to sound their trumpet on the web.

Railman,

I understand what you're saying, however in my opinion just like that retailer who forgot to take down the sign, I consider Amtrak to be lapse in properly managing the use of the codes.

It's not very hard to set up proper verification procedures. However if Amtrak can program the website to accept my GR number, then they can easily setup a routine that verifies that I was sent the mailer with those codes and therefore entitled to use said codes.

If Amtrak can setup the computer in such a way that I can sign up for double points for riding on Acela, and the computer can then watch for the scans of my used tickets and automatically award those double points, then they can program it for proper use of the codes. As a computer consultant I'm fully aware of what the computer can be tasked to do.

Or if they feel that it is indeed too hard to fix the online ticketing site, then they should simply require such codes as those in question to be used either in person or via telephone agent so that additional verification can be done.

So returning to your last point, if the computer can monitor my Acela double points, then it can easily be asked to remember which members received those codes via a letter for lapsed members. If they properly police the reservation process and verify against that list, then you effectively stop someone from mining those codes. Only a person issued those codes could use them, that includes someone from frommers.com. (Never heard of that site by the way. I found the codes on Flyertalk.com)

But just like that retailer who was lapse in managing his advertising by leaving the sign up, Amtrak IMHO is indeed lapse in their efforts to verify proper use of discount codes.

On a side note, Amtrak doesn't even properly verify AAA numbers. As long as you enter a properly formatted number, with a vaild club code (the first 3 digits), you can pretty much make up the rest of the digits. Hilton on the other hand requires a vaild number. I'm not real sure how Hilton verifies it, but you can just enter random numbers.

 

[railman]

Alan et al,

I do not fault your logic about Amtrak being quite capable of making its website sophisticated enough to properly validate these codes. No excuses - the technology is available. Unfortunately, Amtrak IT development money isn't. Many of the validations you describe are conducted manually by human beings in some office in Illinois, and that is simply a facet of not enough money available to invest in the software development. So Amtrak accpets a certain level of 'revenue dilution' as a factor of putting these discount offers out there.

Sure, you - Mr Discounted Passenger - could be marshalled to a reservations agent or a ticket clerk so that they can eyeball your credentials. That, however, is Amtrak's most costly distribution channel. They are desparate to drive as much business to the lowest-cost channels (i.e., Internet, "Julie" and Quik-Trak). It's really a choice between the lesser of two evils when it comes to cost.

 

[Trogdor]

Not 100% sure about this, but I don't think Amtrak actually runs Amtrak Guest Rewards. I think it's run by another company under contract. If that's true, then that's another "hurdle" in the way of cross-checking eligibility of a promotion like this.

 

[Anthony]

Not 100% sure about this, but I don't think Amtrak actually runs Amtrak Guest Rewards.  I think it's run by another company under contract.  If that's true, then that's another "hurdle" in the way of cross-checking eligibility of a promotion like this.

Looks like Carlson runs it for Amtrak - or at least the web site :lol:

bash-2.05b$ whois amtrakguestrewards.com
...
Registrant:
National Railroad Pasenger Corporation (WN-D-93743164)
  10 G St. N.E
  Washington, DC 20002
  US

  Domain Name: AMTRAKGUESTREWARDS.COM

  Administrative Contact:
     Blumenson, Gail  (19007742I)              [email protected]
     Gail  Blumenson
     10 G St. N.E
     Washington, DC 20002
     US
     202-906-4064 fax: 202-906-4804

  Technical Contact:
     Billing, Hostmaster  (37152384P)          [email protected]
     Carlson
     1405 Xenium Ln
     Plymouth, MN 55441
     US
     763-212-4000 fax: 763-212-1600

  Record expires on 11-Sep-2006.
  Record created on 11-Sep-2000.
  Database last updated on 27-Aug-2004 23:29:50 EDT.

  Domain servers in listed order:

  NS.CARLSON.COM               168.97.99.67
  NS1.USWEST.NET               204.147.80.5
  NS2.DNVR.USWEST.NET          206.196.128.1

bash-2.05b$

 

[AlanB]

Not 100% sure about this, but I don't think Amtrak actually runs Amtrak Guest Rewards. I think it's run by another company under contract. If that's true, then that's another "hurdle" in the way of cross-checking eligibility of a promotion like this.

Well I've never heard that someone other than Amtrak administrates GR. However even if that is true, it still would have no impact on the ability to verify codes. Just like Hilton can report my double dip points to Amtrak, a third party GR administrator could report my elgibility for a discount to Amtrak.

This comes back squarely on Amtrak's shoulders to properly verify. I've no doubt that Railman is correct, in that at least part of the problem is Amtrak's lack of funding to properly program the website. But as a computer expert, I can tell you that it is possible to close this loophole.

 

[sutton8596]

what's to argue about??? Good for Alan for giving the codes. Let more people ride amtrak and maybe we can have viable rail passenger service in this country!