Comparing Amtrak Cuisine to 1940's RR cuisine

[dlagrua]

Like most of you I wasn't around during the Golden Age of Passenger Railroads. It was way before my time. I've read that the food and service were outstanding. My only experience with dining on trains is Amtrak but I've often wondered how Amtrak food compares to the food served on the old railroad lines. While we can't go back in time we can recreate the recipes and try the food at home.

Last month I purchased a book called "Dining by Rail" authored by James D Porterfield. It gave a history of food service on the railroads and included a large section on actual kitchen recipes taken from the archives of the passengers railroads plus a few Fred Harvey recipes.

Being competant amateur chefs ;we went ahead and tried some authentic rail recipes this weekend and all I can say is wow! They were abolutely great.

Saturdays menu

Dutch Meat Loaf, Chicago, Milwaukee, ST Paul & Pacific Railroad recipe

Baked Potato Pennsylvania - PRR recipe

Mixed vegatables Home recipe

Sundays menu:

Scalllopines of Pork Tenderloin w Riesling Wine sauce New York Central Recipe

Potatoes Romanoff Illinois Central Recipe

Cole Slaw Misouri Pacific Recipe

After trying the authentic old recipes I can relay that the food way back when, was nothing short of outstanding.

Todays Amtrak food is the reality and its never going to be gourmet. Amtrak food is more basic than the fancy food served in years past, but it is still good and enjoyable.

It must have been something dining on those old trains. However,the fancy food was served to business clientelle, first class passengers and those willing to pay premium prices, for a true dining experience.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

Todays Amtrak food is the reality and its never going to be gourmet. Amtrak food is more basic than the fancy food served in years past, but it is still good and enjoyable.

It must have been something dining on those old trains. However,the fancy food was served to business clientelle, first class passengers and those willing to pay premium prices, for a true dining experience.

Of course. I'm pretty sure that the economy class dining on the 1940s trains probably weren't any better than Amtrak. However, Amtrak's trains were supposed to be based off of those old steamliner trains, whatever was left of them.

Awesome Dawson dining cars were only really suitable for these long distance and high-end trains.

Also, here's something to think about: Harvey House. Probably the inspiration for today's roadside restaurants.

 

[Shanghai]

Thanks, the entrees sound delicious.

No veggie burgers or flat iron steaks??

 

[dlagrua]

Todays Amtrak food is the reality and its never going to be gourmet. Amtrak food is more basic than the fancy food served in years past, but it is still good and enjoyable.

It must have been something dining on those old trains. However,the fancy food was served to business clientelle, first class passengers and those willing to pay premium prices, for a true dining experience.

Of course. I'm pretty sure that the economy class dining on the 1940s trains probably weren't any better than Amtrak. However, Amtrak's trains were supposed to be based off of those old steamliner trains, whatever was left of them.

Awesome Dawson dining cars were only really suitable for these long distance and high-end trains.

Also, here's something to think about: Harvey House. Probably the inspiration for today's roadside restaurants.

I believe that most trains had dining cars open to all but the upscale and business clientele probably made up most of the patrons.

Harvey House and Fred Harvey Restaurants were both active on the rails, in the stations (West of Chicago) and on the old 2 lane highways like Route 66. I believe that the chain finally closed in 1980. While it can be said that Harvey House Restaunts were an inspiration for todays roadside restaurants like Cracker Barrel,Bob Evans and Perkins; if you looked at an old Harvey menus the food choices were fancier and required far more preparation than todays "corporate" food. To my knowledge, Harvey House cooked and prepared using only fresh ingredients.

Thanks, the entrees sound delicious.No veggie burgers or flat iron steaks??

The Amtrak steaks are not bad and the veggie burgers are OK for lunch but fine dining its not.

 

[stntylr]

We'll see how the train food goes. In August I've got 5 days coming up of eating train food everyday.

 

[Shanghai]

Good Luck, you will be hungry for some Texas Chili when you get home!!

 

[zepherdude]

The Illinois Central on "The City of Miami" would serve skillet fried chicken, homemade mashed potatoes and cream gravy that would just be heaven. No one counted calories or carbs. We enjoyed and lived a good life and somehow live to remember it. Strawberry Shortcake ala mode finished the meal and one could not walk they were so full. That meal went for 2.50, wow! What a difference today.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Like most of you I wasn't around during the Golden Age of Passenger Railroads. It was way before my time. I've read that the food and service were outstanding. My only experience with dining on trains is Amtrak but I've often wondered how Amtrak food compares to the food served on the old railroad lines. While we can't go back in time we can recreate the recipes and try the food at home.

Last month I purchased a book called "Dining by Rail" authored by James D Porterfield. It gave a history of food service on the railroads and included a large section on actual kitchen recipes taken from the archives of the passengers railroads plus a few Fred Harvey recipes.

Being competant amateur chefs ;we went ahead and tried some authentic rail recipes this weekend and all I can say is wow! They were abolutely great.

