Changes to sleeping car prices?

[battalion51]

The following is a quote from my website. This report is UNCONFIRMED and is not set in stone. Bear this in mind as you read.

Let's call it a lack of intelligence. Sources have told Amtrak Florida that effective April 1, Amtrak may be cutting meals from the price of a sleeping car ticket. These reports are preliminary, and are unconfirmed. The change is expected to occur after Amtrak cannot account for sleeping car passenger meal revnue in the Diner, with only coach meals showing as revenue. It seems that the easy fix would be to just deduct the cost of the meal from the sleeping car revenue, and add it to the Dining Car, but then again that would make sense, so Amtrak obviously can't do that. What will happen as a result is Sleeping car prices will be reduced, no meals will be included. Meanwhile in an effort to bring more coach passengers out of the lounge and into the Diner, Dining Car prices will be cut as well. It seems as though this could in the end bring more money into the Dining Car but only time will tell. AGAIN: These reports are preliminary, and are not set in stone, this is all subject to change, and may not happen all. I would urge you not to freak out if you have sleeper reservations, Amtrak will contact you if any changes are made in sleeper prices, I have sleeper reservations, and I'm just as anxious as you to know, but wait until official word comes down from Amtrak before you take any action on this report. THIS REPORT IS UNCONFIRMED!

The original article can be found here.

 

[Viewliner]

I heard the same thing from Amtrak Yahoo Groups, it would be yet another step in the wrong direction. Lets hope it'll be rumored and nothing more. If they're having trouble accounting for it, then have a simple piece of paper or something as a voucher to account for revenue. But you're right on the ball that if this happens, meal prices have to go down.

 

[railman]

Amtrak already has a "simple piece of paper" to account for dining car meals served to sleeper passengers. Trouble is some crews are lax about lifting them and filing them properly or else give them to friends in the coaches (i.e., theft).

Theft on board trains has plagued Amtrak for years (remember those conductors from Albany, NY?) It's just that now Amtrak management is trying to stem the flow by tightening up accounting processes.

The trouble with the reported proposal for sleeper passengers is that making sleeper passengers buy meals will only put more cash in the hands of the on board crews. That's never a good idea...

 

[battalion51]

Amtrak already has a "simple piece of paper" to account for dining car meals served to sleeper passengers. Trouble is some crews are lax about lifting them and filing them properly or else give them to friends in the coaches (i.e., theft).

Lax? They have to account for every single food item they take out of crew base. If they have no proof of a sale of that item of food, they get a debit from their paycheck. They keep ALL recepits.

 

[panamaclipper]

All they would have to do is give every sleeping car passenger a magnetic card like the hotels use. You would then have this "swiped" when you went to the dining car and the meal orders credited to that "account." How hard can this be? If Holiday Inn can do it, why can't Amtrak?

 

[Steve4031]

Sleeping car prices have traditionally been somewhat high at times. With these high prices, the included meals were an enjoyed perk. Their pricing seems to work to the degree that sleepers are sold out on most trips during the summe. However, do I understand correctly that even with these higher prices the sleeping car service still loses money?

If Amtrak loses money on sleepers that are sold out at current prices, then lowering sleeper prices and lowering dining car prices will probably not produce enough revenue to make any sort of a positive gaineven if coach passengers go to the diner. (Positive probably meaning lose less money then before)

I suspect the biggest loss of money for Amtrak occurs during off-peak travel. I got a round trip sleeper(standard bedroom) to New Orleans from Chicago for $328 dollars at the end of February. On a trip that I priced to New York, the round trip sleeper priced ouat at $500 and something. These are pretty good prices for sleepers. And when I walk through the coaches, the do not seem that full. Thus, Amtrak is not running full trains during the off-season, and at the same time is charing lower prices for the few people who are on board.

I'm talking in circles, but the main point is that lowering sleeping car prices and dining car prices is probably not going to help anything.

 

[sutton8596]

Panamaclipper had the best idea with the swipe card.

My thought: anything that lowers both the sleepers and the diners is fine with me; one could bring their own food, as they do in Europe and Asia (or coach in the USA).

High prices keep the main public from using the train. Most don't want to sit in coach for two days on the LDT and they can't afford a sleeper. If you want the public to support Amtrak, you have to lower prices. It's that simple. Without more riders, ultimately the anti-Amtrak folks in congress will cut Amtrak out, despite the lobbying. Especially if we as a nation are in debt because of endless foreign wars.

 

[AlanB]

While a separate swipe card is a nice idea, it's one more thing that Amtrak now needs to issue to every sleeping car passenger. This simply opens up a different area to theft and makes more work for the ticket agents.

