Current state of Amtrak's diners

[JSmith]

It's been a while since I was on any long-distance train. A friend of mine was talking about the Empire Builder and said that it is the only Amtrak route left that has an on-board kitchen. I vaguely remember that the Empire Service retained a full service kitchen after other trains had gone over to more of a prepackaged and reheated model.

Is this still the case? Are the diners on other trains besides the Empire Builder still just cooking prepacked food, whereas the crew of the Empire Builder is cooking from scratch?

Just curious, been a bit out of the train loop for a few years.

 

[Shortline]

I think the food is more or less the same (meaning, not much at all from scratch really) on all the trains, the difference between the Empire Builder and Coast Startlight and the other trains, is their "enhanced" diner uses real dishes vs the plastic picnic table ware used on other trains. I don't recal any difference between the food itself, on my last trip on the Empire Builder and the other long distance trains I've been on recently (Crescent, and multiple trips on the Texas Eagle)

 

[roadman3313]

Could someone expand on the different types of dining cars and how food is prepared? For reference my experience is mainly on Amtrak California which only has Cafe Cars. I ride the Coast Starlight a bit between Northern and Southern California and have been on the California Zephyr a few times between the Bay Area and Reno.

From what I gather the CZ is more like a typical LD train whereas the CS has the "real china" and the like. Is there any difference in the food or how it is prepared? I know I had the both things on both trains. Last time I was on the CZ there was a heating issue they said so the meatballs I ate were half cold and half warm. The pasta was a bit crunchy. They did warm up my dessert brownie cake which made it taste 10x better than the cold ones I received before on the CS. It was delivered to my room wrapped in foil all nice and warm. Literally melted in your mouth! I assume this was a personal decision to warm it up made by the chef or food preparer.

I may have a good foundation on Amtrak here in the West but any insight onto other routes would be most appreciated in terms of dining (or general differences) as well!

Basically a refreshed version of "Amtrak Dining Car 101 (for Dummies)" 2013 Edition would be nice

 

[railiner]

Whatever they serve up nowadays, due to the very limited staff, (I believe one Chef, and one Food Specialist in the Superliner galley), there can't be much cooking from scratch to feed a train.

 

[Henry Kisor]

I believe that most if not all Amtrak LD trains use the "sous vide" method of cooking, in which meats and vegetables are cooked slowly at a precise temperature for a precise time, then instantly packaged in plastic and refrigerated for transport to the commissaries, then to the trains. Each meal is reheated in a convection oven (not microwave) in the diner galley, then served to the customer. When done right, the result is uniformly tasty.

The "sous vide" process was invented in France, and many restaurants there (as well as in the U.S.) use the technique for many dishes, primarily because it's easier to get uniform results.

As for Amtrak, it seems that in recent years there have been far fewer complaints about poor quality in the diner. The upside for Amtrak is that fewer staff are required in the diner. There of course can be problems. Occasionally Aramark (which I believe still provides the sous-vide viands) can screw up, and occasionally a chef can screw up, and occasionally an oven can go on the blink. Occasionally there can be a service attendant from hell. But I believe that things are a lot better than they were a few years ago.

On the LD trains I took last year, there was one chef and one food specialist in the galley, and a lead service attendant and service attendant upstairs. This seemed to suffice for most runs, but on one Zephyr run a huge travel group boarded at Emeryville for Reno, and of course they all wanted lunch at the same time. A couple of sleeper attendants were pressed into service as waiters to help handle the rush. Despite the madhouse it all worked out very well and everyone who wanted lunch got fed eventually. Only downside was the travel group cleaned the dining car out of the cabernet I prefer and there was no more all the way to Chicago.

I'm not, however, sure about how things are done on the Coast Starlight. Maybe a combination of sous-vide and made-from-scratch.