Saturdays menu

Dutch Meat Loaf, Chicago, Milwaukee, ST Paul & Pacific Railroad recipe

Baked Potato Pennsylvania - PRR recipe

Mixed vegatables Home recipe

Sundays menu:

Scalllopines of Pork Tenderloin w Riesling Wine sauce New York Central Recipe

Potatoes Romanoff Illinois Central Recipe

Cole Slaw Misouri Pacific Recipe

After trying the authentic old recipes I can relay that the food way back when, was nothing short of outstanding.

Todays Amtrak food is the reality and its never going to be gourmet. Amtrak food is more basic than the fancy food served in years past, but it is still good and enjoyable.

It must have been something dining on those old trains. However,the fancy food was served to business clientelle, first class passengers and those willing to pay premium prices, for a true dining experience.

On a train which had both coaches and sleepers there was not always a separate dining car for each clss of service. More likely to have separate lounge cars.

As for the food being extra good on trains like the 20th Century Limited, the Super Chief, the Panama Limited, the Broadway Limited, well they were all sleeper anyway.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I know we have Congress to thank, but food just tastes better when it is not served on plastic and the tablecloth and napkins are not made of paper!

 

[TVRM610]

I know we have Congress to thank, but food just tastes better when it is not served on plastic and the tablecloth and napkins are not made of paper!

Sorry to nit-pick but Amtrak dining cars use cloth napkins.

I'm fine with the paper tablecloths and the plastic plates. What I really hope for is "real" coffee mugs.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I know we have Congress to thank, but food just tastes better when it is not served on plastic and the tablecloth and napkins are not made of paper!

Sorry to nit-pick but Amtrak dining cars use cloth napkins.

I'm fine with the paper tablecloths and the plastic plates. What I really hope for is "real" coffee mugs.

No need to apologize - you are right! I guess its the plastic "dinnerware" that really sends me over the edge... hboy:

 

[railiner]

One big difference between then and now...the size of the staff. The old standard 48 seat diners would often carry a steward in charge, 4 or more waiters, a chef, and 3 or more assistants. They would often fill a 12 man dormitory car. There is no way the present staff of an LSA with one or two SA's and a chef with maybe an assistant can prepare the kind of food and offer a comparable level of service in a 60 plus seat diner.

 

[BobWeaver]

No need to apologize - you are right! I guess its the plastic "dinnerware" that really sends me over the edge... hboy:

At least one can eat with a real knife. The airlines...not so much.

 

[Anderson]

Honestly, there's a nasty feedback loop at work here, too: A "full" kitchen isn't going to incur much of a loss if that kitchen is also catering to a full diner (as in, 48 seats in the diner and another 32 in the lounge). Let's also not forget that Amtrak is using the same diners those menus were produced on for their single level LD trains; the main problem is getting food out into the lounge.

I'm wondering...if Amtrak turned the diners around (that is, put the kitchen on the sleeper end of the diner), would it be practical to start some limited diner seating in the lounge next door? i.e. Are diner capacities more limited by space in the kitchen or by space in the seating area? I know that at least in theory, this is supposed to be an option on the Superliner diners (that's why you have diner-style seating on the diner end of the lounge/cafe car).

Back to the topic at hand: You can do a loss leader that doesn't lose as much money if you can increase turnover. On a lot of LD trains, you'll see one diner catering to 3-4 sleepers as well as interested coach pax...or you'll see two diners working with 6 or 7 sleepers and the coach pax. I am wondering if Amtrak doesn't have a setup problem that some reworking couldn't solve once they have the demand to match it...though they might have to go to a system of longer blocks for dining rather than the current 15-minute mini-blocks. I know that the Aussies used a system of three diner seatings on their LD trains to a good deal of success...is the 15-minute system possibly causing a jam here?

 

[jis]

No need to apologize - you are right! I guess its the plastic "dinnerware" that really sends me over the edge... hboy:

At least one can eat with a real knife. The airlines...not so much.

?? I have used real knives for food on international business class on more than one airline, on flights with trip times equivalent to Amtrak trains'.

 

[como]

This is an interesting thread. But remember that many people riding trains in the 1940's did not experience fine food in the diner. My parents grew up in Alabama, rode in segregated cars, and ate food that they brought from home. If they ate in a dining car they were required to sit in a section that was curtained off from other passengers.

 

[dlagrua]

On a train which had both coaches and sleepers there was not always a separate dining car for each class of service. More likely to have separate lounge cars.

I never said that they had separate dining cars. My point is that dining on trains back then was very expensive and attracted mainly business and upscale clientele that could afford it. If you adjusted the dinner prices to todays levels, a meal as they served back then for 2 would easily cost $80-$100. Yes the coach audience dined there also, but I would say not as much as the sleeper or first class passenger did.

As for separate dining cars; as far as I know only the Amtrak Autotrain maintains separate dining cars for coach and sleeper passengers today. I believe that coach passengers are served on picnic plastic plates and are offered a reduced menu.

 

[tp49]

No need to apologize - you are right! I guess its the plastic "dinnerware" that really sends me over the edge... hboy:

At least one can eat with a real knife. The airlines...not so much.

