Cardinal from Washington to IN--worth it?

[ck102]

Hi everyone, I take Amtrak all from DC to New York often, but I've never taken it for more than 4 hours at a time. I have a chance to take Amtrak out to Indiana to attend a wedding this summer. I was wondering if anyone could share their recent experience on the Cardinal, and whether you think the scenery is worth the 17 hour journey. I see that the Cardinal has no sleeper service anymore, so any comment on seat comfort and food would be appreciated, too. Thank you in advance!

p.s. I did a search on the forum and didn't find a post that answered my question. If there was a similar thread before, I apologize.

 

[Rafi]

Hi everyone, I take Amtrak all from DC to New York often, but I've never taken it for more than 4 hours at a time. I have a chance to take Amtrak out to Indiana to attend a wedding this summer. I was wondering if anyone could share their recent experience on the Cardinal, and whether you think the scenery is worth the 17 hour journey. I see that the Cardinal has no sleeper service anymore, so any comment on seat comfort and food would be appreciated, too. Thank you in advance!p.s. I did a search on the forum and didn't find a post that answered my question. If there was a similar thread before, I apologize.

Actually, there still is Sleeper service on the Cardinal; it's the full service diner that they lost.

I'd recommend the Cardinal at least one way, and if you're going to take it one way, go east; there's no harm in both directions, though. The daylight scenery going east is especially breathtaking. It's regrettable that they don't still have a superliner set on that train with a lounge car. Even so, it's a great trip and is highly recommended.

-Rafi

 

[battalion51]

I'm with Rafi, try it at least one way. See if you can handle longer stretches on the train, you may find that this is the only way you'll want to travel. I'm trying something different myself by spending almost all day on the train in Business Class when I go from Charlotte-Philly, and coach from New York-St. Albans. You never know how you'll like something til you try it.

 

[rile42]

I've taken the Cardinal several times from DC to Chicago or vice versa and always by coach. I know a sleeping car is the best but it wasn't in my budget. I would highly recommend the trip either way.

 

[MrFSS]

Where are you going in Indiana? There are other options besides The Cardinal.

If northern Indiana, you could take The Capitol Limited

Get off in a Northern Indiana city and have someone pick you up.

 

[gswager]

Cardinal is three times a week schedule and also make sure that you'll have enough time between the arrival station and the wedding, even if the train is late.

 

[Guest_Gingee]

We took the Cardinal last summer and took the coach. We took it from Indy to NYC. Towards the end of the trip, the bathrooms were awful. The food is yucky also. Besides that, we did have a good time though. The train was three hours or so late coming back to Indy. We missed our connections and rented a car back to Peoria, IL. Amtrak gave us our difference back.

 

[Guest]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.

How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

 

[AlanB]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.
How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

That is correct, it only gets one sleeping car.

 

[MrFSS]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.
How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

That is correct, it only gets one sleeping car.

And that sleeper also houses the overnight crew, reducing the rooms available to the public.

 

[boratwanksta]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.
How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

That is correct, it only gets one sleeping car.

plus, its weird that nowadys(from all what i've heard about this train, and from seeing pics of it), it only has just FOUR Amfleet cars for coach passengers, including i assume one of those as a Cafe Car(though occasionally, one or 2 of these cars are subbed with Horizon car(s) instead).

its real sad, since i believe i once heard that this train used to use Superliners years ago(plus it ACTUALLY had a dining car till a few years ago, if i'm not mistaken!).

 

[AlanB]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.
How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

That is correct, it only gets one sleeping car.

plus, its weird that nowadys(from all what i've heard about this train, and from seeing pics of it), it only has just FOUR Amfleet cars for coach passengers, including i assume one of those as a Cafe Car(though occasionally, one or 2 of these cars are subbed with Horizon car(s) instead).

its real sad, since i believe i once heard that this train used to use Superliners years ago(plus it ACTUALLY had a dining car till a few years ago, if i'm not mistaken!).

