Chasing the Crescent...

[jamesontheroad]

On Tuesday 5 September, I will be driving from New Orleans to Tuscaloosa to catch train # 20, the Crescent, northbound to New York City. Yes, that is indeed a bit stupid, since # 20 originates in NOL, but I want to return my hire car to the same office to avoid a pricey one way fee.

Since I'm fairly confident that I could get to TCL before the train does (even in a Chevy Cobalt) I'd like to see if I can catch a few photos of the train before I board it.

Can anyone who knows the area around NOL station recommend easily accessible streets roads for catching sight of # 20 either in or departing the station? Google Earth has Julia and Lasalle Streets between the station and the Arena in New Orleans... Also, further up the line, what are my chances of catching sight of her again around here: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=149808

My route by car would be fairly simple: http://www.google.ca/local?f=d&hl=en&a...mp;t=h&om=1

All suggestions welcomed,

Thanks!

*j* :blink:

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

With all the security issues in NOL right now there is no real good spot close to the station to get a good picture.

 

[George Harris]

I think to do much of anything, you would be cutting it too fine. I note that the Google map gives you 4h53m for driving, but this is an AVERAGE of 60 mph. You may be able to drive 70 or 80, but at 70 mph, this would be 4h10m, so any stops for gas or anything else and you are likely to be out of luck unless the train gets late. You must also consider where the reat car turn in place is in relation to the station and how long it will take you to do that. Looking at the April timetable folder, I see

7:20 am New Orleans

8:16 am Slidell

12:51 pm Tuscaloosa AL

My thoought would be to just get to Tuscaloosa and see if you can find a good place to take a picture of the train coming into the station. Anything else could leave you missing it. If that happens you would stand a good chance, and that is chance, not certainty, of being able to catch it in Atlanta, but not before and then you have the car problem all over again.

If you really want to try something similar but not the same as the north end of Lake Pntchatrain bridge is possilbe, but remember I have said that you are pushing your luck trying to catch a picture in route. I have driven the US 11 bridge across the mouth of Lake Pontchatrain that is closer to the track than the I-10 bridge. This one might get you close but looking at a zoom in of the Google, there is a canal between the old highway and the tracks, so getting from the location from which the end of bridge shot was taken back to car on US11 and getting back to interstate maight take more time than you have.

If you want to try it, first find out if teh US 11 bridge is still usable. I do not know if it suffered hurrican damage or not. If it is, get off I-10 at the US 11 exit just south of the Lake bridge. Take the US 11 bridge across the lake. Your safest bet is to find a place just north of the north end of the bridge and find a good view of the railroad bridge and wait. Be there by 8:00 am. The train should be along by 8:10. Have both your car and your stomach filled and your bladder empty. Take the shot, get back in your car, go north on US 11 a short distance, and there should be a sign pointing for a right turn to an I-10 interchange. This should be state highway 433, and the intersection looks a little funny on the map. Follow it to I-10, Then get on it aimed EAST. Don't forget that when you get to the I12 - I59 interchange, that you want I 59 north. Aim for Tuscaloosa, fast. Don't drink the water or anything made with it in Slidell. It is safe, but it tastes horrible.

Go on line for Mississippi Department of Transportation, and they have information about road conditions. Generally, I 59 is a very good road, but there are slow curves through Laurel MS with possibly some cogestion and construction is eitehr ongoing or will start in the near future. Ther road around Meridian is also congested. Meridian has a nice station ,but it is too far to it and back and the track from there to Tuscaloosa is too fast to consider it as a place to stop.

You could consider taking pictures of facilities without the train and just get your train pictures at Tuscaloosa.

Good luck,

George

 

[had8ley]

On Tuesday 5 September, I will be driving from New Orleans to Tuscaloosa to catch train # 20, the Crescent, northbound to New York City. Yes, that is indeed a bit stupid, since # 20 originates in NOL, but I want to return my hire car to the same office to avoid a pricey one way fee.

Not trying to throw a monkey wrench into your trip but you don't mention the ultimate destination of your rent-a-car. The Tuscalosa agent has put up a "NO PARKING OVERNIGHT" sign up inside the depot. Don't know if you're returning the car there or plan on coming back to get it. The station is NOT in the best part of town although it is is less than a mile from the University of Alabama stadium. Don't have any other safe suggestions as to where to leave if you are not returning it in Tuscaloosa.

