CONO crew pulled out of service ????

[Guest]

Received a call yesterday that the CONO operating crew (Thursday night Chicago departure) was pulled out of service south of memphis. A 3' 59" late arrival into New Orleans Friday evening would indicate something took place en route. Anybody on board or have any additional info?

 

[Partyman]

Received a call yesterday that the CONO operating crew (Thursday night Chicago departure) was pulled out of service south of memphis. A 3' 59" late arrival into New Orleans Friday evening would indicate something took place en route. Anybody on board or have any additional info?

That is a very good question. We were on that train and when we first stopped just south of Memphis, they made the announcement that we would be on a siding for a few minutes waiting for a freight train to pass.

After about 45 minutes, during which a freight train didn't come by, Another announcement was made that there had been a rules infraction by the crew. They also said another crew was being brought out.

About one and a half hours later, another announcement was made that canadian national representative had just showed up and was trying to resolve the issue. He also said the conductor was coming around to answer any questions.

About 20 minutes later another announcement that there had been a rules violation out here, but nothing serious. We were waiting on a crew from Memphis and Greenwood, MS. He also said until they get here, the canadian national representative, wouldn't let the train move.

About five minutes later the conductor said this crew was being pulled out of service and until they got here, we couldn't move. Finally got moving about 11:30, roughly 4 hours late.

The most frustrating part was, we never really got any kind of answer about was going on. Several of the passengers in our car asked the new crew was had happened and for estimates on arrival times. They were borderline rude and got kind of nasty. I am not judging all train travel by this, but at least some intel goes a long way.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Hmmmmm.....wonder if they were imbibing?

 

[Partyman]

I am not a regular rider so I was wondering. Would it do any good to call Amtrak customer service and try to get some compensation or do they do that? I am not looking for something for nothing, but the whole situation was confusing.

 

[Steve4031]

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum infraction that could cause a crew to be pulled from service?

 

[AlanB]

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum infraction that could cause a crew to be pulled from service?

Probably speeding or failure to slow down for a speed restriction or slow order.

 

[dlagrua]

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum infraction that could cause a crew to be pulled from service?

Probably speeding or failure to slow down for a speed restriction or slow order.

Are you saying that Amtrak can pull the entire crew or just the two man crew in the engine? If speed restrictions were not followed the engineer, second engineer and conductor have a resposibility to monitor it but what about the chef? He should only be pulled for cooking some bad Lasagna.

 

[AlanB]

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum infraction that could cause a crew to be pulled from service?

Probably speeding or failure to slow down for a speed restriction or slow order.

Are you saying that Amtrak can pull the entire crew or just the two man crew in the engine? If speed restrictions were not followed the engineer, second engineer and conductor have a resposibility to monitor it but what about the chef? He should only be pulled for cooking some bad Lasagna.

Only the operating crew would be pulled, not the on board service crew. And Amtrak isn't doing the pulling in this case, the host RR ordered that the crew be taken out of service. That leaves Amtrak with no recourse but to bring in a new crew. And depending on the rules infraction, the host RR could ban that crew from ever operating on their tracks again, at least as I understand things.

Now if it was for speeding, I'm not sure just what the repercussions might be for the conductor, as short of excessive speeding it would be rather hard for a conductor to know that the engineer was 10 miles over the limit for example. But if they went through an area with a restricted speed due to a slow order at the normal track speed, then the conductor would also be held responsible since he/she should have noted that the engineer didn't slow down as they approached the area. And in fact, the conductor is required by the rules to warn the engineer about the slow order.

 

[Trogdor]

There are many different kinds of rule violations. Speeding (doesn't happen too often, from what I can tell), running a red signal, not getting proper authorization through a work zone, running through a banner test, failing to stop and inspect the train when a trackside detector is silent, etc.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Several of the passengers in our car asked the new crew was had happened and for estimates on arrival times. They were borderline rude and got kind of nasty.

We have a right to know what is going on. they have no right to get rude or nasty with us. I don't care if they get tired of the questions. Answer them right the first time or make a announcement. People want to know why the hell they are sitting for 4 hours going no where. Amtrak needs to retrain 90% of there crews in the art of manners.

 

[had8ley]

Several of the passengers in our car asked the new crew was had happened and for estimates on arrival times. They were borderline rude and got kind of nasty.

We have a right to know what is going on. they have no right to get rude or nasty with us. I don't care if they get tired of the questions. Answer them right the first time or make a announcement. People want to know why the hell they are sitting for 4 hours going no where. Amtrak needs to retrain 90% of there crews in the art of manners.

Charm school would be overloaded if Amtrak ever signed up those in need...

 

[AlanB]

Several of the passengers in our car asked the new crew was had happened and for estimates on arrival times. They were borderline rude and got kind of nasty.

We have a right to know what is going on. they have no right to get rude or nasty with us. I don't care if they get tired of the questions. Answer them right the first time or make a announcement. People want to know why the hell they are sitting for 4 hours going no where. Amtrak needs to retrain 90% of there crews in the art of manners.

