Canadian border crossing requirements, procedures and experiences on Amtrak

[jiml]

Just to further complicate matters Canada today extended incoming travel measures, including the ArriveCan nonsense, to September 30:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/ne...for-incoming-travellers/ar-AAZ0RiT?li=AAggNb9

 

[zephyr17]

Just to further complicate matters Canada today extended incoming travel measures, including the ArriveCan nonsense, to September 30:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/ne...for-incoming-travellers/ar-AAZ0RiT?li=AAggNb9

I don't mind ArriveCan so much, been up three times on it. It is easy enough, my "I" comes through within minutes and my personal info and vax card are preloaded and permanently in there so completing it quite quick and easy. What bugs me is the random arrival testing. I still plan to do a personal pre arrival test myself so I'll minimize the chances of walking into a quarantine trap.

I'll start by getting a PCR test a couple of weeks before on the off chance of getting another "Golden Ticket" positive PCR test from an asymptomatic infection. That exempts you from random testing from 11 to 180 days from date of the PCR test administration. If I don't get another Golden Ticket PCR result, I'll do an antigen just before I go.

 

[jiml]

We were in Buffalo last week and they never asked about it when returning FWIW. Random testing is scheduled to return mid-July according to tonight's news.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just to further complicate matters Canada today extended incoming travel measures, including the ArriveCan nonsense, to September 30:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/ne...for-incoming-travellers/ar-AAZ0RiT?li=AAggNb9

Is this for COVID or Monkey Pox, both of which are increasing in the US???

 

[Steve Manfred]

I don't mind ArriveCan so much, been up three times on it. It is easy enough, my "I" comes through within minutes and my personal info and vax card are preloaded and permanently in there so completing it quite quick and easy. What bugs me is the random arrival testing. I still plan to do a personal pre arrival test myself so I'll minimize the chances of walking into a quarantine trap.

I'll start by getting a PCR test a couple of weeks before on the off chance of getting another "Golden Ticket" positive PCR test from an asymptomatic infection. That exempts you from random testing from 11 to 180 days from date of the PCR test administration. If I don't get another Golden Ticket PCR result, I'll do an antigen just before I go.

If someone turns up at a land border for a short trip and is told to do the random arrival testing, can you instead turn around and go back home right away instead of taking that test, or are you committed at that point? Obviously this would be tougher on a train, but what if you're trying to drive in by yourself in your own car?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If someone turns up at a land border for a short trip and is told to do the random arrival testing, can you instead turn around and go back home right away instead of taking that test, or are you committed at that point? Obviously this would be tougher on a train, but what if you're trying to drive in by yourself in your own car?

I would not expect such an option to be offered freely, and if you were to create an incident that resulted in your return to the preceding country then all future attempts will be highly scrutinized, to the point that you may need an unusually compelling argument to gain future entry.

 

[zephyr17]

If someone turns up at a land border for a short trip and is told to do the random arrival testing, can you instead turn around and go back home right away instead of taking that test, or are you committed at that point? Obviously this would be tougher on a train, but what if you're trying to drive in by yourself in your own car?

Since the determination to test is made during primary inspection, you have the option to "withdraw your application to enter" and return to the US. They won't tell you that, you have to tell them that is what you want to do when they tell you that you've been selected for testing. You'll be given paperwork to show to US CBP. You'll have to go through US inspection and, since turning around is generally treated as suspicious, you will likely be subjected to secondary inspection by US CBP, although it should not affect any future trips.

It is straightforward when driving yourself, much less so on the train. You'd be treated the same way as someone involuntarily refused entry, though without a black mark. On the Maple Leaf, the station is right by the bridge, so it is possible they'd drive you back across the Whirlpool Bridge or down to the Rainbow Bridge (pedestrians aren't allowed on the Whirlpool). On the Cascades you are already like 30 miles inside Canada at Pacific Central Station, so just going back over the border isn't an option, you'd likely be detained for the next transport back, luckily there are bus departures they could put you on so you wouldn't spend overnight in a cell (there is a reasonable chance they'd "parole" you and you'd be able to stay in a hotel, in that case). I don't know what they'd do in the case of the Adirondack, since the inspection is onboard, probably take you off and take you back to the Port of Entry they work out of and either hold you for return transport or kick you back to the US there

That's why I intend to take a test before any future trips, so if they do test me, I'll likely come up negative.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You'll have to go through US inspection and, since turning around is generally treated as suspicious, you will likely be subjected to secondary inspection by US CBP, although it should not affect any future trips.

I'm in relative agreement with most of what you said except this part. Watch any border television show and you'll see people who were previously denied or reversed course suffer a presumption of inadmissibility on subsequent visits. Similar complaints can be found on international travel forums. The CBSA seems more lenient and understanding with visitors from neighboring states but I would not expect a favorable outcome for people from other areas.

 

[Amtrak25]

Would a Medicare Advantage health insurer cover a PCR test ?

 

[zephyr17]

I'm in relative agreement with most of what you said except this part. Watch any border television show and you'll see people who were previously denied or reversed course suffer a presumption of inadmissibility on subsequent visits. Similar complaints can be found on international travel forums. The CBSA seems more lenient and understanding with visitors from neighboring states but I would not expect a favorable outcome for people from other areas.

