Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014

[Richard McCormick]

I may have to modify my original plans and avoid both the CL and LSL routes entirely. Seems like the 19 Crescent to NOL has much better on time record. This would require an overnight stay in NOL(never a bad thing!) and then catch 1 SL leaving 9:00 A.M. next morning to TUS. This route would also prevent me from being on sleeper that would have to be cut away from TE and coupled onto the SL consist at SAS in the wee hours of the morning.. Anybody with any better suggestions or ideas I am open to any and all of them.

Things should be better by October between WAS, NYP and CHI! The plan to ride the Crescent to NOL is a good one as you say, but of course you have to stay on your dime in NOL!
The LSL and Cap Connections in CHI are guaranteed so Amtrak would be responsible for getting you to TUS, if you missed the 421 they may even put you on the SWC to LAX, then #2 to TUS if it was on a day #2 was scheduled to operate!

You may want to look @ the Cardinal #51 ( 3days a week also) if it gets to CHI on a #421 day, its OTP had been much better into CHI than #29 or #49/#449!

Looking at the Cardinal route map it appears that it's more southerly route seems to spare it from the freight traffic nightmare that seems to exist in the CLE-SOB corridor and which plagues both the 29 CL and 49 LSL on a daily basis.That route which takes it up through Cincinnati/Indianapolis to CHI has certainly had a much better OTP than either 29/CL or 49/LSL. For period from 8/5-9/1 the 51 Cardinal has averaged 82 minutes delays compared to 29/CL with 152 minutes and 49/LSL with a whopping 221 minutes.The largest delay for 29 was 383 minutes on 8/27 and for 49 it was a whopping 529 minutes on 8/22;both trains missed connection with both TE and SWC on those days leaving passengers bound for West coast stranded in CHI with no alternatives until the next day's trains. As you said, things may improve by late October but I need to make reservation now. The 51/ Cardinal works for my schedule as it leaves NYP on Friday 6:45 A.M. arriving CHI 10 A.M on Saturday.With 59/CONO not departing CHI until 8:05 P.M. it gives me some time for a quick tour around CHI before heading down to NOL. 59/CONO arrives NOL 3:32 P.M. giving me time to settle into my overnight hotel.Haven't been to NOL since the summer just before Katrina so it should be interesting to see how much has been done to rebuild NOL in the last decade or so. Looking forward to some chicory coffee and beignets at Cafe Du Monde and a dinner of crawfish with red beans and rice and maybe some good Jazz before hitting the sack for the night. Finally, head over to Union Station to catch 1/SL departing 9:00 A.M. Monday morning for my final destination Tucson/AZ arriving 6:45 P.M. Tuesday night. With 10 hour daytime layover in CHI and overnight stay in NOL this trip may seem a bit long but now being retired I have all the time that I need.

I have only one concern with this route that I am considering.The 51/ Cardinal is sold out of all sleeping accommodations,including roomettes,most likely due to it's limited service 3 day/week schedule.That means the entire 28 hour trip has to be done in coach class. I am not sure how well I will be able to handle sleeping in a reclining seat as opposed to a roomette.Since 51/Cardinal departs NYP it can't use Superliner coaches which I understand to be much more comfortable than the older Amfleet II coaches used on 51/Cardinal as well as 49/LSL.Also, many other forum posts have discussed poor restroom conditions on Amfleet coaches (I believe 2/coach car for approx 60 people) vs. Superliner coaches( 4-5/coach car for about 74 people).It would seem to me that the Superliner coaches,with a much better ratio of restrooms to total people and slightly roomier seats would have an advantage over the older Amfleet coaches.Of course,wanting to travel on a Superliner coach would mean having to forgo both the 51/Cardinal and/or 49 LSL in favor of 29 CL. Would appreciate any insight or feedback on either of these concerns before I finalize travel plans.Also, thanks for reading my rather lengthy post.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Of course riding in Coach on an overnite LD trip is never as good as a Room! Since the Card's Rooms are Sold Out I'd look @ the Crescent #19 to NOL as you said!( you can check daily on Cancelations by using amsnag.net and if a Room opens up in the Card you can change your rez but traditionally the Card is High Bucket!)

But wanting to be in Superliner and have a Roomette I'd say the Cap #29 from WAS- CHI should work out by Oct even in Coach.,( traditionally the Cap has had good OTP except when trackwork or weather happens!)

As was said, these are guaranteed connections so Amtrak will get you to TUS by hook or crook!