It did indeed at one time have Superliner cars. I rode it a few years back when it was still Superliner equipement. While I understand the various reasons that it no longer does have Superliner cars, that doesn't lesson the loss of the Sightseer lounge car while running through New River Gorge. Amfleet windows just don't cut it for that beautiful run through the gorge.

This however has never been one of Amtrak's best performing LD trains, although ridership has picked up some, since the train was extended to NYP. Something that would not be possible with Superliner equipment.

 

[boratwanksta]

We took the Cardinal last summer and took the coach.  We took it from Indy to NYC.  Towards the end of the trip, the bathrooms were awful.  The food is yucky also.  Besides that, we did have a good time though.  The train was three hours or so late coming back to Indy.  We missed our connections and rented a car back to Peoria, IL.  Amtrak gave us our difference back.

haha, i'm not surprised to hear it was awful, that's what i've acutally heard from other people about the food on the Cardinal. its probably since it doesn't have a dining car, like other long-distance Amtrak trains.

oh, and for the one person who was thinking about taking the Cardinal, i was going to suggest another idea, but it looks like i misread your post thinking you were going somewhere within Virginia(dumb me!), and see you're actually heading westward to Indiana(and not say, from the Chicago area to some point east of there). my new idea i'll now suggest is if you are heading at least as far west as Indianapolis within Indiana(as i'm taking a wild guess that you're at least going this far west in Indiana on the Cardinal), you could ride the Cardinal train westward to Chicago(or take the Hoosier State train west, if you're interesting in traveling on some day that the Cardinal doesn't operate, as the HS provides service between Indianapolis and Chicago on the 4 days that the Cardinal doesn't operate), spend a few hours exploring Chicago in case you've never been to this great city, then take the Capitol Limited train(as it runs daily, unlike the Cardinal's thrice-weekly schedule) east back to DC. thus, you'd get to see at least twice as many cities and towns by going this route, and not have to worry about getting a ride up to a northern Indiana station to catch the Cap. Limited! not to mention you'd get to see several very scenic and historic towns in western Maryland and northeast West Virginia during daylight hours, if you're traveling east.

 

[boratwanksta]

I apologize for bumping in out of nowhere, but I have a question.
How many sleeper cars does the Cardinal carry? Last I heard, there was only one sleeper car...

Thanks!

That is correct, it only gets one sleeping car.

plus, its weird that nowadys(from all what i've heard about this train, and from seeing pics of it), it only has just FOUR Amfleet cars for coach passengers, including i assume one of those as a Cafe Car(though occasionally, one or 2 of these cars are subbed with Horizon car(s) instead).

its real sad, since i believe i once heard that this train used to use Superliners years ago(plus it ACTUALLY had a dining car till a few years ago, if i'm not mistaken!).

It did indeed at one time have Superliner cars. I rode it a few years back when it was still Superliner equipement. While I understand the various reasons that it no longer does have Superliner cars, that doesn't lesson the loss of the Sightseer lounge car while running through New River Gorge. Amfleet windows just don't cut it for that beautiful run through the gorge.

This however has never been one of Amtrak's best performing LD trains, although ridership has picked up some, since the train was extended to NYP. Something that would not be possible with Superliner equipment.

hmmm, i oddly never realized the Cardinal used to be a Chicago-Indianapolis-W. Virginia-DC train only, and that it used to not go all the way east to New York City. now that i think of the other Chicago-DC train(Capitol Limited), has that train always had a Chicago-Pittsburgh-DC routing, or did it once go further to NYC?? this has suddenly made me wonder about if the routing of the Cap. Limited has always been the same, or if it used to ran further east to NYC years ago instead of DC(a la the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers train, since it no longer runs along its former route west of Pittsburgh and through Youngstown and Fostoria, OH on to Chicago, and is now just a NY-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh train).