Perhaps the correct answer is a variation on Panama's idea. Simply place the magnetic strip on the back of the passengers Amtrak ticket stub. The technology for this is already in use right here in NY. Currently one can buy a ticket on the LIRR or MN and right on the back of the LIRR ticket is a Metrocard for the subway. This allows the passenger to carry one ticket for their round trip on the commuter RR and for their round trip on the subway.

Amtrak could employ the same type of technology, by encoding a strip on the back of the ticket stub. This eliminates theft opportunities and simplifies life for both the passenger and the ticket agent, since they don't have to worry about a separate card.

Perhaps the biggest issue though with either plan, is the fact that the conductor would need some way to encode either the stub or the card for a passenger who buys an onboard upgrade. Either that or onboard upgrades would not include meals.

 

[Traveler]

My thought: anything that lowers both the sleepers and the diners is fine with me; one could bring their own food, as they do in Europe and Asia (or coach in the USA).

I agree completely. The privacy of a sleeper is much more important to me than having meals included. I've never eaten three meals a day in the diner and would appreciate not having to pay for something I don't use. I've never considered "meals included" a worthwhile perk.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

This is not a good idea. The included meals in the Diner made the fare from Mi. to Fl worthwhile since there was 3 of us traveling. I figured this all in when comparing eating out everyday for the 2,000+ mile trip. If meals were not included, then I may have made the long drive, which is what my wife was pushing to do to begin with. In today's poor economy, people are looking for value more then ever before. If this happens, then the added value of traveling by sleeper is thrown out the window, especially after just getting rid of the free soft drinks and such.

First Class travel by Amtrak is starting or has become almost 2nd Class. I would like to know what they would do with First Class service on Metroliner and Acela Express, would they discontinue the included meals on these trains? If not how could Amtrak justify giving free meals to a First Class coach passenger and not to a First Class sleeper passenger, it just doesn't make sense.

Again, this is a very bad idea ! When you start screwing with perks that a passenger is used to for so many years, that customer may look elsewhere for there transportation needs. And we all know that there is plenty of airlines that are starving for money right now.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

I just e-mailed Amtrak a copy of this article along with my deep concern. I will post if they contact me with a comment.

 

[panamaclipper]

To use the vernacular of the telecom companies, anytime you "unbundle" services there is a strong likelihood that the consumer will pay more. Ooopps. Did I stumble upon a motive? Perhaps I just did.

 

[Traveler]

While I personally don't think "All meals included" is an important part of a sleeping car ticket, I understand if people do. Why couldn't getting "All meals included" simply be an option when purchasing a sleeping car ticket? "Yes" for those who want them, "No" for those who don't. I'm guessing there are a lot of people who would appreciate the chance to save money on a sleeping car ticket if they didn't have to pay extra for three meals a day that they might not use.

 

[battalion51]

Magnetic strping could work, but there's a better alternative. Bar codes. For anyone who's been to a major sporting venue lately, your ticket now has a bar code. Each of the ticket takers has a PDA, with a bar code reader on the top of it. Give that to the LSA, so they can quickly scan the bar code on the ticket, take the order on the PDA, which would go onto a screen in the kitchen (similar to fast food resturants), getting rid of the unnecessary paperwork. Then at the end of the trip the LSA can fill all his/her paperwork out electronically, streamlining the whole Dining car process.

 

[AlanB]

That would work equally well, B51.

Either would be an equitable and relatively painless way to handle things.

 

[battalion51]

The only problem with the magnetic stripes is that on paper tickets if the ticket gets bent, or wet, or anything like that the stripe is hard to read, not so much with the barcode.

 

[AlanB]

The only problem with the magnetic stripes is that on paper tickets if the ticket gets bent, or wet, or anything like that the stripe is hard to read, not so much with the barcode.

Actually, bar codes can smudge very nicely if they get wet. Bends & folds are probably less of a worry for a bar code than they are for mag striping. Mag striping on the other hand would be bothered less by water.

My metro card works equally well wet or dry.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

On Midwest Business Class, the lounge attendent gives you a voucher worth $4.50 toward any purchase in the Cafe when you board the train or soon after departure. This is just a simple slip of paper that comes in different colors. I suppose different colors are for different trains or different days. Anyway the whole point is that it's simple and cost pennies compared to a card reader system and it works. For a sleeper passenger a voucher could be handed to them by the attendent before each meal. Each voucher would be worth what the avg. meal cost. Breakfast could be worth $5.00, lunch $10 and dinner $15. This would work as same as cash and the customer would be charged for any additional amount.

Think about it, what would happen to the ship cruising industry if all of the sudden you had to pay for all your meals ? They would probably loose quite a bit of business.