 

[had8ley]

If you really want to try something similar but not the same as the north end of Lake Pntchatrain bridge is possilbe, but remember I have said that you are pushing your luck trying to catch a picture in route. I have driven the US 11 bridge across the mouth of Lake Pontchatrain that is closer to the track than the I-10 bridge. This one might get you close but looking at a zoom in of the Google, there is a canal between the old highway and the tracks, so getting from the location from which the end of bridge shot was taken back to car on US11 and getting back to interstate maight take more time than you have.
If you want to try it, first find out if teh US 11 bridge is still usable. I do not know if it suffered hurrican damage or not. If it is, get off I-10 at the US 11 exit just south of the Lake bridge. Take the US 11 bridge across the lake. Your safest bet is to find a place just north of the north end of the bridge and find a good view of the railroad bridge and wait. Be there by 8:00 am. The train should be along by 8:10. Have both your car and your stomach filled and your bladder empty. Take the shot, get back in your car, go north on US 11 a short distance, and there should be a sign pointing for a right turn to an I-10 interchange. This should be state highway 433, and the intersection looks a little funny on the map. Follow it to I-10, Then get on it aimed EAST. Don't forget that when you get to the I12 - I59 interchange, that you want I 59 north. Aim for Tuscaloosa, fast. Don't drink the water or anything made with it in Slidell. It is safe, but it tastes horrible.

Don't forget there are two "draws" on the Highway 11 bridge that can open at any time for marine traffic. It would be a shame to watch #20 go by on the NS trestle while you are waiting for one of the Highway 11 bridges to lower.

 

[George Harris]

"Don't forget there are two "draws" on the Highway 11 bridge that can open at any time for marine traffic. It would be a shame to watch #20 go by on the NS trestle while you are waiting for one of the Highway 11 bridges to lower."

Good point !

However, equally there are matching draw spans in the railroad bridge, so if you are stuck by the highway draw, the train will likely be stuck by the railroad draw, so it is unlikely that you will watch it go by. If so grab a picture. Becuase, in any case if you see the train on the bridge while you are driving on the highway bridge, there is no chance whatsoever of being able to be positioned to take a picture at the north end before the train gets there. That is why if you want the north end picture you should be in place at least 10 minutes in advance of the Slidell station time.

 

[Dan Avon]

There is a pedestrian footbridge over the tracks near the Clara Street tower and the superdome as the train leaves. It looks like a scary place sometimes, but I have never had any trouble there.

At that time in the morning you can likely get the shots of #20 departing, then hop on the I-10 and get to Lakeshore before #20 gets out of the NS/CSX mixmaster. The old US 11 bridge is still in operation, and survived the storms better than the adjacent I-10, which is closed for repairs on weekends now (the metal replacement spans have their bolts fall out from heavy truck traffic, and have to be re-tightened almost every Saturday and Sunday night).

You would want to do this pretty soon, as with the time change #20 will be departing in the dark again very soon. I understand that starting this year we will never go back to standard time again, so the chances of getting the Crescent in daylight in the New Orleans area will end for good in about a month. There is also talk that the Crescent itself will be cancelled for good very soon. The New Orleans Amtrak mechanical base is in the process of being closed down now, with the diesel shop shuttered last month, and the crew base to be eliminated in April.

After Slidell it would be tough to keep up if you make any side trips, but you could get on I-59 and head to Meridian for sure. There are 4-5 places between Picayune and Meridian that are easy to get off I-59 but I wouldn't go very far off I-59. Meridian is not a very long stop, but it is the only one that is more than a minute. Slidell, Picayune, Hattiesburg, and Laurel are very short, and you cannot easily get back and forth off the interstate anywhere except Meridian.

 

[Dan Avon]

Forgot to mention, there are no shoulders on the old US 11 bridge, so you cannot stop on it. It is heavily used as a commuter route in the mornings, so there will be lots of southbound traffic on it, and even if you can pace yourself to the train, the oncoming traffic could literally kill you. The two bridges actually are pretty close together at the north draw, but they start to diverge again as you get closer to north shore. You could catch a shot at the old road crossing that existed across from Eden Isles before Katrina, but I have not been back there so I don't know if it is still there or not. It is tough to get back to the interstate from there in the best of times, and you would lose about 30 minutes doing so.

