Changes in Missouri Service

[JoshP]

Sad news:

 

[chrsjrcj]

The Amtrak Connect plan is off to a great start.

 

[Amtrak25]

Indiana train is gone and forgotten. PRIIA-209, from which Connect US is solely based, is working like a charm, isn't it ?.

Its criteria should either be reduced to 100 miles for commuter-like corridors of Capitol, Hiawatha, Keystone, Conn Valley, altered to mimic interstate highway participation of 80 - 90% federal, or else be completely repealed.

 

[penguinflies]

Missouri Govt was in the papers in 2019 for not paying the state funded portion.
Amtrak stated service reductions will happen without payment. Guess during covid it was resolved and service was restored with funding through end of 2021.


https://www.modot.org/node/23001

 

[Amtrak25]

Now if both states would cooperate (what a concept) and just through-route a Lincoln train with the surviving Missouri train and market it as the Ann Rutledge.

 

[como]

Missouri Govt was in the papers in 2019 for not paying the state funded portion.
Amtrak stated service reductions will happen without payment. Guess during covid it was resolved and service was restored with funding through end of 2021.


https://www.modot.org/node/23001

Missouri Govt was in the papers in 2019 for not paying the state funded portion.
Amtrak stated service reductions will happen without payment. Guess during covid it was resolved and service was restored with funding through end of 2021.


https://www.modot.org/node/23001

This is all on the Missouri legislature and how they handled not paying the state funded portion for several years. Amtrak cites lack of state funding in cutting service in Missouri

 

[frequentflyer]

At least the SWC connection from STL is intact. The remaining train will probably feel up those extra coaches used for axle count.

 

[zephyr17]

Indiana train is gone and forgotten. PRIIA-209, from which Connect US is solely based, is working like a charm, isn't it ?.

Its criteria should either be reduced to 100 miles for commuter-like corridors of Capitol, Hiawatha, Keystone, Conn Valley, altered to mimic interstate highway participation of 80 - 90% federal, or else be completely repealed.

Having ridden the Hoosier State several times, I have to say it was a really bad train.

The times were bad at Indianapolis since it ran in the Cardinal's slot the 4 days a week the Card didn't run. It wasn't a schedule that really supported or encouraged travel between Chicago and Indianapolis.

It was really slow, partly due to slow track (dark territory between the outskirts of Indianapolis and Crawfordsville) a somewhat roundabout route, and multiple handoffs between railroads getting out of Chicago. But even with the slow route, a schedule catering to the Indianapolis market could have been created had the train run independently of the Card.

Onboard service at times was non-existent. Before the Iowa Pacific period, it had no food service at all. You got on at 6 am at Indy and could not even get coffee. I have been given to understand that was because Amtrak wanted Indiana to explicitly fund a cafe car and Indiana wouldn't. After IP, Amtrak did throw in cafe service.

I am not even going into the pit that is the Indianapolis Amtrak/Greyhound Station as a disincentive to travelers.

Basically, Indiana bought cheap and they got cheap. Had they funded an independent train that ran 7 days a week on a (still slow) schedule at times friendly to the Indianapolis market, they could have something that could have built ridership and support on. As it was they had a piece of crap train on a bad schedule that you really had to want to ride in order to ride (it probably helped to be a bit of a masochist in the bargain).

I am pretty much a die hard train traveler. I have family in Indy, and generally I'd take Amtrak to Chicago, rent a car and drive the last leg to Indy. When you've driven me off a train, you've pretty much driven off your last customer.

The Connect America plan is a joke until Federal dollars are available to preserve existing service as well as new service.

 

[ShiningTimeStL]

I already knew this was going to happen, but it's devastating to hear again nonetheless. I will still ride the Runner, the old Route of the Eagle, the route of my forefathers, but it won't be the same. Towns like Hermann and Washington will be devastated as day-tripping from St. Louis is now impossible. They will have to completely re-gear their tourist marketing, and ironically, the state will lose millions in sales tax revenue. Of course, as always, St. Louis gets the short end of the stick. Not that hardly anyone here ever truly cared to begin with. They won't care until gas is $10 or until it takes an hour to get five miles down I-70, and by then, it will be far too late.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The Amtrak Connect plan is off to a great start.

Can you explain which part of the Amtrak Connect plan you believe played some role in this?

