Chicago-Detroit-Toronto service proposal with Amtrak/VIA connection in Windsor ON

[railiner]

Yeah - I feel like VIA could see a lot more ridership by extending their Windsor-Toronto train (or at least some of them) to Detroit. Would make it a viable option for Canadians who want to go to Detroit for an event or other reasons - while many in Detroit can drive to Windsor currently, those from Canada won’t have a car on the Windsor end. While the plan for a connection would provide this for one trip per day, VIA could potentially run more than that and provide a more convenient one-seat ride for Toronto-Detroit, while still providing connections to Amtrak at MCS. Having more VIA trains cross the border would also open up connections further down the corridor to Ottawa/Montreal/Quebec City, some of which would require overnight stays with the proposed plan. And Detroit just seems like a far more logical endpoint for service than Windsor - there will be a lot more options there in case of a misconnect.

I like it. Would also .possibly allow a one day trip between Detroit and New York some day, connecting at Aldershot

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

If VIA terminates in Detroit, CBSA will find a way to delay departures whenever they want. Run the Tunnel bus every 20 minutes rather than every hour as now, and have it serve Amtrak in Detoit and VIA in Walkerville.

VIA Rail HEP is easily made compatible with Amtrak with crossover cabling. The last time it was done was after Sandy with Amtrak engines hauling VIA equipment to Albany.

https://www.nwrail.com/HEP_config.html

I appreciated the linked article, as I had no idea of what "HEP" was previously.

 

[BlackDiamond]

From Windsor's point of view.
..
https://windsorstar.com/news/local-...roposed-toronto-chicago-passenger-train-route

The implication in the video is that VIA London to Windsor is not heavily patronized and is a bit of an afterthought so adding service to Detroit whether it is via an Amtrak connection or by extending VIA to MCS would perhaps add patronage and make the London to Windsor portion more viable.

 

[west point]

The implication in the video is that VIA London to Windsor is not heavily patronized and is a bit of an afterthought so adding service to Detroit whether it is via an Amtrak connection or by extending VIA to MCS would perhaps add patronage and make the London to Windsor portion more viable.

Good point! potential passengers much more likely to say "Great a train to Detroit" Toronto and other locations passengers saying don't have to get off in Windsor to reboard to get to Detroit. The Amtrak and VIA officials have to think how passengers will react to an extra off and on when terminating in Detroit or making further connections there. Toledo connections are coming soon or later. Maybe Pontiac as well. There is just not that on the Windsor side!

 

[rs9]

To offer a few thoughts:

- While this is not high speed rail, I think this is a rather monumental step for Amtrak - establishing a new long distance route that doesn't run overnight. For all the talk on this forum of running day long distance trains...this is exactly it.

- Regarding a Thruway bus for Detroit-Toronto: how easy is it for the bus to get to the Toronto city center while dealing with rush hour traffic? Trains have a significant edge here.

- 11 hours total travel time from end to end is not necessarily competitive with flying. However, this route would serve a major city in Detroit as well as a major university town (Ann Arbor).

- Flying vs. train travel has a much different mean in the work from home era. However, Amtrak has to actually commit to a product that enables this (wifi, food not laden with your sodium intake for the week, some semblance of a guarantee your train is going to run). As someone who has tried the WFH route on Amtrak, my take is Amtrak has no interest in this target audience (outside the NEC).

- Another note on flying vs. train competitiveness: not to be a doomsayer, but the global warming problem isn't going away. There may come a tipping point when more and more people (like myself) will choose 11 hours on a train to mitigate our emissions. While a non-electrified route isn't perfect, the Siemens Chargers are significant upgrades in terms of carbon emissions and other emissions that impact human and environmental health.

 

[jis]

To offer a few thoughts:

. . .

- Another note on flying vs. train competitiveness: not to be a doomsayer, but the global warming problem isn't going away. There may come a tipping point when more and more people (like myself) will choose 11 hours on a train to mitigate our emissions. While a non-electrified route isn't perfect, the Siemens Chargers are significant upgrades in terms of carbon emissions and other emissions that impact human and environmental health.

Indeed, by orders of magnitude in terms of just CO2 and NOx emissions, and those happen at more vulnerable layers of the atmosphere from plane than from ground level trains.

 

[thully]

- Regarding a Thruway bus for Detroit-Toronto: how easy is it for the bus to get to the Toronto city center while dealing with rush hour traffic? Trains have a significant edge here.

I think those proposing a Thruway bus are suggesting one from Detroit Amtrak to Windsor VIA (and the reverse), not Detroit to Toronto. That’s just a few miles.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

As a crocheter, some of my "dream trips" are geared around trips to huge/famous/very well-stocked yarn stores, and one such yarn store is the Spinrite Yarn Factory Outlet in Listowel, ON, just a little ways N by bus from one of the intermediate stops on VIA's Windsor-Toronto Corridor route. It would be much too far to be drivable all the way from central IL, but Lincoln Service to Chicago and connecting to an Amtrak/VIA Chicago-Detroit-Toronto train would be very feasible (esp. in Business Class!).

