Canadian "Buffer Cars" discussion

[PaTrainFan]

I had been firing myself up for a possible end to end trip on The Canadian in 2023, but this situation has me deflated. The experience will be appreciably diminished with a clunky additional car on the end of the obervation car.

 

[MARC Rider]

If they put a flatcar at the end of the train after the observation car, would that (1) preserve at least some of the views from the rear of the observation car, and (2) be a suitable buffer car?

 

[GDRRiley]

If they put a flatcar at the end of the train after the observation car, would that (1) preserve at least some of the views from the rear of the observation car, and (2) be a suitable buffer car?

a flatbed isn't going to fix the issue, they could maybe use a loaded gondola as a buffer at the end of the train

 

[PeeweeTM]

a flatbed isn't going to fix the issue, they could maybe use a loaded gondola as a buffer at the end of the train

Or an excess height box car with two big TV screens pointing at the passengers, connected to two cameras pointing at the tracks...

I think, that gondola car idea would be nice.

 

[jiml]

The mainstream media is starting to take notice:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...c=EUPP_&cvid=d05d2e341b234ec0bcbc728101908883

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

A buffer car at the end is a bit of a overreaction. I get the one up front. Your more than likely to hit something with the engine, then get ram from the rear. Yes it does happen, but the locomotives hitting a vehicle is a much more likely event.

 

[Brian Battuello]

And I was finally starting to get my spouse interested in a mid-winter Canadian run. Would be my third and probably last goodbye to the dome cars. Has been a good run.

 

[Trogdor]

A buffer car at the end is a bit of a overreaction. I get the one up front. Your more than likely to hit something with the engine, then get ram from the rear. Yes it does happen, but the locomotives hitting a vehicle is a much more likely event.

I wouldn’t think a buffer car would be needed for road collisions, given that it would be the lead locomotive that would take the brunt of the damage. Instead, a rear-ender collision would (in theory) be equally likely if it were the VIA train doing the hitting or doing the being hit.

 

[zephyr17]

It's for train on train collisions, like the Edson wreck back in the 80s.

My opinion is it is an example of vast bureaucratic overreaction to a truly minimal threat.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I hope it’s a overreaction. Otherwise VIA needs to borrow some of Amtrak equipment soon.

 

[zephyr17]

A post I read in FB referred to them a "bumper cars". A poster known to be a VIA associate corrected them to "buffer".

Personally, I like it. Let's make "bumper cars" happen, shall we?

 

[Ryan]

Buffet cars? I could eat, sounds delicious!

 

[zephyr17]

The initial engineering evaluations are in. A Canadian blogger did the equivalent of an FOIA request to get them and posted a summary of them. The blogger says it is a bit too early to tell if and when it will result in the buffer cars being removed, but he sounds optimistic.

One piece of very good news is the cars passed the compression tests with flying colors. There are other issues, though, and I don’t have the background to even begin to assess how serious they are.

Here it is, I understand some of it, but far from all of it:

http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2023/04/testing-vias-hep-fleet-results-are-in.html?m=1

 

[railiner]

Interesting report. One thing I learned from it, was that the Budd built cars were not 100% Stainless Steel, as I had always thought they were, but in fact also contained some Carbon Steel in certain structural elements.

 

[Anderson]

The initial engineering evaluations are in. A Canadian blogger did the equivalent of an FOIA request to get them and posted a summary of them. The blogger says it is a bit too early to tell if and when it will result in the buffer cars being removed, but he sounds optimistic.

One piece of very good news is the cars passed the compression tests with flying colors. There are other issues, though, and I don’t have the background to even begin to assess how serious they are.

Here it is, I understand some of it, but far from all of it:

http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2023/04/testing-vias-hep-fleet-results-are-in.html?m=1

I feel like I want to wish something unpleasant on whatever "fine person" started this mess. Maybe sugar ants in their shirt while camping?

 

[zephyr17]

I feel like I want to wish something unpleasant on whatever "fine person" started this mess. Maybe sugar ants in their shirt while camping?