?? I have used real knives for food on international business class on more than one airline, on flights with trip times equivalent to Amtrak trains'.

I used real silverware on an international flight in economy yesterday.

 

[Tumbleweed]

This is an interesting thread. But remember that many people riding trains in the 1940's did not experience fine food in the diner. My parents grew up in Alabama, rode in segregated cars, and ate food that they brought from home. If they ate in a dining car they were required to sit in a section that was curtained off from other passengers.

A sad time in our history, indeed......

 

[I always rode the Southern]

My earliest memories are of riding from about 1949 on(coach), and I still can remember the sights and sounds of the dinner, the impressive uniforms of the staff and....omg, the food. As a kid, I was most impressed with those huge club sandwiches, BLT's, perfect scrambled eggs, and the magnificient warm apple pie with cheddar cheese. My family often teased me as I made a habit of making new friends and sitting with other passengers, or trainmen, who happened to bring plenty of food or snacks they were happy to share with the talkative 5 yr. old who asked zillions of questions about the train or where they were going. Hey.........these were long trips, what else was a 5/6/7 yr. old supposed to do to pass the time!!

 

[zepherdude]

This is an interesting thread. But remember that many people riding trains in the 1940's did not experience fine food in the diner. My parents grew up in Alabama, rode in segregated cars, and ate food that they brought from home. If they ate in a dining car they were required to sit in a section that was curtained off from other passengers.

Yes, I was on a train once and saw that, there were two tables with curtains and those were by the kitchen that was blazing hot, I remember asking about the curtain and who sat there. All I was told is "not us". That was on the Illinois Central in the late 1950s. As the 1960s approached, I read what the curtain was about and also read the Rail Road discontinued the separate seating and people sat together. The train went through some of the south to get to Jacksonville. I grew up in St. Louis and never really experienced the issues of segregated areas. These issues were not discussed at home, except my grandmother who was quite vocal. What can I say, she was a product of that type of thinking in the 1900-1940s.

 

[MrFSS]

This is an interesting thread. But remember that many people riding trains in the 1940's did not experience fine food in the diner. My parents grew up in Alabama, rode in segregated cars, and ate food that they brought from home. If they ate in a dining car they were required to sit in a section that was curtained off from other passengers.

Yes, I was on a train once and saw that, there were two tables with curtains and those were by the kitchen that was blazing hot, I remember asking about the curtain and who sat there. All I was told is "not us". That was on the Illinois Central in the late 1950s. As the 1960s approached, I read what the curtain was about and also read the Rail Road discontinued the separate seating and people sat together. The train went through some of the south to get to Jacksonville. I grew up in St. Louis and never really experienced the issues of segregated areas. These issues were not discussed at home, except my grandmother who was quite vocal. What can I say, she was a product of that type of thinking in the 1900-1940s.

I made the trip by train (PRR) between Chicago and Louisville in the 40's and 50's probably 30-40 times. I can remember when the train coming south stopped in Jefersonville, IN (last stop before crossing the Ohio River) the conductor came through and MADE all the African American folks to move to the last car of the train. Also, Louisville Union Station had very clearly marked segregated rest rooms and lunch rooms.

 

[Paul Marshall]

I am so thankful that times have changed and that some day in America, everyone will have equal rights. Hate last for a long time and I am now 62 and I see a little hate dying off a little bit at a time. It is amazing how the republicans have held a grudge for the past four years and now they realize they cannot fight progress and need to get over themselves and start working for a cure and not a hate. Now I live in Oklahoma where the state has now passed an end to afirmitive action. Did people not read this bill before they voted. OMG, Really, how far backwards can we go. but Oklahoma passed the open carry gun law. I have to get out of this state. Thanks for letting me share, I hope to see all of you on the train soon.

Paul

 

[EMDF9A]

I have very fond memories of the diner on the North Coast Limited. I was too small to get a "Great Big Baked Potato" all to myself, so Mother got one & split it between my brother and I.

I am sure most of you are familiar with William McKenzie's wonderful history of NP dining car operations (and great NP recipes, including the famous fruit cake) "Dining Car Line to the Pacific" Minnesota Historical Society Press, 1990. If you are not, see if your library has a copy or pick one up from Amazon & try some of the authentic recipes. and as you make them, remember that all of these were made on stoves & ovens that were fired by PRESTO logs!

David

Seattle

 

[Shortline]

I am so thankful that times have changed and that some day in America, everyone will have equal rights. Hate last for a long time and I am now 62 and I see a little hate dying off a little bit at a time. It is amazing how the republicans have held a grudge for the past four years and now they realize they cannot fight progress and need to get over themselves and start working for a cure and not a hate. Now I live in Oklahoma where the state has now passed an end to afirmitive action. Did people not read this bill before they voted. OMG, Really, how far backwards can we go. but Oklahoma passed the open carry gun law. I have to get out of this state. Thanks for letting me share, I hope to see all of you on the train soon.

Paul

I read it. You will be missed. But, I do agree, it's good things have changed to the point we no longer need the law.