 

[AlanB]

The EB & the Auto Train still have a few more "cooked to order" items by comparison to the rest of the long distance trains. When SDS (Simplified Dining Service) first came out several years ago, save those two trains, all other trains cooked nothing to order. It was all pre-plated and simply warmed in a convection oven. That trend has been reversed and steaks, eggs, and a few other things are now once again cooked to order on all trains save the Cardinal which has no dining car.

Staffing levels vary based upon pre-defined booking criteria at selected points prior to departure. This is just an example, not the actual numbers: Minimum is 1 cook, 1 LSA, 1 SA. If one month before departure 50% of all sleepers are sold and 40% of coach is sold, then Amtrak will add an SA to the train. At the two week mark, if 75% of sleepers are sold and 55% of coach, Amtrak will add an extra cook. Again, these are not the real numbers, I don't have them and frankly I think that Amtrak modifies them over time with more and more experience on what is needed.

On trains that use real glassware, I believe that the assistant cook is required, since he/she is also the dishwasher. The cook can cook and run the dishwasher too; so they must add back the assistant no matter what. The EB & AT are also exempt from the normal staffing rules and in fact still use the "fill up the diner all at once" seating methods, instead of the staggered seating methods that all other LD's use.

 

[Anderson]

I've noticed that the Cap seems to be moving back to the "fill up the diner at one go" method. It's still somewhat staggered (seatings more or less hourly), but not in the way it once was (seatings every half-hour on and off). I'm thinking that this is at least in part due to the shift to glassware/china (since as noted, it adds a cook) and probably due to the relatively high load factors involved (which seem to imply a fairly stable flow of traffic on the train).

I also suspect that the numbers on staffing levels vary not only on load factors, but also on the train. Some trains just behave differently because of their markets, timing, etc., and I suspect you may get a little more coach business in the diner on the longer trains, especially at breakfast/lunch (something like this was strongly implied on the LSL as well when that PIP came out).

 

[Old MM]

if you're going on the EB, Roadman, the steak will be cooked to order, I recall it did take a bit of time for them to be well done.

 

[TVRM610]

It all depends on your definition of the word "kitchen."

The Capitol Limited, Auto Train, Empire Builder, and Coast Starlight use real china, linen table cloths, and glassware.

Different menu items are naturally prepared different ways. The Pasta dishes, in my opinion suffer the most from the convection oven process, many times they taste like tv dinners, but sometimes they would pass for a "quick service" pasta chain like Fazollis.

The eggs are scrambled and cooked to order (real eggs, not powdered), I'm not sure about the omlette, but I think they are cooked to order as well (anyone know?).

The menu describes the pancakes as "cooked to order".

For Lunch... I think everything is reheated... although the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder serve a grilled cheese that is out of this world, but i have no idea how it is prepared. There are little details the chef can add.. for instance "grilling" or warming the hamburger buns so they are warm and toasted.

For Dinner...

Steaks are cooked to order.

The menu describes the Tilapia as "Griddle Seared Cooked to Order"

Also the Crab Cakes are grilled on board as well.. since they always have a different level of crispy-ness to them.

I've been on lots of Long Distance trains lately and trust me.. we have it pretty good right now. WAYYYY better than the Bob Evans Breakfast Scramble Days!

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

It all depends on your definition of the word "kitchen."
The Capitol Limited, Auto Train, Empire Builder, and Coast Starlight use real china, linen table cloths, and glassware.

Different menu items are naturally prepared different ways. The Pasta dishes, in my opinion suffer the most from the convection oven process, many times they taste like tv dinners, but sometimes they would pass for a "quick service" pasta chain like Fazollis.

The eggs are scrambled and cooked to order (real eggs, not powdered), I'm not sure about the omlette, but I think they are cooked to order as well (anyone know?).

The menu describes the pancakes as "cooked to order".

For Lunch... I think everything is reheated... although the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder serve a grilled cheese that is out of this world, but i have no idea how it is prepared. There are little details the chef can add.. for instance "grilling" or warming the hamburger buns so they are warm and toasted.