The I-10 twin spans, as I mentioned, are very unpredictable. They have been rebuilt, but they are subject to frequent closure for the bolt tightening exercise mentioned before, and they are often shut down due to accidents or just plain gridlocked. This should not be so much of a problem going north, as they took the best pieces of both spans and pasted them together on the northbound span. The metal temporary sections are on the southbound span of I-10/59.

 

[George Harris]

Do we have a source for the "Crescent being cancelled" rumor? This is new, unless it is simply a part of all the long distance trains being cancelled possibility.

Jamesbrownontheroad, how about giving us some more info or possibilities based on what has been said or not said?

George

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Do we have a source for the "Crescent being cancelled" rumor? This is new, unless it is simply a part of all the long distance trains being cancelled possibility.
Jamesbrownontheroad, how about giving us some more info or possibilities based on what has been said or not said?

George

And furthermore, about the source of this rumour, does the source mean cancel all the way from NYP to NOL or maybe just south of Atlanta?

The line does have an on again and off again history of operating only three days a week south of Atlanta, (both Amtrak and pre-Amtrak) so that would not be quite so scarey.

I am planning a trip to either WAS or NYP in the next couple of months..

 

[1702]

I understand that starting this year we will never go back to standard time again, so the chances of getting the Crescent in daylight in the New Orleans area will end for good in about a month. There is also talk that the Crescent itself will be cancelled for good very soon. The New Orleans Amtrak mechanical base is in the process of being closed down now, with the diesel shop shuttered last month, and the crew base to be eliminated in April.

Time for a few, shall we call them, facts:

Daylight Saving Time will end this year on Sunday, Oct. 29th, and we revert to Standard Time. Starting in 2007, DST will begin on the second Sunday in March (3/11/07) and end on the first Sunday in November (11/04/07).

The Crescent cannot be cancelled "very soon" as 180-day notices are required for any train that is the only service on its route.

For better or worse (probably worse, certainly for the affected employees), many of the functions performed by the mechanical staff at New Orleans are being transferred to Chicago.

Which crew base are you talking about, T&E or OBS? Closing the New Orleans T&E crew base would require the opening of two new ones to staff the City of New Orleans and the Sunset. The New Orleans OBS crew base currently staffs the City of New Orleans and possibly some jobs on the Crescent. These jobs could easily revert to their former crew bases should a decision be made to close down the NOL OBS base.

 

[Dan Avon]

The Sunset Limited has already been cancelled without the requisite legal notices, Amtrak managers have figured that out, and the unions are not going to be fighting the train-offs because their existing members have protection for six years whether they work or not. The question about the Crescent now seems to revolve around when it will be cut back to Atlanta, not if.

I could be wrong about the DST, but the news media covered a congressional act that I thought had put the country on it year round. Maybe that bill didn't become law, or maybe it doesn't go into effect until 08, who knows.

But as for photography, the morning train 20 is in darkness when it leaves during the winter months. It should still be OK on the date in question though. Train 19 sometimes arrives in twilight in the summer months if it is on time, which recently has been almost never. Other times it is dark beyond Slidell.

It makes no sense to me to take work from an area of the country that had experienced employees who knew how to do their jobs, and worked for a lot less in a lower cost of living area than Chicago. Why hire a bunch of newbies who have to be trained in Chicago, and will be paid twice what their New Orleans brothers and sisters used to make?

 

[1702]

The Sunset Limited has already been cancelled without the requisite legal notices, Amtrak managers have figured that out, and the unions are not going to be fighting the train-offs because their existing members have protection for six years whether they work or not.
I could be wrong about the DST,

It makes no sense to me to take work from an area of the country that had experienced employees who knew how to do their jobs, and worked for a lot less in a lower cost of living area than Chicago. Why hire a bunch of newbies who have to be trained in Chicago, and will be paid twice what their New Orleans brothers and sisters used to make?

Where do you get all this baloney?? Some more pesky facts-

The Sunset Limited has not been "cancelled" but is still running on its original Amtrak Los Angeles to New Orleans routing. Yes, service east of New Orleans has been suspended since Hurricane Katrina and may never be reinstated, but the train has just reverted to its original Amtrak route. If Amtrak decides to make the suspension permanent, a 180-day train off notice will be required.