 

[Richard McCormick]

First of all,let me say thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy post and offering your valuable insight. Since the Card is,as you said,High Bucket even when rooms are available($520 for a roomette) it looks like my options are down to two choices. The 29/CL( hoping for better OTP late October) or the 19/Crescent. Opting for the Crescent eliminates the CHI leg of the trip with its 10+ hour daytime layover( which I was going to use for a quick tour of the Windy City) in favor of a more direct route from NYP to NOL with no transfers or layovers. it also cuts an entire day of travel time from the schedule as it leaves from NYP on Saturday @ 2:15 P.M. arriving NOL Sunday night at 7:32 P.M. The 29/CL first requires a late Friday morning departure on NE Regional to WAS before boarding 29/CL departing @ 4:05 P.M. and arriving CHi at 8:45 A.M. with daytime layover in CHI until 59/CONO boards Saturday night @ 8:05 P.M. with Sunday afternoon arrival in NOL at 3;32 P.M. Tough choice to make as I like the direct trip on 19/Crescent and the 1 day travel savings it provides I might just prefer the 29/CL-59/CONO combo since it allows me a chance to see some of CHI( never been there before) during daytime layover.Plus the 19/Crescent sleeper is also High Bucket that night($498) while sleepers in both 29/CL and 59/CONO combined would be only $352 total for both trains( 158 for 29/CL and 194 for 59/CONO).

Thanks again for your advice and i will post my experience on this trip when I get back in early November.

 

[Bob Dylan]

That's a good price for the #29/#59 Combo Trip in a Roomete! Look forward to your trip report and I'm envious, NOL is a great layover spot!

 

[afigg]

Over the past several days, the delays between CHI and CLE for the CL and LSL have not been as bad. There have been delays, but on the order of less than an hour added going between CHI and CLE on NS. Perhaps some of the track work has been completed? Or just luck of the draw in getting pass freight traffic?

 

[neroden]

I'm guessing the NS track work is starting to wrap up. They wouldn't have scheduled trackwork too late in the year. Here in the north, we get freezing weather, and before that, we get leaves, and before that, we get torrential rain and mud, none of which are good conditions to lay track in. I'm not sure exactly what their cut-off date for planned work is, but I'd expect them to be finished with major work by the end of September, because working conditions will suck worse and worse from then on.

 

[afigg]

Wrote too soon. Both the CL and LSL encountered major delays last night and into today. The pattern the past few days was that the eastbound CL and LSL in the evening were not too badly delayed, but the westbound CL and LSL going from CLE to CHI in the morning got hit with hours of delay. The CL has also been encountering long delays between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA which is likely due to the CSX tunnel work that caused a bustitution from WAS to PGH.

However, on trainorders, GenePoon posted the text of an announcement issued by NS to its employees. NS is asking for engineers and conductors from other divisions to make a temporary transfer to the northern region to cover the staffing shortages. The temporary transfer are to report on Monday, September 8 and will get paid a total of $15K extra for the temporary assignment.

So staffing shortages have also been part of the reasons for the severe delays from Chicago to Alliance OH.

edit: edited for source attribution.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Boy, a 15K Bonus! Bet lots of Hoggers Volunteer for this one!

Maybe BNSF should do this on the Hi- Line to help get that mess cleared up some!

 

[neroden]

The CL has also been encountering long delays between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA which is likely due to the CSX tunnel work that caused a bustitution from WAS to PGH.

That's *still* going on? The CSX tunnel work?
Well,that explains why CL & LSL reschedule, as recommended in the PIPs, haven't happened yet. The statement in the PIP was that none of this could happen until CSX was done with its extensive tunnel enlargement works, because CSX needed to work through the time when a later CL would run.

 

[afigg]

The CL has also been encountering long delays between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA which is likely due to the CSX tunnel work that caused a bustitution from WAS to PGH.

That's *still* going on? The CSX tunnel work?
Well,that explains why CL & LSL reschedule, as recommended in the PIPs, haven't happened yet. The statement in the PIP was that none of this could happen until CSX was done with its extensive tunnel enlargement works, because CSX needed to work through the time when a later CL would run.

The busitution earlier this week for #29 from WAS to PGH was for 1 day which was attributed in the service alert to tunnel work. It may have been routine tunnel maintenance work, not part of a clearance enlargement project.

The big clearance and capacity improvement project in front of CSX is the Virginia Avenue Tunnel in DC which has been in the local news a lot recently because the NIMBYs are doing what they can to try to block or stall the project. Even with CSX offering the homeowners closest to the tunnel $500 a month for the projected worse case 42 month construction period. The Virginia Ave tunnel rebuild project doesn't affect the CL, although it will have secondary benefits to VRE and Amtrak as the rebuilt tunnel will be double tracked, easing a congestion point that delays northbound freights south of DC which in turn can delay VRE & Amtrak trains. But the Virginia Ave tunnel project is not relevant to CL delays,

It was a bad day for the westbound CL and LSL. LSL #49(9/05) was 1 hour and 15 minutes late departing CLE and arrived at CHI 4 hours and 35 minutes late. CL #29(9/05) had a really bad trip, departing CLE 4 hours and 15 minutes late and arrived at CHI 7 hours and 4 minutes late. Odds are CL #30 will be late departing CHI tonight.

 

[PaulM]

The CL has also been encountering long delays between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA which is likely due to the CSX tunnel work that caused a bustitution from WAS to PGH.

That's *still* going on? The CSX tunnel work?

If he's talking about the "daylighting" project near the Pinkerton Horn between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA, it's been finished since late last Summer. It really wasn't tunnel work, unless you call getting rid of a tunnel tunnel work. It did cause busing east of Pittsburgh on the then rare cases where 30 left Cleveland later than a specific time. The way things have been going, if this were still in effect, there would be busing almost every day.

