Business Class Upcharge - Higher for IL Trains?

[rtabern]

On July 8th we are going to be working a private rail excursion on the back of #306 from STL-CHI. Since we live in the Chicagoland area, we have to "dead head" down to STL to meet the excursion group that we will be narrating for going back north. We decided taking the train is probably the best way to get down there (using #303). Anyway, coach for two people is like $48 and change --- business class for two people is $168. WOW!! What is up with that? The last time I remember there maybe was a $30-35 upcharge to go from coach to business class from Chicago to St. Louis -- not $60+/per person. I like business class, but don't think we will pay the extra $120 to do it. Maybe prices will come down a bit or something? The $48 isn't the super low "saver" fare either... just the regular "value" fare.

 

[niemi24s]

According to this... https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418 ...the BC upcharge is added to the Premium coach fare. So in your case, BC essentially adds $64 to the Value fare per person instead of the $21 you'd normally think. Pretty slick, eh? h34r:

 

[SarahZ]

BC between Michigan and Chicago has gotten fairly ridiculous as well. I remember when it was an extra $6-8 (ooooohhhhh). Then it went up to around $20-30 extra, which was still worth it. Now it's about $90-120 per person each way.

Lol, no.

 

[PaulM]

According to this... https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418 ...the BC upcharge is added to the Premium coach fare. So in your case, BC essentially adds $64 to the Value fare per person instead of the $21 you'd normally think. Pretty slick, eh? h34r:

It's semantics, but the $21 is added to the "flexible", not "premium" fare. But you are right. The supplement is $64/person.

 

[rtabern]

I'm wondering if the increases pay for some of the new Metropolitan Lounge costs in Chicago now that you can wait in there if you have Business Class tickets?

I mean if Business Class is only $15-20 more... who would pay $20 for the Legacy Club to get priority boarding? You could just pay the $15-20 for BC and get priority boarding plus your nice first class seat.

I can confirm that after March 1st when the dome car and full dining go away on the Hoosier State -- INDOT is definitely planning to highly play up the perk of being able to wait in the Met Lounge (on their new website) to get people to keep going Business Class. Got a peek at some of their marketing plans post-IPH.

 

[the_traveler]

The BC upcharge is a set amount. (Whatever bucket + $xx) However, it can't be used with Saver fares (I believe). I think that $48 fare may be a Saver fare.

 

[PerRock]

You can still knock it back a little bit by taking advantage of the "seasonal" 20% discount Amtrak runs almost all year: https://www.amtrak.com/travel-to-illinois-and-save-20-percent-this-winter

peter

 

[niemi24s]

The BC upcharge is a set amount. (Whatever bucket + $xx) However, it can't be used with Saver fares (I believe). I think that $48 fare may be a Saver fare.

Not only can it not be used with Saver fares it can't be used with Value fares on this and most other routes. It's added to the Flexible fare according to Amtrak: https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418 So not only is there the BC upcharge there's the fare increase by the mandated Flexible fare.

The bucket structure (assuming there are 5 buckets plus the Saver fare) for this trip is $21 (Saver, estimated), $27 (Value), $39, $43 (estimated), $52 and $70 (Flexible) with a BC upcharge of $21. That $21 BC upcharge is added to the $70 Flexible (high bucket) fare for a total of $91 per person.

A quick look at the AmSnag results might lead the unwary to assume the total BC fare would be the sum of the $27 coach fare shown plus the $21 BC upcharge shown or $48. Not so!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Sarah is,right!

OH for the days riding regularly on the Wolverine between Chicago and Detroit in the nice Leather 2×1 Metroliner seats in Biz Class for the $8-$12 upgrade fee that included a Newspaper,a pastry and free nonalcohol drinks. (it wasn't that long ago, like 2009 when I was still working!The Coach Fare generally was around $18-$21)

 

[PaulM]

Not only can it not be used with Saver fares it can't be used with Value fares on this and most other routes. It's added to the Flexible fare according to Amtrak: https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418 So not only is there the BC upcharge there's the fare increase by the mandated Flexible fare.

The Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg are exceptions to your rule. CHI to QCY It's $22 + the current value fare, if any are left.