For Dinner...

Steaks are cooked to order.

The menu describes the Tilapia as "Griddle Seared Cooked to Order"

Also the Crab Cakes are grilled on board as well.. since they always have a different level of crispy-ness to them.

I've been on lots of Long Distance trains lately and trust me.. we have it pretty good right now. WAYYYY better than the Bob Evans Breakfast Scramble Days!

Oddly enough I actually liked the Bob Evans Scrambler, guess I'm in the minority on that one.

 

[BCL]

We took the Coast Starlight last weekend and had breakfast. Our plates were actually Corelle, which is really just layered tempered glass. It looks a bit like China, and the thickness of the plates they used is thicker than normal consumer grade that I have at home. The mugs are also Corelle brand, but those are earthenware. The jam and half and half were placed on the little plastic dishes in the same white Amtrak pattern.

I'd previously taken the CS, and when we had breakfast it was served on plastic that looks a bit like real China. My kid couldn't finish and I asked for it to go. They just wrapped up the plate in foil since they were out of containers. It didn't survive the trip home; the thing just cracked after I tried to stuff it in our diaper bag.

I'd actually seen the Amtrak plastic plates on a visit to the California State Railroad Museum. They had a set of the plastic stuff and were noting how it looked like real porcelain at first glance. It wasn't in their displays. They were allowing visitors to handle them. I asked about it on a later visit, and was told that they eventually broke.

As far as I can tell, this is the plastic version:

I'm not sure how this was obtained, but here's an Amtrak Corelle plate that's for sale on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORELLE-CORNING-AMTRAK-DINNER-PLATE-BRAND-NEW-HARD-TO-FIND-FREE-USA-SHIPPING-/370727286199

I'd link the photo inline, but it's way too big.

 

[EMDF9A]

On my recent CS trip this past weekend, I ate all five meals. Three in the diner (Lunch day one, Breakfast & Dinner day 2) and two in the PPC (The rest). Lunch in the diner was on a plastic plate (Veggie burger) but my companions who had side salads had it on correlle and the glassware was all real. Dinner in the PPC was all correlle and glass. Breakfast in the diner was on plastic (But real glassware). Lunch in the PPC was in the large plastic bowl. The ads for the PPC meal service say it is supposed to all be "china" (Correlle) but my EXCELLENT PPC attendant Maureen said they use the disposables on the Mac & Cheese because the cheese sauce dries on the dirty plates and it takes too long to wash them. (As a Foodservice pro, I can understand this logic) And finally my second day dinner in the diner was all correlle/glassware.

 

[Henry Kisor]

I'm not certain about this, but I think the individual steaks (and maybe other entrees) may be partially cooked with the sous-vide method, then removed from their plastic and then finished to order on the grill. It's been a while since I've been in a Superliner galley.

 

[NETrainfan]

Has anyone mentioned the cost factor of corelle vs plastic?

 

[BCL]

Anyone know if the plastic is reused? It looked to be polystyrene and didn't seem like it could withstand much washing.

 

[OBS]

Anyone know if the plastic is reused? It looked to be polystyrene and didn't seem like it could withstand much washing.

Normally, the plastic is just discarded.

 

[EMDF9A]

Has anyone mentioned the cost factor of corelle vs plastic?

I cant recall the exact thread/discussion, but I do recall that in the last couple years that discussion has been had here. If someone with more/better information can correct me, please do... But as I recall, the plastic is not recyclable so it has actually increased the overall cost to AMTRAK, but because of how the accounting is done, it appears that returning a third crew member to the kitchen to act as cooks assistant/dishwasher is still more expensive. (How I WISH the would bite the bullet on this ad bring back the third.)

 

[leemell]

Interesting fact about Corelle -- Corning originally developed this materiel for NASA atmospheric reentry -- for Apollo I think. The stuff is relatively inexpensive and very tough compared to real china. My wife and I have a set that was bought in 1990 that we still have in everyday service with any breakage, chips or much sign of wear, unlike the rest of our tableware..