So, where is this CSX tunnel work?

 

[JayMadison]

Any thoughts on how much delay to expect next week on the CL? I'm guessing 2-3 hours based on some historical times in the last few months

 

[JayMadison]

Kinda sad i'm not taking the Cardinal again now.

 

[JayMadison]

Say a train is really late but you don't miss a connection, does amtrak compensate passengers in some way? (Granted since I have a roomette I suppose they will have to feed me again if it's really late). Here's hopeing I don't get a sucky SCA

 

[neroden]

The CL has also been encountering long delays between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA which is likely due to the CSX tunnel work that caused a bustitution from WAS to PGH.

That's *still* going on? The CSX tunnel work?

If he's talking about the "daylighting" project near the Pinkerton Horn between Cumberland MD and Connellsville PA, it's been finished since late last Summer. It really wasn't tunnel work, unless you call getting rid of a tunnel tunnel work. It did cause busing east of Pittsburgh on the then rare cases where 30 left Cleveland later than a specific time. The way things have been going, if this were still in effect, there would be busing almost every day.

So, where is this CSX tunnel work?

Last year, CSX was going through every single overgrade bridge and tunnel from DC to Pittsburgh, clearing them all for doublestacks, one at a time. That constituted multiple separate large projects on several different tunnels (of which the daylighting project was only one). Even at the end of the summer when the daylighting was done, CSX promptly moved on to a different tunnel.

Maybe the event this year was simply routine tunnel maintenance.

Postscript:

Doing my research, I find that CSX's doublestack clearance program along the former B&O route goes by the name of "National Gateway", and that it is nowhere near done. They're working on the Harper's Ferry tunnel now.

This does explain why the LSL/CL schedule swap hasn't happened yet. I would anticipate it will be much easier to get CSX approval for it once the endless doublestack clearance projects are all done, projected to be sometime in 2015.

 

[Barciur]

Has 30 left CHI today? Amtrak status thing says it's 1hr40m late departing CHI but no status since then.

 

[Acela150]

Say a train is really late but you don't miss a connection, does amtrak compensate passengers in some way? (Granted since I have a roomette I suppose they will have to feed me again if it's really late). Here's hopeing I don't get a sucky SCA

They don't really have anything to compensate.. They got you where you had to go. If you were forced onto a bus I'd say call and complain.. But truthfully unless the train leaves over 30 minutes late... Blame NS.. As was covered earlier in the topic. (See page 3) NS has offered crews from other crew districts to temporarily transfer to the NS Chicago Line to help relieve traffic. It's been described as a "Parking Lot" at times. So blame Norfolk Southern for not hiring enough staff..

Talking about staffing, Class I RR's hire rates for the past year is up 1%. Part of it has to do with the pickiness of the railroads. They aren't taking a serious look at folks. They just filter them out.

 

[afigg]

Any thoughts on how much delay to expect next week on the CL? I'm guessing 2-3 hours based on some historical times in the last few months

Depending on the direction you are going and how far, 1 to 3 hours late covers the most likely delay. But the deviation or variation from day to day has been so large, the average doesn't mean much. As for the Cardinal, it had several very late runs in the past week.

 

[Acela150]

Has 30 left CHI today? Amtrak status thing says it's 1hr40m late departing CHI but no status since then.

Departed CHI 1 hr 50 Min Late. Track a Train shows 48 nearing SOB and 30 still in CHI.. But I think TAT is mixing up 48 and 30. 48 hasn't departed CHI yet.

 

[Barciur]

Not it's showing as 3 hours late, should be accurate with all the other updates.

 

[tommylicious]

Moderator can you please rename this thread "Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited Delays Discussion"

 

[afigg]

Moderator can you please rename this thread "Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited Delays Discussion"

I concur. We need to have just 1 primary thread going forward on the CL and LSL delays. However, I suggest we should have a date or time frame in the title, so the thread is constrained to the NS and CSX problems being encountered this summer and likely to continue into the fall. Since there is a max length for the thread title, how about "Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014" ?

 

[NYP2NFL01]

I created this thread originally & I agree it should be renamed as stated above.

 

[Barciur]

Yikes. Another crap day for the CL. 30 is currently 4 hours 14 minutes late from Connelsville.

So just working on the assumption that the Pennsylvanian is NOT held past its scheduled departure time - 7:30am from PGH, the CL to Pennsy connection in the past 2 weeks was only made five times! The remaining 8 times it arrived past 7:30.. including that one time it was 12 hours late into WAS!

I wonder - is AMTRAK giving out any vouchers to the insane amount of people that are stuck and brought to WAS or other places very late? It seems like it would cost a lot of money to do that.

Actually, it looks like the Pennsylvanian was held today for the CL. It departed 2 hours 20 minutes late, at 9:50 out of Pittsburgh. The CL was in PGH at 8:46. Or is that some other issues that the Pennsy had?

 

[tommylicious]

I am due to ride #30 in October with my daughter. At the top of the pack list I have written "Pack for a 5 hour delay."