And if Amtrak takes away the meals for the sleepers and lowers the cost of the room, you know they wont short change themselves. The lower price probably wont come close to what meals in the dining car cost. They will be looking out for themselves and not the customers intrest.

 

[AlanB]

On Midwest Business Class, the lounge attendent gives you a voucher worth $4.50 toward any purchase in the Cafe when you board the train or soon after departure. This is just a simple slip of paper that comes in different colors. I suppose different colors are for different trains or different days. Anyway the whole point is that it's simple and cost pennies compared to a card reader system and it works. For a sleeper passenger a voucher could be handed to them by the attendent before each meal. Each voucher would be worth what the avg. meal cost. Breakfast could be worth $5.00, lunch $10 and dinner $15. This would work as same as cash and the customer would be charged for any additional amount.

The problem with that system is the fact that you still have the opportunity for theft. You are now relying on the sleeping car attendant to account for all of the meals. If Amtrak can't trust the dining car crews, then why would they start trusting sleeping car attendants.

The very same attendants that Amtrak couldn't trust to provide sodas & other treats for their passengers.

 

[Amfleet]

First, regarding the bar codes and magnetic strips. Remeber the failed attempt on Acela to start lifting passengers tickets by using a scanning passenger tickets? I think the technology would not be worth it really. I certainly is a far cry from David Gunn's "traditional" railroad setting. Also, if you can't trust yard crews with video equipment, then adding more high tech stuff into Dining Cars won't make the situation any better. On top of that it's just another thing for Amtrak to worry about fixing when it breaks. While a nice idea, it can certainly wait in my opinion.

I also think that taking away the complementary meal privelage away from sleeping car passengers is a bad idea. Many passengers use sleepers not only for the privacy, but for the savings of up to $100 in meals a day. The system now seems to work fine. All passengers, sleeper and coach, have their meals accounted for on a slip. So why complicate it even more? Hopefully this is a rumor by Amtrak management that will not pass through Gunn.

 

[Viewliner]

Why not just have Passengers retain their ticket stubs, then have them show their stubs at the beginning of the meal. In turn, there can be a Piece of paper with columns that can be checked off after each passenger shows their ticket stub. There can be a clip board with all of the sheets on it, and only 1 set.

Example:

Car # (ex. 9711)                        B1   L1  D1  B2  L2  D2

Room A

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room B

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room C

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room 1

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room 2

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room 3

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room 4

PAX 1

PAX 2

PAX 3

Room 5...

 

[AlanB]

Why not just have Passengers retain their ticket stubs, then have them show their stubs at the beginning of the meal. In turn, there can be a Piece of paper with columns that can be checked off after each passenger shows their ticket stub. There can be a clip board with all of the sheets on it, and only 1 set.

Because there is nothing that stops a hungry LSA from saying that the couple in room #3 had a child with them and checking off that box so that he can get a free meal.

 

[Viewliner]

But There is or at least there used to be the process of handing out the checks at the beginning of the meal telling Passengers to write their room # and sign the checks. If the LSA can't account for the checks, then I guess he'd be the one liable.

 

[AlanB]

First, regarding the bar codes and magnetic strips. Remeber the failed attempt on Acela to start lifting passengers tickets by using a scanning passenger tickets? I think the technology would not be worth it really. I certainly is a far cry from David Gunn's "traditional" railroad setting. Also, if you can't trust yard crews with video equipment, then adding more high tech stuff into Dining Cars won't make the situation any better. On top of that it's just another thing for Amtrak to worry about fixing when it breaks. While a nice idea, it can certainly wait in my opinion.

What's high tech? These days a PDA isn't really all that high tech. One gives the LSA, a PDA like Battalion suggested. The LSA doesn't have to carry it from car to car, like the conductor would have needed to do on the Acela. A PDA is also a whole lot lighter than what was proposed for the Acela project.

Since it's issued right to the LSA, he's responsable and accountable for it. It won't remain in the car to be stolen, he/she will have to turn it in at the end of the trip. It would then be downloaded into the computer to tally the meals for that trip. If the LSA doesn't have enough scans plus cash & charge skips to justify all the meals used, then there is a problem and again he/she is responsible.

 

[AlanB]

But There is or at least there used to be the process of handing out the checks at the beginning of the meal telling Passengers to write their room # and sign the checks. If the LSA can't account for the checks, then I guess he'd be the one liable.

Well again what's to stop the LSA from taking one of those blank guest checks after I leave the diner, placing my room number on it and saying that I came in with a child. A child that has no ticket issued to them. Therefore Amtrak can't prove that he's lying, unless they want to contact me personally.

Amtrak doesn't want to do that, since then they would be telling me that they have a problem. Sooner or later some reporter would hear about this and then it would get to Congress.