BREAKING NEWS: Wisconsin Purchises Two Talgo Sets

[ALC Rail Writer]

Yeah, good luck finding the track rated for that speed too--

So you're saying that instead we should buy a train set that can only go as fast as the current track allows? So then what when you upgrade the track? Buy new trains?

No.

But buying a train rated for 220mph for the sake of giving a politician a stump speech is a waste of taxpayer money. Ask anybody what it would take to upgrade the rails in WI to get 150mph and the answer is "a lot".

 

[Kramerica]

Yeah, good luck finding the track rated for that speed too--

So you're saying that instead we should buy a train set that can only go as fast as the current track allows? So then what when you upgrade the track? Buy new trains?

No.

But buying a train rated for 220mph for the sake of giving a politician a stump speech is a waste of taxpayer money. Ask anybody what it would take to upgrade the rails in WI to get 150mph and the answer is "a lot".

You won't find much of a bigger opponent of Governor Doyle than me. (the only things I agree with him on are trains and cigarettes) But I have yet to see him or any other politician using the 220 mph top speed as some sort of selling point. None of the articles have mentioned the 220 mph top speed. That number came out from a private email from the newpaper reporter to me. ("Talgo says these trains could handle any speed up to 220 mph") Maybe in the future they will, but at this point there is no reason to suspect that. Not the least of which is that upgrading past 110 mph isn't even in the dreams of realistic rail proponents in Wisconsin, because of the cost.

The bottom line on the 220 mph top speed is that is just what the Talgo comes in standard. That's all.

It is too bad you're bringing up lame and unfounded crap like the top speed issue. That undermines your other good points (the no-bid was bad because of the probable corruption/money-changing-hands) that should be more of a public outcry.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm not stupid. It just proves my point... European trains are designed for European track. If and until US track can be held to the same standard European trains are nothing but flashy.

I can tell you aren't stupid, but I must say that sometimes you can give people the distinct impression that you are- although I'd rate it as more likely just being stubborn and enthusiastic.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm not stupid. It just proves my point... European trains are designed for European track. If and until US track can be held to the same standard European trains are nothing but flashy.

I can tell you aren't stupid, but I must say that sometimes you can give people the distinct impression that you are- although I'd rate it as more likely just being stubborn and enthusiastic.

Well why bother buying trains that can go up to 220mph if you don't even have the motive power (much less the damn track) to achieve 220? I don't care what the hell people say as far as this looking "stupid" because it just proves that people are enamored with things they don't understand. Just wait until people start touting these trains as the future of American HSR. If and when America builds track to reach it we all know that the these sets will be long scrapped.

 

[Kramerica]

Well why bother buying trains that can go up to 220mph if you don't even have the motive power (much less the damn track) to achieve 220? I don't care what the hell people say as far as this looking "stupid" because it just proves that people are enamored with things they don't understand. Just wait until people start touting these trains as the future of American HSR. If and when America builds track to reach it we all know that the these sets will be long scrapped.

The fact the the trains can go 220 mph (vs 110 or 125 or 150) had little, if anything, to do with the purchase. The Talgos were purchased because of the tilting design, the amenities, the 80 assembly jobs, and the likely "perks" Talgo gave to Doyle.

I don't know what the political environment is in the rest of the US, but here in Wisconsin, the general public is mostly just tolerating the 110 mph "high speed" trains. There would be no political advantage to talking about 220 mph trains. It is just so far from reality because of the costs.

I hope we do get to the point where people start touting 220 mph trains as the (near) future for American HSR. But it still won't have anything to do with why Wisconsin bought these Talgo trains.

 

[Neil_M]

I'm not stupid. It just proves my point... European trains are designed for European track. If and until US track can be held to the same standard European trains are nothing but flashy.

I can tell you aren't stupid, but I must say that sometimes you can give people the distinct impression that you are- although I'd rate it as more likely just being stubborn and enthusiastic.