There is no labor protection for six years, and there has not been since 11/02/99. As a provision of the Amtrak Reform and Accountability Act, Amtrak and its unions were required to negotiate a replacement for the labor protection then known as Appendix C-2. On 5/31/98 Amtrak and the unions agreed to binding arbitration on the issue, and on 11/02/99 the arbitrator issued his ruling, establishing the Labor Protection Provisions which provide protection on a sliding scale dependent on an employee's seniority. The maximum benefit period is 60 months. There cannot be any such benefit for a train-off of the Sunset Limited between New Orleans and Orlando, as T&E crews work out of the New Orleans and Jacksonville crew bases and have the ability to displace onto other assignments at those bases. There would be no OBS employees affected.

"I could be wrong about the DST".........no could be about it, you are. Check out wikipedia some time; you might learn something.

The only way New Orleans employees could "work for a lot less" than their Chicago counterparts is if they are employed by a contractor and not by Amtrak. Amtrak employees are paid the same system-wide.

I'm sure your mind is already made up on all this, but others may or may not find it of interest. This is for them, not for you.

 

[George Harris]

I have no clue who or where this Dan Avon character is, but so far his post have been pretty close to a fact free zone. Now, I will admit to not having been on the Gulf Coast in December for quite a few years, but if what little memory my brain still has functions, the Crescent laving New Orleans in the dark is not quite accurate either. Remember the times?

7:20 am New Orleans

8:16 am Slidell

12:51 pm Tuscaloosa AL

These have been pretty close to the schdule of this train since the 1950's, so I would not expect much change in the future. 7:20 is at least getting light even on the shortest days of the year in New Orleans, and I know that crossing the Lake Pontchatrain trestle northbound is done in daylight , always.

Somebody that actually lives at the lattitude of New Orleans, like Battalion 51, please correct me if my memory has gone bad or they have moved New Orleans a few hundred miles north while nobody was looking.

George

 

[had8ley]

Now, I will admit to not having been on the Gulf Coast in December for quite a few years, but if what little memory my brain still has functions, the Crescent laving New Orleans in the dark is not quite accurate either. Remember the times?7:20 am New Orleans

8:16 am Slidell

12:51 pm Tuscaloosa AL

These have been pretty close to the schdule of this train since the 1950's, so I would not expect much change in the future. 7:20 is at least getting light even on the shortest days of the year in New Orleans, and I know that crossing the Lake Pontchatrain trestle northbound is done in daylight , always.

Somebody that actually lives at the lattitude of New Orleans, like Battalion 51, please correct me if my memory has gone bad or they have moved New Orleans a few hundred miles north while nobody was looking.

George

The only hang up on getting pictures of #20 leaving NOUPT is fog which occurs mostly in the fall and spring in New Orleans. In the middle of winter the lighting is barely passable for a dedent picture but other than possibly January and February you're going to get a daylight picture barring a foggy morning.

 

[Dan Avon]

OK, so the labor agreement is 60 months now instead of 6 years, my apologies. It still costs jobs, either the extra board or people who would have gotten hired and weren't. It also costs the public and the communities along the way in terms of economic development potential and tourism that is lost forever. If you can justify cancellation of the Sunset Limited without the legal notices, you can justify anything. Indeed, after a year, this is not a temporary suspension.

Excuse me also, but the starting pay is a lot less than the senior employees who knew what they were doing got paid. It also costs many thousands of dollars to train new people. Sure, these are not brain surgeons or jet fighter pilots, but you just can't walk in off the street and do this kinda work. Don't have knowledge of what the starting pay is in Chicago, but guarantee you they have to pay more to entice qualified people in a major high-COL metro than in NOL.

Regarding dark or light, I thought we were talking about the photography at NOUPT which is indeed in the dark more than half of the year at the Crescen'ts departure time. If you are talking about Tuscaloosa, it is in the middle of the day. The time change makes all of the difference in the world if you are trying to do your photo work on the cusp of sunrise or sunset.

 

[AlanB]

Regarding dark or light, I thought we were talking about the photography at NOUPT which is indeed in the dark more than half of the year at the Crescen'ts departure time. If you are talking about Tuscaloosa, it is in the middle of the day. The time change makes all of the difference in the world if you are trying to do your photo work on the cusp of sunrise or sunset.

Dan, well the US Military would be very surprised to learn that New Orleans is in the dark at 7:20 AM for half of the year. :unsure: If one heads to this site run by the US Navy, one can compute a chart showing sunrise/sunsets for the entire year.