 

[AlanB]

hmmm, i oddly never realized the Cardinal used to be a Chicago-Indianapolis-W. Virginia-DC train only, and that it used to not go all the way east to New York City. now that i think of the other Chicago-DC train(Capitol Limited), has that train always had a Chicago-Pittsburgh-DC routing, or did it once go further to NYC?? this has suddenly made me wonder about if the routing of the Cap. Limited has always been the same, or if it used to ran further east to NYC years ago instead of DC(a la the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers train, since it no longer runs along its former route west of Pittsburgh and through Youngstown and Fostoria, OH on to Chicago, and is now just a NY-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh train).

I'm not enough of a historian to answer your question about the Capitol Limited, but there probably are a few people here who can answer that question.

However, I can assure you that from the time where the Capitol started using Superliner equipment, it has not run to NY's Penn Station. Due to the height restrictions of the tunnels near Baltimore it's simply not possible. And if they split the train at Pittsburgh for example, they'd still run into trouble with both the Hudson River and the East River tunnels.

Any attempt to run a Superliner car through those tunnels would turn it into a Viewliner car. And I don't mean Amtrak's current Viewliner sleeper fleet, I mean a car with a view through the now missing car roof. :lol:

 

[Sam Damon]

now that i think of the other Chicago-DC train(Capitol Limited), has that train always had a Chicago-Pittsburgh-DC routing, or did it once go further to NYC?? this has suddenly made me wonder about if the routing of the Cap. Limited has always been the same, or if it used to ran further east to NYC years ago instead of DC(a la the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers train, since it no longer runs along its former route west of Pittsburgh and through Youngstown and Fostoria, OH on to Chicago, and is now just a NY-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh train).

I seem to recall that when the Capitol Limited started up under Amtrak about 1981 or so, it only ran between PGH-WAS, and was combined with the Broadway Limited at PGH.

I don't recall how long that arrangement lasted. I can tell you that for my first Amtrak trip in January 1980, I rode the Broadway Limited to PHL, where two coaches and the cafe-lounge car were cut off and sent down the NEC. I think the Capitol Limited came a year or so after that trip. Oddly enough, I still need to pick up the mileage between McKeesport, PA and Pittsburgh on #29/30. IIRC, the McKeesport station is still around (it was rebuilt for the now-defunct PATrain) but Amtrak dropped it as a stop some years ago.

 

[Ctim2]

Actually the Cardinal originally ran NYC-Washington But …..

Prior to Amtrak Penn Central operated the James Whitcomb Riley between Chicago and Cincinnati, and the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway operated the George Washington between Cincinnati and Washington, with a section (trains 41 and 42) splitting at Charlottesville and running to Newport News.

Amtrak, upon its 1971 commencement of operations, kept service identical at first. Through Washington-Chicago and Newport-Chicago coaches began operating July 12, and a through sleeping car began September 8. With the November 14, 1971 schedule, the routes were merged, with the George Washington name being applied eastbound and the James Whitcomb Riley westbound. At the same time the route was extended from Washington to Boston, and was assigned train numbers 50 eastbound and 51 westbound.

On March 6, 1972 the train was rerouted from Chicago's Central Station into Union Station. On April 30 the service was truncated back to Washington from Boston. On May 19, 1974 the George Washington was renamed the James Whitcomb Riley, giving it the same name in both directions. The Newport News section was discontinued June 14, 1976 and the Colonial began running over its former route east of Richmond.

The James Whitcomb Riley was renamed the Cardinal on October 30, 1977, as the cardinal was the state bird of all six states through which it ran. It was discontinued September 30, 1981 (by then having been extended to New York from Washington) and brought back January 8, 1982.

The Hoosier State began October 1, 1980, running over a different route than the Cardinal. On April 27, 1986 the Cardinal was rerouted to use the same tracks as the Hoosier State from Chicago to Indianapolis.