 

[niemi24s]

The Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg are exceptions to your rule. CHI to QCY It's $22 + the current value fare, if any are left.

My rule? No, it's an Amtrak rule.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If it's added to only the flexible, explain this:



$27.00 $70.00 $48.00 7:00pm - 12:30am (Mar 14)
5 hr, 30 min
307 Lincoln Service

No Checked Baggage

None Left

1 Reserved Coach Seat

1 Reserved Coach Seat

1 Business Class Seat

 

[niemi24s]

Me explain it? Ask Amtrak to explain it. It's their published rule that nicely explains the seemingly high BC total fare the OP was referring to. My original data was based solely on the OP's stated travel on #303 from CHI to STL on 8 Jul 2017. Your example was for a different date on a different train. Only Amtrak can explain why your example appears to fly in the face of their published rule:

"While booking Business Class on Acela Express, once you begin your reservation, seats can be found in the Saver, Value and Flexible Fare columns on the Fare results page(s).

For all other trains, available Business Class seats will be listed under the Premium fare column on the fare results page(s). If there are multiple Premium fare options offered, simply scroll through to find and select your Business Class seat. Premium seats are fully refundable without a fee if canceled before the scheduled departure."

 

[the_traveler]

That's because on Acela, there is no coach. The lowest "level" of seats on Acela is Business Class, with the premium as First Class. On other trains, there's coach and the premium "level" is business class.

 

[gatelouse]

While the NEC largely prices business class as a fixed upcharge from the current coach fare, Chicago day trains no longer work this way. Business and Coach have been yield-managed separately for over a year now.

In your case, coach seats are available at the lowest (value) fare bucket. Business seats are only available at the highest bucket.

While it's not helpful to the OP, 308 has coach for $27 and business for $48.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Me explain it? Ask Amtrak to explain it. It's their published rule that nicely explains the seemingly high BC total fare the OP was referring to. My original data was based solely on the OP's stated travel on #303 from CHI to STL on 8 Jul 2017. Your example was for a different date on a different train. Only Amtrak can explain why your example appears to fly in the face of their published rule:

"While booking Business Class on Acela Express, once you begin your reservation, seats can be found in the Saver, Value and Flexible Fare columns on the Fare results page(s).

For all other trains, available Business Class seats will be listed under the Premium fare column on the fare results page(s). If there are multiple Premium fare options offered, simply scroll through to find and select your Business Class seat. Premium seats are fully refundable without a fee if canceled before the scheduled departure."

You said, or at least implied, that the BC upcharge is only added to the premium fare. The premium fare is a combination of the the saver/value/flexible (only one of them) and the upcharge. The few that I looked at it looked like the upcharge is added to the lowest available fare. As Dave said, Acela only has BC and FC, so all but the premium fare is BC.

 

[niemi24s]

You said, or at least implied, that the BC upcharge is only added to the premium fare. The premium fare is a combination of the the saver/value/flexible (only one of them) and the upcharge. The few that I looked at it looked like the upcharge is added to the lowest available fare. As Dave said, Acela only has BC and FC, so all but the premium fare is BC.

I only looked at what the OP was referring to, which was this:



And the seemingly high cost of what he found (above) was neatly explained by the Amtrak policy contained in the last two paragraphs of this: https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418which happens to be the following:



What I said back in Post #8 was "That $21 BC upcharge is added to the $70 Flexible (high bucket) fare for a total of $91 per person.", so the Premium fare is the sum of the Flexible fare and the BC upcharge FOR TRAVEL STL-CHI ON #303 ON 8 JULY 2017. My apologies for anything I said which implied something out of the context of the OP's puzzlement - high cost of CHI-STL on #303 on 8 July 2017. No other routes, train or date. All this is factual data and I've no interest in trying to explain any of it. I leave all that to this sites clairvoyant gurus.

 

[PaulM]

... the seemingly high cost of what he found (above) was neatly explained by the Amtrak policy contained in the last two paragraphs of this: https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418which happens to be the following:

BC Policy.jpg

I still don't see where your link or image says anything about how BC fares are calculated.

About all we've learned is that MOST Lincoln Service BC on July 8 is $91 pp, which is $64 added to the coach fare $27, or $21 added to flexible. But BC on #307 on that day is $48, $21 above the coach fare.