 

[Amtrak25]

It is not a monumental step for Amtrak at all because it is not a long distance route. As far as Amtrak is concerned, it is a Wolverine Corrior train subsidized solely by Michigan. Amtrak has no problem spending other people's money with their Connect US map, which are all state supported corridors, most of which are fantasies, to distract us from their long distance route network that they are running into the ground and will continue to. They have no intention in repairing more than 23 Superliners, claiming 45 more are beyond repair.

It would not be a Thruway Bus between between Detroit and Toronto but to connect the Amtrak train in Detroit with the VIA Rail train in Windsor, which are not now easily connected by rail.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I wonder what the price point of a Chicago-Toronto ticket would be? If it was competitive with flying, 11 hours might now be so bad....

 

[jiml]

An across-the-platform transfer between trains - whether in Detroit or Windsor - is infinitely better than involving a bus at any point of the trip.

 

[Amtrak25]

It won't be across the platform. They would put the VIA Rail train into a caged-in track in Detroit somewhere, and walk the passengers off into a building facility, then back out again after inspection. Allow 2 hours.

The thru Amtrak fare to VIA Rail's turf of Niagara Falls, ON through Toronto is monumental, which also discourages patronage because VIA Rail doesn't want the route, nor Stratford-Sarnia for that matter, which they tried and failed to palm off on GO Transit. They are less down on the Windsor route.

 

[west point]

Did MC station have a border facility? If so is that location still there and can it be restored? That seems more favorable than trying to deal with a new station and border facility in Windsor. Has Canada located border facilities in other countries as the US has.? Canadian border facility at MC would reduce total crew times for VIA. Amtrak having to do a border facility in Windsor would increase Amtrak crew times Also depending on schedule would tie up an extra train set.

 

[Amtrak25]

They must have been something somewhere, but it doesn't matter now. It is not just an office for them and a few interviewees, Customs will no longer do on-board inspections. Something on the order of Vancouver would have to be set up. VIA Rail Station out in Walkerville is not set up for this.

 

[jiml]

This whole proposal may amount to nothing. In several articles today VIA has toned down their role in it, with statements like "Via Rail did not release the project fact sheet shared by some media outlets last week and we believe it is premature to be holding a discussion on this project in the public sphere" and that they have made no commitments to fund any part of it. Here's one that shouldn't be behind a paywall:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...n&cvid=82cc149445bd41e78e259621750871cb&ei=38
Another article points out that only Amtrak and local politicians have spoken about the plan and that the detail released did not come from an official source. Neither the Ontario or Canadian federal government (whose approval would be required) have commented. With the timeline already several years out this does not bode well for getting it done.

 

[jis]

This whole proposal may amount to nothing. In several articles today VIA has toned down their role in it, with statements like "Via Rail did not release the project fact sheet shared by some media outlets last week and we believe it is premature to be holding a discussion on this project in the public sphere" and that they have made no commitments to fund any part of it. Here's one that shouldn't be behind a paywall:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...n&cvid=82cc149445bd41e78e259621750871cb&ei=38
Another article points out that only Amtrak and local politicians have spoken about the plan and that the detail released did not come from an official source. Neither the Ontario or Canadian federal government (whose approval would be required) have commented. With the timeline already several years out this does not bode well for getting it done.

That does not surprise me at all since Canada clearly has shown very little interest in most rail connections to the US, and have dragged their feet at every opportunity, way beyond the US side has, if that were possible. So no wonder they don't want any public discussion LOL!

In any case running a Thruway Bus from Amtrak station in Detroit, wherever it is, to the Windsor VIA station would mostly be an Amtrak and local government funded thing, but as stated, it does require permission from Ontario, which my guess is, will not be granted easily, if at all, if past experience is any indication.

 

[Amtrak25]

Canada has tossed the whole Montreal Pre-clearance issue onto Quebec Province even though CBSA is a federal issue.

Washington State had to pay for track improvements in British Columbia.

Anything west of Toronto on VIA Rail is an afterthought. They have palmed off Niagara Falls service to GO and only run the Maple Leaf for political reasons. They failed to hand over Stratford Line service to London to GO, but could yet turn the remaining Sarnia train into a bus.

Detroit might as well be in Alaska.

Expect nothing, so enjoy Tunnel Bus. https://www.citywindsor.ca/residents/transitwindsor/service-to-detroit/Pages/Tunnel-Bus-Service.aspx

 

[MARC Rider]

Washington State had to pay for track improvements in British Columbia.

Considering that the Cascades I rode generally averaged about 50 km/hr for most of its run in British Columbia, I hate to think if what the tracks were like before Washington State paid for the improvements.

 

[Crowbar_k]

This might be slightly off topic, but is there a reason the border patrol can't do the check's on the train while it's in motion? That's what they do on the cross border (non-schengen) European trains. It would save so much time.

 

[jis]

This might be slightly off topic, but is there a reason the border patrol can't do the check's on the train while it's in motion? That's what they do on the cross border (non-schengen) European trains. It would save so much time.

Both US CBP and Canadian CBSA have pretty much categorically said they will not do on board inspection on a running train. That is why it is not done.

 

[Amtrak25]

They don't even want to do the train while standing still, and only do the Adirondack because it was grandfathered in.