Superliner equipment came to the Cardinal sometime in 1995 in line with the last order of Superliner II’s delivered. Cardinal became a Superliner train with sleeper(s) running tri-weekly from Washington to Chicago (cut back from New York) on the same days as now. The Hoosier State was for a while eliminated, with its Rensselaer stop picked up by the Cardinal

Between 1999 and 2003, the Hoosier State was extended south from Indianapolis to Louisville, Kentucky and renamed the Kentucky Cardinal. This experiment in mail revenue and as a possible first step to service south of Louisville, KY failed

During that time (May 2002) The Cardinal, Nos. 50 and 51, have been was converted to single-level cars, including Amfleet II coaches, a diner and a Viewliner sleeper. With the October 27, 2003 timetable change the Cardinal was extended back to New York.

Now, back to the original question the ride is long but the view thru West Virginal is outstanding!

 

[Ctim2]

now that i think of the other Chicago-DC train(Capitol Limited), has that train always had a Chicago-Pittsburgh-DC routing, or did it once go further to NYC?? this has suddenly made me wonder about if the routing of the Cap. Limited has always been the same, or if it used to ran further east to NYC years ago instead of DC(a la the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers train, since it no longer runs along its former route west of Pittsburgh and through Youngstown and Fostoria, OH on to Chicago, and is now just a NY-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh train).

I seem to recall that when the Capitol Limited started up under Amtrak about 1981 or so, it only ran between PGH-WAS, and was combined with the Broadway Limited at PGH.

I don't recall how long that arrangement lasted. I can tell you that for my first Amtrak trip in January 1980, I rode the Broadway Limited to PHL, where two coaches and the cafe-lounge car were cut off and sent down the NEC. I think the Capitol Limited came a year or so after that trip. Oddly enough, I still need to pick up the mileage between McKeesport, PA and Pittsburgh on #29/30. IIRC, the McKeesport station is still around (it was rebuilt for the now-defunct PATrain) but Amtrak dropped it as a stop some years ago.

hmmm, i oddly never realized the Cardinal used to be a Chicago-Indianapolis-W. Virginia-DC train only, and that it used to not go all the way east to New York City. now that i think of the other Chicago-DC train(Capitol Limited), has that train always had a Chicago-Pittsburgh-DC routing, or did it once go further to NYC?? this has suddenly made me wonder about if the routing of the Cap. Limited has always been the same, or if it used to ran further east to NYC years ago instead of DC(a la the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers train, since it no longer runs along its former route west of Pittsburgh and through Youngstown and Fostoria, OH on to Chicago, and is now just a NY-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh train).

 

[Palmland]

Ok, you have to go back a ways but the Capitol limited did operate through to New York on the B&O routing via Washingotn -Cumberland (rather than Amtrak's early routing from DC to Harrisburg where it joined the Broadway Ltd. )

In 1958 my father took me to the station in Wilmington, DE to see the last day of B&O operations between Baltimore and New York. At that time the Capitol (as well as the Royal Blue, National Ltd and others) began their trip in Jersey City, NJ. You connected at train side with a B&O bus that took you into Manahattan via a ferry from the station.

Now for the amazing part. Last month we went to see my son who works in NYC but lives in NJ. We drove from their house and, as a suprise, he took me to the fully restored CNJ station in Jersey City. They have done a beautiful job with it and although no tracks, the platform sheds are still in place as is the old ferry docks. We then took a water taxi over to lower Manhattan. Great way to go into the city for a day.

If tracks could be restored into there, and you operated over the old B&O/RDG/CNJ routing I bet you could get superliners into New York. Two big 'ifs' but who knows. CSX does operate intermodal into that area.

 

[Sam Damon]

Just to amplify a bit, AFAIK, the Capitol Limited has never under Amtrak, been run through to NYP.

The Superliner equipment has a great deal to do with it. Even before the Superliners, though, Amtrak's route structure was such that Pittsburgh was where you were expected to connect to get to NYP. The only vestige of that service is now #42/43/44.