Cafe, lounge and dining car hours on late trains-Crescent, etc.

[DKpartyguy]

Greetings everyone,

I am in the planning stages of booking a trip from New York City to New Orleans and back on the Crescent, probably sometime in July.

The Crescent has, of course, been running perpetually late into NOL.

My questions are, if the Crescent is running very late, will they keep the cafe and dining car open later than usual?

Does Amtrak have an official policy about extending the hours, or is it up to the crew?

I was on the Maple Leaf from Toronto to New York City recently, and it was running very late. They kept the lounge car open long after the scheduled arrival time, and it seemed the passengers really appreciated it even though they ran out of as lot of food items.

I just wondered if this was standard practice on all late trains.

Thanks in advance.

David

:lol:

 

[GaSteve]

The diner will serve an "express menu" dinner into NOL regardless of the timekeeping.  It is an abbreviation of the regular menu and the last sitting is at 6PM.  The lounge may stay later than usual, but that would be up to the attendant and the available stock of supplies.

 

[tim49424]

The diner will serve an "express menu" dinner into NOL regardless of the timekeeping.  It is an abbreviation of the regular menu and the last sitting is at 6PM.  The lounge may stay later than usual, but that would be up to the attendant and the available stock of supplies.

This actually is not accurate. When I rode the Crescent last month and we were running 6 hours late into New Orleans, we had a full dinner not express. We had a choice of seatings, the last, if I recall was 7:30. There was a full menu available with few exceptions.

 

[GaSteve]

I have never been on a 6 hours late #19.  The latest I experienced was about 3 hours.  Thanks for the update.

 

[pennyk]

Last July, when I rode the Crescent, we were a few hours late and we had an abbreviated menu and 2 choices of seating times (5pm or 6pm).

 

[tim49424]

I have never been on a 6 hours late #19.  The latest I experienced was about 3 hours.  Thanks for the update.

In recent times, 3 hours late would be “early”. Most Crescents have arrived into New Orleans around 4-5 hours late. There was one a couple of days before mine that arrived 10 hours late, around 5:30 AM. I believe the dining staff prepare for such scenarios. I believe the Cafe car on our train was open late too, but I don’t remember exactly when they closed.

 

[bratkinson]

When I last rode the Crescent to NOL in August, we were about 1 hour late and they served an 'express' menu for dinner. 

What surprised me, though, was that at Picayune, scheduled at 1' 50" from NOL, the lounge was closed!  In actuality, though, the actual running time in the opposite direction is scheduled as 1'22".  Although that's still an unreasonably early closing time, it seems to be becoming more and more common on Amtrak.  Customers don't count, I guess.

 

[NativeSon5859]

A few months ago I was on 19 and we arrived NOL at midnight. A full dinner (had a nice steak) was served from approx 530 until 7, and the cafe was open until 10 or so.

 

[Siegmund]

What surprised me, though, was that at Picayune, scheduled at 1' 50" from NOL, the lounge was closed!  In actuality, though, the actual running time in the opposite direction is scheduled as 1'22".  Although that's still an unreasonably early closing time, it seems to be becoming more and more common on Amtrak.  Customers don't count, I guess.

I have no recent experience on the Crescent, but can confirm very early closing times on the Empire Builder. Last call for the diner is when they pass through the Cascade Tunnel, about 6:30AM if they are on time, giving them a solid 3 hours after the last customer is gone before arriving into Seattle. Last call for the lounge  is the Bingen-White Salmon station stop, 2 hours before Portland, and the lounge attendant commented how "they were less uptight on the Portland section" about closing early. 

A mystery to me, since land-based restaurants seem to manage just fine with having the place cleaned and locked up ~1 hour after the last customer is served. 

It does seem like awful customer service. I'd say "and it costs them a thousand dollars a day in diner sales" -- but I suppose what it actually does is saves them several hundred dollars of free meals they'd give away to sleeper customers if they were still serving after people were awake in the morning.

 

[tricia]

When I last rode the Crescent to NOL in August, we were about 1 hour late and they served an 'express' menu for dinner. 

What surprised me, though, was that at Picayune, scheduled at 1' 50" from NOL, the lounge was closed!  In actuality, though, the actual running time in the opposite direction is scheduled as 1'22".  Although that's still an unreasonably early closing time, it seems to be becoming more and more common on Amtrak.  Customers don't count, I guess.

Even more annoying, to me at least: Last time I took the Crescent, both to and from NOL, the northbound diner didn't open for breakfast until past Picayune, around 9AM. That's a long time to keep folks waiting for breakfast, when you've asked them to arrive at the station before 6:30AM.

 

[Rasputin]

On any Amtrak long distance train, it is always wise to carry an ample supply of your own food.  

 

[tricia]

On any Amtrak long distance train, it is always wise to carry an ample supply of your own food.  

In coach, certainly, especially if you're going to be on the train through more than one meal time. But why should sleeper passengers need to do this, when they've already bought tickets that promise meals are included? 

You're right that it's wise to do this, though. Alas.

 

[Rasputin]

In coach, certainly, especially if you're going to be on the train through more than one meal time. But why should sleeper passengers need to do this, when they've already bought tickets that promise meals are included? 

In a perfect world they should not have to.  However Amtrak is far from a perfect world.  If a delay causes an unexpected extra meal, supplies can run low and dining and café employees seem to set their own hours and rules especially when a train is hours late.  I have seen the westbound Empire Builder dining car abruptly close prior to 7:00 a.m. before arriving in Seattle.  Glad we had brought our own pizza leftovers from the night before at Whitefish.

We don't board an Amtrak long distance train without an ample supply of granola bars, pretzels,, etc. so we can deal with any food crisis en route and it appears that this is especially necessary for both coach and sleeper passengers on the Lake Shore and the Capitol due to the present questionable meals.  