I don't think there would be much of a problem with CBSA in deciding to turn around to avoid testing. They'll very likely just politely give you the paperwork showing why you weren't admitted to Canada (voluntary) and watch to make sure you use the turnaround lane.

It's US CBP that'll get suspicious. They are generally suspicious of turnarounds (why the cold feet, bub?) so the chances of getting pulled into secondary are higher, though if CBSA shows the reason as declining arrival test they might relax. But CBP also might see it as a nice opportunity for a warrantless search in secondary.

As a resident of a neighboring state and frequent border crosser, I actually think CBP would be more suspicious of a local turning around, since a local would be presumed to know more about the ins and outs of crossing.

 

[zephyr17]

Would a Medicare Advantage health insurer cover a PCR test ?

Almost no health insurer would cover a PCR test for travel purposes, since it is not medically necessary. That includes all variations of Medicare.

I worked in IT for a Blue Cross plan for 28 1/2 years that offered Medicare Advantage (aka Medicare Part C). Medically necessary testing would of course be covered per CMS rules. Travel testing might be offered by the MA carrier as one of their MA perks above and beyond traditional Medicare (like vision, dental or even gym membership), but likely not.

I am lucky in that my county health department currently offers free PCR testing for anyone who walks up, though I am not sure how long that will last now. Last January during the initial omicron surge they limited it to only those exposed or symptomatic. For my January trip, I went to a travel testing outfit and paid $150 for my then-required PCR pre-arrival test (which came back positive, much to my surprise, and caused me to have to postpone that trip). The travel test prices ranged up to $400, I chose the cheapest offered in my area.

 

[thully]

If someone turns up at a land border for a short trip and is told to do the random arrival testing, can you instead turn around and go back home right away instead of taking that test, or are you committed at that point? Obviously this would be tougher on a train, but what if you're trying to drive in by yourself in your own car?

From what I’ve heard, the random arrival tests at land borders are PCR self-test kits that you do on your own and then send via a shipping service within 24 hours of arrival in Canada. As such, the results will necessarily take a few days to come back (CBSA says it should be 5-7 days). If you aren’t staying overnight they may not make you do the test, and if you’re not staying too long it is unlikely to come back before your return trip. Obviously it could come back positive after that time (resulting in quarantine lasting until 10 days after the test was taken) - you could perhaps drive back to the US if you went by car, though if you took a train/bus/plane/ferry you’d be stuck for the duration.

 

[Amtrak25]

All the stress of that and blow $150 on a PCR test, even then no guarantee you won't test positive at the border, I hope that is over by summer 2023, because I just won't bother - not worth it for vacation.

 

[zephyr17]

All the stress of that and blow $150 on a PCR test, even then no guarantee you won't test positive at the border, I hope that is over by summer 2023, because I just won't bother - not worth it for vacation.

Let me clarify what I am doing and why.

I intend to get a PCR test two weeks before my next trip in late October in hopes it comes back positive. That is because a positive PCR test exempts you from random arrival testing from 10 to 180 days after the test was administered. I have two more trips planned to Canada planned after the November one and it would be nice to have another "Golden Ticket" positive PCR test so as not to have to worry about arrival testing for any of them.

Hopefully, my county health department is still offering free PCR testing by then.

If the PCR test turns out negative, I intend to take one of my free home antigen tests just before I go so I can be reasonably certain that, if I am selected for random arrival testing, it will be negative.

If you just want to check if you are negative before you go in case you are selected for testing, there is no need to go to the trouble and possible expense of a PCR test. A free self administered antigen test would do fine, since Canada is no longer requiring a pre-arrival PCR test within 72 hours as they did until March.

As to deciding to wait it out until Canada drops its random arrival testing, that is perfectly reasonable. The possibility of a positive arrival test and quarantine is a pretty big risk factor for upsetting travel plans. However, personally, I like the VIA's Canadian and skiing in BC too much to forgo Canada now that the border is open. But I plan to mitigate the risk as best I can.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Let me clarify what I am doing and why.

I intend to get a PCR test two weeks before my next trip in late October in hopes it comes back positive. That is because a positive PCR test exempts you from random arrival testing from 10 to 180 days after the test was administered. I have two more trips planned to Canada planned after the November one and it would be nice to have another "Golden Ticket" positive PCR test so as not to have to worry about arrival testing for any of them.

Hopefully, my county health department is still offering free PCR testing by then.

If the PCR test turns out negative, I intend to take one of my free home antigen tests just before I go so I can be reasonably certain that, if I am selected for random arrival testing, it will be negative.

If you just want to check if you are negative before you go in case you are selected for testing, there is no need to go to the trouble and possible expense of a PCR test. A free self administered antigen test would do fine, since Canada is no longer requiring a pre-arrival PCR test within 72 hours as they did until March.