Well why bother buying trains that can go up to 220mph if you don't even have the motive power (much less the damn track) to achieve 220? I don't care what the hell people say as far as this looking "stupid" because it just proves that people are enamored with things they don't understand. Just wait until people start touting these trains as the future of American HSR. If and when America builds track to reach it we all know that the these sets will be long scrapped.

I was only joking about your age first time round, now I am beginning to have second thoughts.

Train builders generally build to an improving standard, Talgos are now good for up to 220mph and I doubt they would build an economy version just for you that does 79mph on dismal track.

Just think of it another way, if you can keep your blinkers off for a minute or two.

Maybe, having trains that can run faster than 79mph might be an incentive to improve the track to take full advantage of the train? Or are you happy having a very poor railway system?

 

[battalion51]

Having a train that can haul cookies is always going to be a positive thing. The Superliners IIRC are good up to 100 MPH, but you can't find anyplace where they run on track that's good for 100 MPH, heck I don't think for any route they run on primarily you can find a place where they run at 90. So even though they are rarely, if ever stretched to their limit, having the capacity there isn't a bad thing. Having the ability to do something is not a bad thing, it allows you flexibility for the future.

As far as not buying the motors to match the set, it's pretty clear why they didn't do that. Under current conditions it's not necessary. Since they're shooting for 110 MPH operation, and that is within the capabilities of a P-42, it doesn't make too much sense to go out and buy these. You would have to buy at least three motors (two for the road, and one for maintenance rotation) plus cab cars to be independent from Amtrak. But with the many moving parts, maintenance, etc. that goes into an engine vs. cars it makes sense to keep using Amtrak's motor power.

 

[jis]

Having a train that can haul cookies is always going to be a positive thing. The Superliners IIRC are good up to 100 MPH, but you can't find anyplace where they run on track that's good for 100 MPH, heck I don't think for any route they run on primarily you can find a place where they run at 90. So even though they are rarely, if ever stretched to their limit, having the capacity there isn't a bad thing.

The Southwest Chief runs at 90mph over considerable distances in New Mexico and Arizona. Have seen so on my GPS just a month back.

Also they do so on the Los Angeles - San Diego corridor too.

 

[MrFSS]

Yep - lot of 90MPH in the southwest. My GPS last year on the SWC.

 

[Chris J.]

Yeah, good luck finding the track rated for that speed too--

So you're saying that instead we should buy a train set that can only go as fast as the current track allows? So then what when you upgrade the track? Buy new trains?

No.

But buying a train rated for 220mph for the sake of giving a politician a stump speech is a waste of taxpayer money. Ask anybody what it would take to upgrade the rails in WI to get 150mph and the answer is "a lot".

I don't think they are buying them because the are 220mph rated, but because they need trains and these are FRA approved and seemingly available. How do the costs of the Talgo sets compare to getting something else, if there is anything else available in the first place?

 

[battalion51]

Having a train that can haul cookies is always going to be a positive thing. The Superliners IIRC are good up to 100 MPH, but you can't find anyplace where they run on track that's good for 100 MPH, heck I don't think for any route they run on primarily you can find a place where they run at 90. So even though they are rarely, if ever stretched to their limit, having the capacity there isn't a bad thing.

The Southwest Chief runs at 90mph over considerable distances in New Mexico and Arizona. Have seen so on my GPS just a month back.

Also they do so on the Los Angeles - San Diego corridor too.

I could've sworn they took out the ATS on the SWC line, I stand corrected. As far as LAX-San Diego goes, that's primarily Surfliners on that route. You'll see an occasional Superliner pinch hitting, but it's not on a daily basis.

 

[jis]

I could've sworn they took out the ATS on the SWC line, I stand corrected. As far as LAX-San Diego goes, that's primarily Surfliners on that route. You'll see an occasional Superliner pinch hitting, but it's not on a daily basis.

The two or 3 days I was there last month during the OTOL SoCal Fest, each Surfliner train that I saw (except the one low level consist with the Superdome in it) had either a straight Superliner or a Superliner rebuilt for California in the consist.

 

[Steve4031]

IIRC the superliner was a coach/baggage car