 

[DKpartyguy]

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions!

David

 

[bratkinson]

A mystery to me, since land-based restaurants seem to manage just fine with having the place cleaned and locked up ~1 hour after the last customer is served.

55 years ago, working at Burger King, 4 of us got it done in 30 minutes!  Any longer than that, we worked for free.  Pay was a whopping $1.10/hr...about the price of 3 gallons of gas.  Things have changed dramatically since then!

 

[Seaboard92]

How many of those complaining have worked in a dining car. I can think of two of us on this board. And I am one of them.

Let me walk you thru a standard day in the Charter Train Diner and maybe our other diner attendant will chirp in to speak on Amtrak.

Keep in mind most of this example day is in a tight kitchen space that is rocketing along at 79 mph. And is very hot because of the temperatures inside the kitchen.

And also don't forget storage space is limited so one has to engineer a method to store all of your cold items.

Train Boards: 0700
Train Departs: 0830
Crew Size: 5 in the kitchen, 4 servers, 1 LSA

0430: Wake Up
0435: Take a shower and hope someone else isn't showering in the crew dorm.
0445: Get Dressed
0500: Report to the diner
0505: Job Briefing
0515: Take Inventory of ingredients and supplies.
0530-0600: Load supplies from the commissary in this example a truck about twenty feet away in the rain.
0600: start prepping the kitchen.
0610: Assemble Box Lunches for Tour Groups
0610: Start Prepping Breakfast for 700 first class passengers.
0630: servers prepare the dining room
0700: Boarding Begins
0710: Take Inventory of ingredients and supplies
0730: Requisition more supplies
0745: The first hot meals are put into insulated carrying cases to be dispersed to first class cars.
0810: Breakfast for all cars being sent to other cars is completed.
0810: Kitchen crew gets lucky and gets a break on the platform next to the car while boarding continues.
0830: Train departs
0840: Car Attendants bring an updated manifest to reflect no shows, seat shuffles. Car attendants also pick up there breakfasts.
0845: First Breakfast Service in our diner. Kitchen handles the plating.
0855: Start counting items for our next service at dinner. Cheesecakes only
0945: Servers clean and reset dining room.
1000: Second Breakfast Service kitchen handles plating.
1000: Prime Rib placed in the oven to slow cook
1000: Dinner sides are prepared and as soon as ready placed in hot boxes.
1015: Counting ingredients for dinner salads and rolls.
1045: Servers begin cleaning the dining room.
1100: Food service crew eats leftovers in the dining room.
1130: Deadline for the kitchen being clean.
1130: boxed lunches depart for the tour groups in the coaches fifteen cars away.
1140: Prep kitchen for dinner by setting pots, pans, and items out.
1145: Arrive at the turn around point.
1150: Car Attendant lunches are loaded into the kitchens.
1155: Kitchen crew goes on break till 1410. Either you can stay on the train or go into the city. Most of us were ready to leave the confines of the train.
1410: Report back to the diner but can't access it because the run around was delayed.
1430: Boarding Begins and crew is allowed back on board.
1430: start preparing dinner to be sent out to cars. Servers set tables
1515: First car attendants come to pick up dinner items.
1530: train departs
1600: All items must be out to the cars eating in their seats.
1630: First formal service in the diner.
1745: Servers reset Diners.
1800: Second Dinner service.
1830: Start cleaning the kitchen
1830: Inventory started for the next day's run.
1915: Crew dinner plates by the kitchen crew. Kitchen crew is allowed to eat leftovers standing in the kitchen.
1930: Leftovers from the cars start arriving back in the kitchen
2000: Kitchen must be clean by
2000: First spot for passengers unloading which is not in the area allowed for off loading of trash. The bag at this point is large and in the way. Kitchen crew gets a break for a few minutes.
2000: servers clean the dining room
2015: Second and final spot for passengers to be unloaded.
2015: Bags of trash are thrown off and carried to a large dumpster next to the commissary.
2030: Restocking the cars
2100: If the work is done crew is allowed to go off duty.
Total work hours: 13 Hours

Now the afternoon of the final run is significantly different.

1830: Second Dinner Service
1830: Plate items in the kitchen and clean the kitchen.
1900: Dinner service is done
1900: Start organizing all of the kitchen supplies, and supplies for the Diners into various storage locations in the various dining cars.
1900: Crew dinner
1945: Deadline for all supplies to be moved to the appropriate storage location for unloading.
2000: First Spot for unloading passengers.
2015: Second and final spot for unloading.
2015: Trash bags thrown off the side of the train and walked to a full dumpster nearby.
2030: Local food pantry arrives to take the excess supplies.
2030: Unloading of supplies to food pantry. One person unloads the fridges, hands it to the door person. Who tosses it to a person on the ground, who passes it to the person loading the truck. Done for two Diners
2100: Start unloading the non food supplies from the diners and placing them in a truck to drive them down the platform to the storage trailer.
2105: Truck is full so supplies are set on the ballast alongside the cars, and service road.
2230: the last of the supplies is put in a truck.
2300: Supplies are properly loaded into the storage trailer.
2315: Car is locked, and crew goes off duty.
Total worked hours: 16 hours

Attached are some photos to give you an idea of the working conditions.


One of the short five minute breaks off the train.


A very tight and cramped working space.


What some of the crew do on their break time. It's an exhausting job.


This is just a small amount of the supplies we off loaded. Stacked all over the area.


Now do you guys understand the jobs of people in food service on a train?

 

[Seaboard92]

And if you want to see a service manual. Here is the VIA Rail Dining car service standards for the Canadian.

http://railroadarchives.org/content/section-1-silver-blue-meal

Skyline cars
http://railroadarchives.org/content/section-5-activity-car