According to that chart, the latest sunrise in 2006 occured in the month of January from 3rd through the 17th, when sunrise each morning came at 6:57 AM local time. A full 23 minutes before the departure of the Crescent. Every other day of the year, the sunrise came even earlier than that. And their definition of "Sunrise" is that "the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon".

 

[1702]

Excuse me also, but the starting pay is a lot less than the senior employees who knew what they were doing got paid. It also costs many thousands of dollars to train new people. Sure, these are not brain surgeons or jet fighter pilots, but you just can't walk in off the street and do this kinda work. Don't have knowledge of what the starting pay is in Chicago, but guarantee you they have to pay more to entice qualified people in a major high-COL metro than in NOL.

In your post of 8/30/06 you said, "Why hire a bunch of newbies who have to be trained in Chicago, and will be paid twice what their New Orleans brothers and sisters used to make."

Now, you say "starting pay is a lot less than the senior employees". Any contradiction there?

No, one can't " just walk in off the street and do this kinda work". Amtrak doesn't hire people in the skilled crafts (electricians, machinists, pipefitters, boilermakers, etc.) who do not already have a significant amount of training. I'm sure there is additional classroom/on-the-job training, but that is true in any industry.

One more time, as far as pay rates are concerned, Amtrak and its unions negotiate pay and benefits on a system-wide basis. The only difference would be at points where Amtrak contracts for mechanical or other functions to be provided by private companies and the workers are not Amtrak employees.

 

[Dan Avon]

Here is the information on the new US federal law:

DST will start the second Sunday of March and end on the first Sunday of November. The changes were to extend it on both ends starting in 2007, although going to year round DST was considered.

As for photos of the Crescent departing, even after sunrise in the months that the sun is low on the horizon, as now, the area is shadowed by the New Orleans Arena, and the platforms. The area is well fenced now and you can't get in there unless you are a ticketed passenger with permission to go beyond your designated car. Photos are difficult except for the aforementioned stairs uncer Carrollton Avenue.

The areas we talked about before, the Lakeshore and the north end of the causeway should be pretty good tomorrow if the train is on time. The weather forecast for tomorrow calls for zero rain anywhere along the Crescent's southern route.

 

[Dan Avon]

It is pretty clear that the "program" still calls for elimination of the "National Rail Passenger" portion of the NRPC. There will still be state supported commuter operations in a few places. Why else would maintenance and crew bases that were essential for over 35 years suddently be closed, and operations centralized and consolidated only in Chicago? Are you willing to assume that nothing is going to break down anywhere other than Chicago?

I think you miss the whole point, but if it's so true that the cost is the same, and these bases and people are so suddenly un-needed after 35 plus years, then why not close Chicago and do all the work at Beech Grove? Elimination of duplicated facilities and "excess workers clearly calls for the end of one or the other when the other shoe drops.

 

[Dan Avon]

When you consider that you can't replace the experience at the starting pay for new hires, and you will have to pay more than the entry level pay in Chicago to get anybody worth there salt, there is no contradiction. You get what you pay for. This is not the time to eliminate maintenance employees when the equipment is again past replacement age, and breakdown rates are again edging back up to where they were in the mid 1970's. The only good thing the company has going for it is that at least one component of the diesel fleet is still relatively young, but with the pending retirement of half of the western diesel fleet due to inadequate funding for overhauls and replacement, the handwriting is on the wall.

Excuse me also, but the starting pay is a lot less than the senior employees who knew what they were doing got paid. It also costs many thousands of dollars to train new people. Sure, these are not brain surgeons or jet fighter pilots, but you just can't walk in off the street and do this kinda work. Don't have knowledge of what the starting pay is in Chicago, but guarantee you they have to pay more to entice qualified people in a major high-COL metro than in NOL.

In your post of 8/30/06 you said, "Why hire a bunch of newbies who have to be trained in Chicago, and will be paid twice what their New Orleans brothers and sisters used to make."

Now, you say "starting pay is a lot less than the senior employees". Any contradiction there?

No, one can't " just walk in off the street and do this kinda work". Amtrak doesn't hire people in the skilled crafts (electricians, machinists, pipefitters, boilermakers, etc.) who do not already have a significant amount of training. I'm sure there is additional classroom/on-the-job training, but that is true in any industry.

One more time, as far as pay rates are concerned, Amtrak and its unions negotiate pay and benefits on a system-wide basis. The only difference would be at points where Amtrak contracts for mechanical or other functions to be provided by private companies and the workers are not Amtrak employees.