In another post in the same blog(VIA's Diners - Refurbished!), the blogger said the issues that kicked all this off were discovered during diner rebuilds:

"It was during the refurbishing of Annapolis in 2018 that structural integrity issues were first detected that would result in emergency inspection, some structural repair, and eventually imposition of a ministerial order and implementation of buffer cars on HEP consists in October, 2022. The repair costs due to corrosion exceeded the budgeted costs, so the contract requirements likely had to be revised for the remaining cars."

They completed the rebuild, despite the issues, and the car is now in service, so there's that

 

[OBS]

Saw reports on Facebook today that the Buffer cars are being removed as of May 18 I think (or June 18). The final reports stated the cars are capable of withstanding the challenges they were concerned about.

 

[zephyr17]

Saw reports on Facebook today that the Buffer cars are being removed as of May 18 I think (or June 18). The final reports stated the cars are capable of withstanding the challenges they were concerned about.

I saw that on the FB VIA 1 & 2 "The Canadian" group. The reporting there is that an email was sent to all VIA employees that they're coming off starting May 18th.

So we'll know soon. If true, the first Canadian without one will be Friday's 2 out of Vancouver. I am also a member of the FB RailsBC group which has a bunch of dedicated railfan photographers, so I think a picture of it is likely to turn up there.

 

[joelkfla]

I saw that on the FB VIA 1 & 2 "The Canadian" group. The reporting there is that an email was sent to all VIA employees that they're coming off starting May 18th.

So we'll know soon. If true, the first Canadian without one will be Friday's 2 out of Vancouver. I am also a member of the FB RailsBC group which has a bunch of dedicated railfan photographers, so I think a picture of it is likely to turn up there.

Will they store them in Vancouver, or do they need to deadhead to Toronto?

 

[zephyr17]

Will they store them in Vancouver, or do they need to deadhead to Toronto?

Vancouver is the maintenance base for the Canadian and makes up the consists.

I imagine any Manors used as buffer cars on VIA's Corridor trains and elsewhere will have to be deadheaded to Vancouver for any work they might need to get them back into revenue service as well as to just get them back into the Canadian's equipment pool.

 

[TheMalahat]

I did not realize that the RDCs at White River were also effected, and that the trains there had been on a significantly diminished capacity as a result. This change will be be most positively felt there, I suspect, as for the other trains it was merely an aesthetic concern, and I suppose some baggage limitations as well.

 

[jiml]

I did not realize that the RDCs at White River were also effected, and that the trains there had been on a significantly diminished capacity as a result. This change will be be most positively felt there, I suspect, as for the other trains it was merely an aesthetic concern, and I suppose some baggage limitations as well.

Where did you see that and how did it work, unless substituting a loco-hauled consist? The buffer requirement was an empty car ahead of those occupied (usually a baggage car) and one behind (an unoccupied coach, sleeper or baggage car). Living on the corridor I've seen plenty of ad-hoc additions but puzzled by how this was done with RDC's.

 

[Urban Sky]

Where did you see that and how did it work, unless substituting a loco-hauled consist? The buffer requirement was an empty car ahead of those occupied (usually a baggage car) and one behind (an unoccupied coach, sleeper or baggage car). Living on the corridor I've seen plenty of ad-hoc additions but puzzled by how this was done with RDC's.

They had to run the RDCs in triples, as passengers would only be allowed on the middle RDC…

 

[zephyr17]

They had to run the RDCs in triples, as passengers would only be allowed on the middle RDC…

Guess it was lucky in some perverse way that all their RDC runs except Sudbury-White River had been dropped.

 

[Willbridge]

It's for train on train collisions, like the Edson wreck back in the 80s.

My opinion is it is an example of vast bureaucratic overreaction to a truly minimal threat.

But wasn't the Hinton wreck head-on? I can't recall an Amtrak or VIA accident where a buffer car on the rear would have made a difference.