I'm trying to go back and find it, but there was a graphic that showed that the first 30 MPH speed limit sign was more than a 1/4 mile prior to the curve.
There is a speed limit warning sign more than a mile back from the start of the curve, and a speed limit sign at the beginning of the curve. But all that is more of ralfan interest, since a qualified Engineer should be able to operate a train safely even if one or more of those signs are missing.
The talk of the day is about PTC...
But isnt there an issue with the speed signs used by the railroad? If the engineer didn't see them, that indicates they're too small, or badly placed, or both. Same in Philadelphia.
When a highway goes from 75mph to 30mph, it is signed to hell and back. Maybe the railroads should do a better job with their signage?
Also, it makes no sense that if youre going to spend so much money redoing a track for passenger, you'd leave a 30mph bridge in 79mph territory, when the topology clearly allows for a direct route.
Critical difference is that engineers are required to be qualified on a given territory. This isn't like you or me driving an unfamiliar road and missing a sign; Railroad personnel would already be well aware of the upcoming speed restriction.
Absolutely! As Acela150 I am sure will remind us, like he did after the 188 accident, it is the business of the qualified crew (Engineer and Conductor) to know exactly where the train is and what operating restrictions are active at that point, and moreover what conditions they should prepare for that will apply ahead of them.
With reference to the NEC, it should be noted that the few speed limit signs that you see are really not what reflects the speed limit that is enforced, since there are five different classes of trains on the NEC, each with different set of speed limits. What reflects the speed limit is the section of track, the active signal aspect, the civil speed limit, if any, together with the class of the train.
The in cab signal display indicates the speed limit in force for the specific class of train based on information picked up by the train from the signal in force, track mounted transponders and radio messages from the ACSES system, with a fall back on the classic coded track circuit based cab signaling system.
At the time the 188 accident occurred, that area did not have the ACSES overlay active yet, and the cab signal system was not set up to reflect a speed limit of the curve. This was not unusual back then. Amtrak was then in the process of re-jigging the cab signal system towards reflecting such. That curve was not done yet in that direction mainly because it was believed (incorrectly) that a train could not accelerate to such high speeds by that point. That assumption was true with previous less performant equipment, but the Sprinters' acceleration capabilities changed the rules of the game. But that is all well documented history. Let us please not go through yet another cycle of that discussion here.
The bottom line is, if you are focused on speed limit signs you are mostly barking up the wrong tree and wasting your time and energy. The presence of a little sign is most likely not going to have much effect on the general loss of situational awareness, if that is what is determined to be the cause of this. Remember, there are other possibilities to consider like various possible modes of equipment failure too.