Looking for a few days in early April, BC is $48 on all trains.

It seems to go against conventional AU wisdom, but it looks to me like Illinois service BC has "buckets", just like everything else. Normally, Illinois prices start out at low bucket, and increase as departure time approaches if bookings materialize as expected. Perhaps, Illinois has started out doing what Amtrak does with its LD trains, starts out at higher buckets and then decreases if bookings don't materialize..

But my money is on high early bookings due to a Cubs - Cardinals series scheduled for that weekend. :giggle:

 

[niemi24s]

I still don't see where your link or image says anything about how BC fares are calculated.

About all we've learned is that MOST Lincoln Service BC on July 8 is $91 pp, which is $64 added to the coach fare $27, or $21 added to flexible. But BC on #307 on that day is $48, $21 above the coach fare.

Looking for a few days in early April, BC is $48 on all trains.

• Per the upper image and by the relatively simple process of addition, for train #303 on 8 Jul 2017 from CHI to STL the BC Fare = $91 = $70 + $21. That is precisely how the BC fare (note the singular) is calculated for this train from CHI to STL on 8 Jul 2017. Nothing else was stated or implied.

• The fact that the total BC fare differs from $91 on some other train on 8 July 2017 has no bearing on this matter. None. The OP and I were looking only at train #303. No other train.

• The fact that the total BC fare differs from $91 on some other date also has no bearing on this matter. None. The OP and I were looking only at travel on 8 July 2017. No other date.

The BC fare for the OP's ride is $91 simply because it's $91. Why it's $91 is beyond me. I deal with facts and don't speculate.

 

[me_little_me]

According to this... https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1248543011418 ...the BC upcharge is added to the Premium coach fare. So in your case, BC essentially adds $64 to the Value fare per person instead of the $21 you'd normally think. Pretty slick, eh? h34r:

It's semantics, but the $21 is added to the "flexible", not "premium" fare. But you are right. The supplement is $64/person.

Not in my experience on the Carolinian where BC was LOWER than the flexible fare. It sounds more like that BC, like other "premium" fares, is based on buckets for that category only.

 

[Larry H.]

I used to enjoy using Business Class from Southern Il to Chicago. However as the OP mentioned the cost difference from years past has become significant. Again it probably depends on the day you travel. I had to go north to homewood to visit a friend and was shocked to find the fare way higher than ever before. Just like the sleepers you pay way more and get, well, if your lucky you might get a free soda. I find that the constant pushing the limits on rail fares offensive, and frankly I quit riding for the most part. The idea that rail will support its self is obscene to start with. The idea that rail fares should then keep endlessly increasing is also unexceptable. Its rather interesting from a historic point of view that railroads could offer the same service at a fraction of what we pay now, and usually for much worse service and equipment. The idea of saving rail travel for the public has turned out to be a sad state of affairs.

We used to go from ST. Louis to Chicago on the Ann Rutledge, first class parlor car for a few dollars more than coach and had a great car and attendant, with full diner as well, an no microwave food. I wonder how the railroads managed that?

 

[MikefromCrete]

I used to enjoy using Business Class from Southern Il to Chicago. However as the OP mentioned the cost difference from years past has become significant. Again it probably depends on the day you travel. I had to go north to homewood to visit a friend and was shocked to find the fare way higher than ever before. Just like the sleepers you pay way more and get, well, if your lucky you might get a free soda. I find that the constant pushing the limits on rail fares offensive, and frankly I quit riding for the most part. The idea that rail will support its self is obscene to start with. The idea that rail fares should then keep endlessly increasing is also unexceptable. Its rather interesting from a historic point of view that railroads could offer the same service at a fraction of what we pay now, and usually for much worse service and equipment. The idea of saving rail travel for the public has turned out to be a sad state of affairs.

We used to go from ST. Louis to Chicago on the Ann Rutledge, first class parlor car for a few dollars more than coach and had a great car and attendant, with full diner as well, an no microwave food. I wonder how the railroads managed that?

Well, they did lose money on passenger service. That's why we have Amtrak today. And, of course, some of that was before the intestates and jet airplanes.