As to deciding to wait it out until Canada drops its random arrival testing, that is perfectly reasonable. The possibility of a positive arrival test and quarantine is a pretty big risk factor for upsetting travel plans. However, personally, I like the VIA's Canadian and skiing in BC too much to forgo Canada now that the border is open. But I plan to mitigate the risk as best I can.

Things are getting crazy again in the NE as BA5 spreads rapidly.New York City is reinstating the Mask Mandate for indoors and Public Transportation, and a Canadian friend told me that the Canadian Government did NOT deny that reinstating COVID Mandates is under consideration!

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

Things are getting crazy again in the NE as BA5 spreads rapidly.New York City is reinstating the Mask Mandate for indoors and Public Transportation, and a Canadian friend told me that the Canadian Government did NOT deny that reinstating COVID Mandates is under consideration!

A Canadian lawyer I've been following on YouTube (Viva Frei) has reported that the Canadian government would also like to redefine "fully immunized against COVID" in a more flexible manner, so that it would include not only the initial shot/set of shots, but however many boosters they deem to be required at any given time -- which number could conceivably increase between one's entry to Canada and exit from Canada.

 

[jiml]

A Canadian lawyer I've been following on YouTube (Viva Frei) has reported that the Canadian government would also like to redefine "fully immunized against COVID" in a more flexible manner, so that it would include not only the initial shot/set of shots, but however many boosters they deem to be required at any given time -- which number could conceivably increase between one's entry to Canada and exit from Canada.

The Minister of Health said basically that in a recent speech, suggesting the booster shots will be required by the federal government every 9 months starting in the Fall in addition to other "measures" and potential restrictions should cases increase. They also extended the ArriveCan app indefinitely. Travel here is chaos at the moment, despite the temporary suspension of random testing at airports. (It is still in effect for land crossings.)

 

[Exvalley]

If you aren’t staying overnight they may not make you do the test, and if you’re not staying too long it is unlikely to come back before your return trip.

I can assure you that they do not care how long you are staying in Canada. I was required to PCR test even though I was only going to Canada for a few hours. The bureaucracy is not flexible. If you are randomly flagged for testing you must test. Fortunately, in my case, the testing was done right at the border in a drive-through tent. There would have been some logistical problems if I was given a take-with-you test kit.

The other frustrating issue for those of us who remain in Canada for just a few hours is that we still have to identify a quarantine location. I just pick a random hotel and have never had an issue. The last hotel I picked was a boutique inn on a lake that surely had no vacancy, but nobody batted an eye.

Once you have uploaded your information, the ArriveCan app works quite easily. This past Saturday we decided on the spur of the moment to go to Canada. It took just a couple of minutes with the app and the actual crossing was no different than pre-Covid times.

 

[MARC Rider]

The other frustrating issue for those of us who remain in Canada for just a few hours is that we still have to identify a quarantine location. I just pick a random hotel and have never had an issue. The last hotel I picked was a boutique inn on a lake that surely had no vacancy, but nobody batted an eye.

If you're only going for a few hours, and you're a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident, couldn't you list your home in the US as the quarantine location?

 

[Exvalley]

If you're only going for a few hours, and you're a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident, couldn't you list your home in the US as the quarantine location?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Bob Dylan]

If you're only going for a few hours, and you're a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident, couldn't you list your home in the US as the quarantine location?

See the above post that includes the words "..the bureaucracy is not flexible.."You do have to give an address in Canada.

Fortunately for me when I visit my family and friends in the Toronto area I'll have a Free Place to stay.

 

[thully]

You just have to list the address you’re going to in Canada, and it doesn’t have to be a house or any kind of lodging. There’s no need for a quarantine plan anymore if you’re fully vaccinated. So if you’re going for the day, just list the address you expect to be at most of the time…

 

[MARC Rider]

See the above post that includes the words "..the bureaucracy is not flexible.."You do have to give an address in Canada.

Fortunately for me when I visit my family and friends in the Toronto area I'll have a Free Place to stay.

Yeah, talk about inflexible bureaucracy. You get tested and give them a quarantine location, say the Chateau Frontenac in Quebec with no intention of ever actually staying there because you're only in the country for a day. Then you go home at the end of the day. Then your test is positive. What does the Canadian government do then? Do they send the Health Mounties to the Chateau Frontenac to see if you are quarantining there? I suppose they send you a text or something with the results, but what if you don't have a cellphone or text message service? Meanwhile, you're back in the US with Covid, unknowingly spreading it far and wide, especially if they can't get hold of you to give you the test results.

Seems like it's more like health security theater than anything really useful. A mask mandate and vaccination requirement would probably be more useful. If they were really serious they'd test everyone and hold them at the border in a quarantine facility until the test results came back. Come to think of it, they could make the quarantine facility really nice and have it be part of the Canadian travel experience. Serve Canadian craft beers, poutine, Tim Horton's, etc. while people wait. And have a luxury resort where people who test positive can stay for the required 10 days.

 

[zephyr17]

Um, Canada dropped the requirement to enter a quarantine plan on ArriveCan on April 25th for the fully vaccinated.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Um, Canada dropped the requirement to enter a quarantine plan on ArriveCan on April 25th for the fully vaccinated.

But it may come back, I think it was just suspended.