 

[BCL]

Interesting fact about Corelle -- Corning originally developed this materiel for NASA atmospheric reentry -- for Apollo I think. The stuff is relatively inexpensive and very tough compared to real china. My wife and I have a set that was bought in 1990 that we still have in everyday service with any breakage, chips or much sign of wear, unlike the rest of our tableware..

I can say from experience that it can break, and when it does it can be dramatic. We have some usable pieces that are chipped - probably from being dropped. I've had some survive drops. Once I was trying to push a bowl a few inches and it just kept on sliding. As in off the table, to the floor, and into lots of little pieces. When it breaks, it breaks into a combination of big pieces and little shards of glass. I bought them really cheap for the most part.

I remember I bought a set for use in my house. Later on I took a coworker as a roommate and he bought the exact same set.

 

[PaulM]

On a recent EB, CS, and two legs on the SWC round trip, the the vegetable medley on the EB and CS was far better than what I had been used to. It wasn't just the preparation, but a different product. I was hoping this was a system wide change. But apparently not; the SWC had the old unappetizing ones.

 

[AlanB]

Has anyone mentioned the cost factor of corelle vs plastic?

I cant recall the exact thread/discussion, but I do recall that in the last couple years that discussion has been had here. If someone with more/better information can correct me, please do... But as I recall, the plastic is not recyclable so it has actually increased the overall cost to AMTRAK, but because of how the accounting is done, it appears that returning a third crew member to the kitchen to act as cooks assistant/dishwasher is still more expensive. (How I WISH the would bite the bullet on this ad bring back the third.)

I did a rather extensive analysis in a topic here when Amtrak first came out with the SDS program on things that basically showed that Amtrak wasn't going to truly cut their food service losses with SDS. Fist and foremost, they suffered a dramatic loss of revenue because of SDS, since they were now serving less than half the number of people before SDS went in.

But other factors were the increased expense of buying those plastic plates and even more dramatically, the increased expenses to haul all the extra garbage now being generated. Trains on SDS were now dropping off 3 bags of garbage as compared to 1 bag for non-SDS trains.

The kicker in that was that garbage removal doesn't get charged to diner overhead. It's charged elsewhere in Amtrak's budget. So viola, cut the dishwasher/assistant cook position and they cut dining car expenses. Yea, Congressional mandate met! It didn't matter that Amtrak as a whole was still suffering the loss; they had successfully rearranged the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic, but at least Congress was happy because food service losses went down. Mission accomplished!

This is what happens when 500+ people with no clue about how to actually run a passenger Railroad try to micromanage said RR.

 

[Ispolkom]

I'm not certain about this, but I think the individual steaks (and maybe other entrees) may be partially cooked with the sous-vide method, then removed from their plastic and then finished to order on the grill. It's been a while since I've been in a Superliner galley.

That wouldn't surprise me. I recall reading an article (in the Atlantic Monthly, perhaps?) that claimed that the best way to cook a steak was to sous-vide it, then finish the outside with a blowtorch. Me, I'll stick to charcoal.

 

[fillyjonk]

Interesting fact about Corelle -- Corning originally developed this materiel for NASA atmospheric reentry -- for Apollo I think. The stuff is relatively inexpensive and very tough compared to real china. My wife and I have a set that was bought in 1990 that we still have in everyday service with any breakage, chips or much sign of wear, unlike the rest of our tableware..

I can say from experience that it can break, and when it does it can be dramatic. We have some usable pieces that are chipped - probably from being dropped. I've had some survive drops. Once I was trying to push a bowl a few inches and it just kept on sliding. As in off the table, to the floor, and into lots of little pieces. When it breaks, it breaks into a combination of big pieces and little shards of glass. I bought them really cheap for the most part.

I remember I bought a set for use in my house. Later on I took a coworker as a roommate and he bought the exact same set.