Actually, I'm sorry to say that you don't have a right to know what's going on. You brought at ticket to go from point A to point B, nothing more. No place in the legal terms does it say that Amtrak must tell you what's going on every time the train stops. And in fact, there are times like when someone just got hit by the train that the crew isn't supposed to tell you exactly what happened. They have specific instructions on what to say and not to say for certain things like that.

Yes, it's best if the crew does say something and tries their best to give an estimate of when the train will be moving again. But they don't actually have to say things like, "Oh, the engineer just ran a red light" or "We just hit and killed someone and body parts are lying scattered all around the train."

 

[AlanB]

Charm school would be overloaded if Amtrak ever signed up those in need...

While not denying that there is still some dead wood out there, frankly I've been seeing some general improvement in the conductors over the last year or so. I just had a fabulous conductor last Tuesday on Acela. He was outstanding, made all the required announcements and as he lifted each ticket in the first class car, he made it a point to actually look at each ticket.

He'd then say things like "Your ticket looks perfect Alan. Thank you. Enjoy your trip." or "Everything looks in order Alan. Thank you for riding with us today." But he made it a point to address each person by using their first name by reading it off the ticket as he pulled it.

 

[Steve4031]

Thanks for the explanation. Obviously, these "minimum" infractions are all pretty serious in that they could lead to some sort of life threatening accident. Though I agree that passengers are not entitled to know everything, after hearing announcements abou a rules infraction, I would be curious.

Possible, there might be legal reasons why no clarifications were made. Since these are union employees, there must be some sort of due process. Putting to much information out there might not hep their case.

 

[Ryan]

running through a banner test,

What's that?

Several of the passengers in our car asked the new crew was had happened and for estimates on arrival times. They were borderline rude and got kind of nasty.

We have a right to know what is going on. they have no right to get rude or nasty with us. I don't care if they get tired of the questions. Answer them right the first time or make a announcement. People want to know why the hell they are sitting for 4 hours going no where. Amtrak needs to retrain 90% of there crews in the art of manners.

In addition to Alan's point about what information you have a right to expect, I can also see it from the crew's perspective. They've just been caught doing something wrong (and the conductor that you're talking to may have had nothing at all to do with the infraction), and are looking at getting some pretty serious disciplinary action taken against them (I'd imagine if CN says "That crew isn't welcome on our railroad" that'd be one heck of a life altering event), and the last thing that they want to do is explain themselves to a bunch of passengers that probably wouldn't understand what they were talking about anyways. I can see getting a little testy in that situation and be willing to cut them some slack.

 

[jb64]

I am not a regular rider so I was wondering. Would it do any good to call Amtrak customer service and try to get some compensation or do they do that? I am not looking for something for nothing, but the whole situation was confusing.

If you think there was something that could have been done better, I would call customer service and let them know. An organization cannot improve if it doesn't know what to improve, so feedback is always helpful. Customer service will decide if it warrants a credit voucher, or not.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Since when does "you could have done better" constitute compensation? I understand "they did poorly" but to say "it was adequate but I think theres room for improvement" does NOT entitle you to a fifty buck voucher every time you call.

Truth is you are raising fares for the rest of us.

 

[jb64]

I didn't say that "could have done better equals compensation". I specifically said that was for customer service to decide.

My point is that feedback is important in any industry. If there was a way for Amtrak to handle the communications better, I would think they would want to know.

Truth is performance improvement leads to a stronger, more valuable organization.

 

[had8ley]

Charm school would be overloaded if Amtrak ever signed up those in need...

While not denying that there is still some dead wood out there, frankly I've been seeing some general improvement in the conductors over the last year or so. I just had a fabulous conductor last Tuesday on Acela. He was outstanding, made all the required announcements and as he lifted each ticket in the first class car, he made it a point to actually look at each ticket.

He'd then say things like "Your ticket looks perfect Alan. Thank you. Enjoy your trip." or "Everything looks in order Alan. Thank you for riding with us today." But he made it a point to address each person by using their first name by reading it off the ticket as he pulled it.

I understand your point Alan but the need is there. We still have a conductor on the Crescent that bulls his way onto the Crescent in Atlanta~throws his giant suit case on one table of the lounge car; sits at another table; gets his A/C to sit at another table and demands the LSA listen to his unfunny stories at another table. Half the lounge is occupied basically by one baffoon who was a baggage handler at one time in his Amtrak career.Pleasantness and professionalism are 85 cent words he doesn't know how to pronounce let alone spell. I'd be afraid to hand him a switch list for fear he'd come back with the engine in the middle! You lucked out; we're not doing so well on this end.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Wonder if he's one of those transplanted Yankee Carpetbaggers that graduated from Charm school up there and moved down South to help civilize those "hicks" in the South! :lol:

Unfortunately you run into these power tripping Lounge Hogs all over, Ive seen it on every LD train Ive ridden and as most of us know it's even worse on a Single Level Train with the inadequate lounge/cafes or a Superliner when there's no SSL or Diner and a CCC is substituted! :help:

 

[rrdude]

Since when does "you could have done better" constitute compensation? I understand "they did poorly" but to say "it was adequate but I think theres room for improvement" does NOT entitle you to a fifty buck voucher every time you call.