 

[Amtrak25]

Amtrak Connect Plan is entirely dependent on PRIIA-209, which has thus far cost us the Indiana train, one of two Missouri trains, and developed no new trains except an extension of the Rutland train to Burlington. While it did not "played some role in this ", it is an indicator that Connect US will likely result in nothing, except maybe minor extensions in Virginia and North Carolina.

 

[nti1094]

Amtrak Connect Plan is entirely dependent on PRIIA-209, which has thus far cost us the Indiana train, one of two Missouri trains, and developed no new trains except an extension of the Rutland train to Burlington. While it did not "played some role in this ", it is an indicator that Connect US will likely result in nothing, except maybe minor extensions in Virginia and North Carolina.

Yeah with rare exceptions like California which has spent billions on capital and over a hundred million yearly for operations, most states are too stingy to do the right thing. Their voters continue elect people like Josh Hawley, you know the kind of person who acts like breaking and disrupting the function of a government is somehow a virtue, something to be proud of. These people celebrate mediocrity and disfunction. Just another red welfare state clinging on to rich states like California like a dingleberry, and talking about fiscal responsibility.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Amtrak Connect Plan is entirely dependent on PRIIA-209, which has thus far cost us the Indiana train, one of two Missouri trains, and developed no new trains except an extension of the Rutland train to Burlington. While it did not "played some role in this ", it is an indicator that Connect US will likely result in nothing, except maybe minor extensions in Virginia and North Carolina.

Didn't Missouri drop one of the River Runners in the past due to some kind of missed payments and then restate them later? Missouri really doesn't seem too interested in intercity rail to begin with.
As far as Indiana is concerned, they actually seem proud of being a backwards kind of place.
If state aren't interested in improving rail service for their residents, then those residents should elect new people who are forward looking.
In meantime, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for the folly of those politicians.

 

[neroden]

Yeah with rare exceptions like California which has spent billions on capital and over a hundred million yearly for operations,

Massachusetts, which has purchased nearly all the tracks in the state; Vermont, which has purchased most of the tracks in the state and is opening a new line next year; North Carolina, which owns most of its route (the North Carolina Rail Road) and has done major upgrades; Virginia, which is buying most of the track in the state and doing major upgrades...

I think I'm merely emphasizing your point though. The big problem with the *other* states is that trains from New York to Illinois or from Michigan to Illinois have to go *through* Indiana, so we can't just ignore Indiana and its anti-rail legislature. :-(

 

[SubwayNut]

Didn't Missouri drop one of the River Runners in the past due to some kind of missed payments and then restate them later? Missouri really doesn't seem too interested in intercity rail to begin with.
As far as Indiana is concerned, they actually seem proud of being a backwards kind of place.
If state aren't interested in improving rail service for their residents, then those residents should elect new people who are forward looking.
In meantime, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for the folly of those politicians.

Indiana does have a Commuter Railroad that is actively expanding with a decent amount of state and local funding. The South Shore Line's Double Track and West Lake Corrudor Projects are both under construction

 

[west point]

A solution that will not happen is to reduce those states twice the amount of the costs from road funds. That is only the operating expenses. Not the fully allocated costs. Those costs probably would in five years pay for one complicated interstate interchange?

 

[como]

Didn't Missouri drop one of the River Runners in the past due to some kind of missed payments and then restate them later? Missouri really doesn't seem too interested in intercity rail to begin with.
As far as Indiana is concerned, they actually seem proud of being a backwards kind of place.
If state aren't interested in improving rail service for their residents, then those residents should elect new people who are forward looking.
In meantime, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for the folly of those politicians.
[/QUOTE
Our legislature is not really anti-rail. They are just anti-spending money for anything that they perceive as benefitting the public. The legislature has had several years of not making full payments. This is just the most recent example and typical of how our legislature handles its business. Schools, health care, Medicaid expansion; etc. are also treated this way. We are the Make Me state.

 

[Willbridge]

Indiana does have a Commuter Railroad that is actively expanding with a decent amount of state and local funding. The South Shore Line's Double Track and West Lake Corridor Projects are both under construction

That stretch along the South Shore took a while to realize that it needed to save and upgrade their interurban / commuter rail line. They deserve a lot of credit for what they're getting done.

As for the rest of the state centered on Indianapolis, there are some nice people living there and some pleasant scenery. However, when I was stationed at Fort Benjamin Harrison, GI's called Indianapolis "Naptown" and the transit system was mediocre. In the years since, I've seen little in the trade press that would change that impression.

Having made the Thruway bus connection between Galesburg and Indianapolis, the basement station is a sign that Indiana still doesn't care.