I once stupidly set a Corelle plate on one of the electric burners ("eyes," here in the South) and turned the burner on. (I thought I was turning on a different burner). The plate shattered quite spectacularly....I'm guessing the formulation they used to protect rockets on re-entry was quite different. (then again: my plates were close to 15 years old at that point, and had gone through many dishwasher cycles).

It took months to find and clean up all the shards. It was lucky I was not standing near the stove at the time.

Back on topic: the Sous-Vide method is used on the steaks on the TE? That explains why the last couple I've got, even though I asked for "medium rare," they were considerably closer to being leather than "medium rare" usually connotes. (The last couple meals I've had on the TE - December and January - were NOT as good as meals previously, even over summer 2012).

 

[BCL]

Interesting fact about Corelle -- Corning originally developed this materiel for NASA atmospheric reentry -- for Apollo I think. The stuff is relatively inexpensive and very tough compared to real china. My wife and I have a set that was bought in 1990 that we still have in everyday service with any breakage, chips or much sign of wear, unlike the rest of our tableware..

I can say from experience that it can break, and when it does it can be dramatic. We have some usable pieces that are chipped - probably from being dropped. I've had some survive drops. Once I was trying to push a bowl a few inches and it just kept on sliding. As in off the table, to the floor, and into lots of little pieces. When it breaks, it breaks into a combination of big pieces and little shards of glass. I bought them really cheap for the most part.

I remember I bought a set for use in my house. Later on I took a coworker as a roommate and he bought the exact same set.

I once stupidly set a Corelle plate on one of the electric burners ("eyes," here in the South) and turned the burner on. (I thought I was turning on a different burner). The plate shattered quite spectacularly....I'm guessing the formulation they used to protect rockets on re-entry was quite different. (then again: my plates were close to 15 years old at that point, and had gone through many dishwasher cycles).

It took months to find and clean up all the shards. It was lucky I was not standing near the stove at the time.

I'm pretty sure making it that tough would be way beyond anything needed for dinnerware. I could also swear that it says "Not for Stovetop Use" on the label, although I know people who had some from the 1970s where the label was far simpler. Back then if a piece broke you could actually send the pieces back for a free replacement. At today's prices (I've gotten them for as little as $1 open stock at their outlet stores) it wouldn't make any sense.

 

[leemell]

Interesting fact about Corelle -- Corning originally developed this materiel for NASA atmospheric reentry -- for Apollo I think. The stuff is relatively inexpensive and very tough compared to real china. My wife and I have a set that was bought in 1990 that we still have in everyday service with any breakage, chips or much sign of wear, unlike the rest of our tableware..

I can say from experience that it can break, and when it does it can be dramatic. We have some usable pieces that are chipped - probably from being dropped. I've had some survive drops. Once I was trying to push a bowl a few inches and it just kept on sliding. As in off the table, to the floor, and into lots of little pieces. When it breaks, it breaks into a combination of big pieces and little shards of glass. I bought them really cheap for the most part.

I remember I bought a set for use in my house. Later on I took a coworker as a roommate and he bought the exact same set.

I once stupidly set a Corelle plate on one of the electric burners ("eyes," here in the South) and turned the burner on. (I thought I was turning on a different burner). The plate shattered quite spectacularly....I'm guessing the formulation they used to protect rockets on re-entry was quite different. (then again: my plates were close to 15 years old at that point, and had gone through many dishwasher cycles).

It took months to find and clean up all the shards. It was lucky I was not standing near the stove at the time.

I'm pretty sure making it that tough would be way beyond anything needed for dinnerware. I could also swear that it says "Not for Stovetop Use" on the label, although I know people who had some from the 1970s where the label was far simpler. Back then if a piece broke you could actually send the pieces back for a free replacement. At today's prices (I've gotten them for as little as $1 open stock at their outlet stores) it wouldn't make any sense.

It says "no stove top or boiler".