Truth is you are raising fares for the rest of us.

Disagree, what's really raising fares for the rest of us is SHODDY SERVICE and POOR EMPLOYEE ATTITUDES/TRAINING. There are many good Amtrak employees, but there are also many situations where rude, uncaring, and downright nasty employees turn what was supposed to be a "rail adventure" into a nightmare for Mr. & Mrs. John Q Traveling Public and kids.

Now I know that host railroads, weather, and equipment play a huge role, in many of the delays, but those are many times "out of Amtrak's control".

Polite customer service is not. It is 100% under Amtrak's control. 100%.

It doesn't matter that the employee is on day 5 out of a 6 day turn, doesn't feel well, and his wife just left him. Don't take the run if you aren't going to provide SUPERIOR customer service.

And, and this is the worst part, it's totally "Fixable". There are dozens of corporations that specialize in training proper customer service, what Amtrak needs to do is look at "what it would cost" to hire these firms on a permanent basis, vs. "how much it could potentially reduce customer complaints".

Marketing 101 tells us that an unhappy customer tells many, many, many people. And that it cost FAR MORE to get a NEW customer, than it does to retain a current one.

Starts at the top, Joe, are you listening?

 

[had8ley]

Jim~ the sad part is his A/C is a female with an Afro so big she has to hold her hat while getting down to place the step box. This, in itself, is a safety hazard. Late last year we were getting ready to depart Meridian after the crew change on # 20 and her hat fell off her head and onto the track under the sleeper(she stayed on the rear to make the running brake test). It was within arms reach but no...she starts calling the engineer, the conductor and the dispatcher wanting to BLUE FLAG a first class pax train in order to retrieve her hat hboy: For those that don't know a blue flag is ONLY for the protection of mechanical forces and can only be placed on and taken off a train, engine or car by same. An operating crew has to obey a blue flag but cannot use same. Anyway, I heard her tell the engineer not to move so I reached down and retrieved her hat. You would have thought I had nuked NYP from her reaction. We still left ten minutes late because of this charmer. Little did she realize that the dispatcher could have sent a rules examiner to pull her out of service for such nonsense...and the beat goes on

 

[dlagrua]

Charm school would be overloaded if Amtrak ever signed up those in need...

While not denying that there is still some dead wood out there, frankly I've been seeing some general improvement in the conductors over the last year or so. I just had a fabulous conductor last Tuesday on Acela. He was outstanding, made all the required announcements and as he lifted each ticket in the first class car, he made it a point to actually look at each ticket.

He'd then say things like "Your ticket looks perfect Alan. Thank you. Enjoy your trip." or "Everything looks in order Alan. Thank you for riding with us today." But he made it a point to address each person by using their first name by reading it off the ticket as he pulled it.

I understand your point Alan but the need is there. We still have a conductor on the Crescent that bulls his way onto the Crescent in Atlanta~throws his giant suit case on one table of the lounge car; sits at another table; gets his A/C to sit at another table and demands the LSA listen to his unfunny stories at another table. Half the lounge is occupied basically by one baffoon who was a baggage handler at one time in his Amtrak career.Pleasantness and professionalism are 85 cent words he doesn't know how to pronounce let alone spell. I'd be afraid to hand him a switch list for fear he'd come back with the engine in the middle! You lucked out; we're not doing so well on this end.

True and I might add that Amtrak workers are OUR employees. It is our tax dollars that pay their salary and we also pay for the cost of a ticket. As such it is not unreasonable to expect politeness, courtesy and professional service from the entire Amtrak crew at all times.

Getting back to the CONO incident, unfair as it may seem, I must agree with Allan that the conductor bears equal responsibity if the train is not following the rules of safe operation that are in force at that time. The conductor, engineer and members of the engine Crew share responsibility for the safe and efficient operation of the train and for the proper application of these rules and procedures. The conductor is the manager of the train and bears responsibilty for other operations including the backward movement of the train into a station and monitoring positions of switches and trackside signls. The conductor is also the supervisor of the on board service crew and must see to it that those functions are carried out properly as well.

Its not a hard job when everything goes well (most of the time) but the conductor can be the first one to blame when things don't. Its the same with an orchestra and a sports team. When it gives a bad performance, the conductor or the coach takes the blame.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

 

[had8ley]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

I can understand your position as a pax completely... however....if the crew makes the slightest mis-cue in announcing that they have violated a rule/s then they can hang themselves. It's kinda like when you were a kid and your momma told you not to go to Sallys and you spent the whole day with her~ you're busting at the seams when you get home but don't need to tell anyone. I've defended men in investigations that wished they had sewn their lips shut at the site of a rules infraction.Granted, a short announcement to the effect that a new crew is on its way to relieve the present crew is not unwarranted.I just don't think the T&E crew would want to answer the same question 200 times, "Why are you being relieved?"