At least the walk from the bus/train station into downtown Indianapolis is well-lit.

 

[SubwayNut]

As for the rest of the state centered on Indianapolis, there are some nice people living there and some pleasant scenery. However, when I was stationed at Fort Benjamin Harrison, GI's called Indianapolis "Naptown" and the transit system was mediocre. In the years since, I've seen little in the trade press that would change that impression.

IndyGo is really trying with the Marion Transit Plan. They have a good dedicated lane BRT line and some more under construction with off board fare collection and actually got an Income Tax Hike that's helping to fund their bus system passed in 2016 (a big deal in Indiana).

 

[JWM]

Having ridden the Hoosier State several times, I have to say it was a really bad train.

The times were bad at Indianapolis since it ran in the Cardinal's slot the 4 days a week the Card didn't run. It wasn't a schedule that really supported or encouraged travel between Chicago and Indianapolis.

It was really slow, partly due to slow track (dark territory between the outskirts of Indianapolis and Crawfordsville) a somewhat roundabout route, and multiple handoffs between railroads getting out of Chicago. But even with the slow route, a schedule catering to the Indianapolis market could have been created had the train run independently of the Card.

Onboard service at times was non-existent. Before the Iowa Pacific period, it had no food service at all. You got on at 6 am at Indy and could not even get coffee. I have been given to understand that was because Amtrak wanted Indiana to explicitly fund a cafe car and Indiana wouldn't. After IP, Amtrak did throw in cafe service.

I am not even going into the pit that is the Indianapolis Amtrak/Greyhound Station as a disincentive to travelers.

Basically, Indiana bought cheap and they got cheap. Had they funded an independent train that ran 7 days a week on a (still slow) schedule at times friendly to the Indianapolis market, they could have something that could have built ridership and support on. As it was they had a piece of crap train on a bad schedule that you really had to want to ride in order to ride (it probably helped to be a bit of a masochist in the bargain).

I am pretty much a die hard train traveler. I have family in Indy, and generally I'd take Amtrak to Chicago, rent a car and drive the last leg to Indy. When you've driven me off a train, you've pretty much driven off your last customer.

The Connect America plan is a joke until Federal dollars are available to preserve existing service as well as new service.

Fourth generation Hoosier who is old enough to have ridden the Monon to Chicago. Amtrak needs to get the old NYC line from Cincinnati to Chicago up and running at 110 mph. It was the fastest with the original "James Whitcomb Riley'" at 3:35.

 

[Willbridge]

Fourth generation Hoosier who is old enough to have ridden the Monon to Chicago. Amtrak needs to get the old NYC line from Cincinnati to Chicago up and running at 110 mph. It was the fastest with the original "James Whitcomb Riley'" at 3:35.

In Spring 1969 I used a weekend pass from 'Fort Ben' to make a round-trip between Indianapolis and Chicago. The 'Riley' as my Hoosier relatives called it, was the last respectable train between the two cities other than every other day's South Wind. At that time the Riley was scheduled for four hours even in either direction, for the 193-mile trip. All of the miserly attempts at a substitute route since have been disappointing.

 

[JWM]

In Spring 1969 I used a weekend pass from 'Fort Ben' to make a round-trip between Indianapolis and Chicago. The 'Riley' as my Hoosier relatives called it, was the last respectable train between the two cities other than every other day's South Wind. At that time the Riley was scheduled for four hours even in either direction, for the 193-mile trip. All of the miserly attempts at a substitute route since have been disappointing.

In June of 1964, I took the Riley and Sportsman to Williamsburg, VA from Indianpolis in a Roomette. C & O did a great job and I still remember the stop at White Sulphur Sptings.

 

[neroden]

Indiana does have a Commuter Railroad that is actively expanding with a decent amount of state and local funding. The South Shore Line's Double Track and West Lake Corrudor Projects are both under construction

I was shocked when the state approved West Lake funding. They have always sort of tolerated South Shore Line as a sop to NW Indiana but West Lake may signal a real thawing from the legislature which previously banned rail transit in Indianapolis.

 

[como]

An update on Missouri River Runner funding. Maybe restore second round trip on July 1. Or not. This is how we do everything in Missouri. Health care, education, etc., in a state that has a budget surplus. Amtrak forgives millions in state debt

 

[SubwayNut]

Indiana is paying every taxpaying Hoosier $125 since our state is running with a surplus, couldn't we use that money to restore the Hoosier State and beef up local transit...