Device Users Oblivious to Danger

[The Davy Crockett]

Smartphones may be smart, but sometimes they seem to make their users act like dumb zombies. :wacko:

From SFGate: Absorbed device users oblivious to danger

From the article:

A man standing on a crowded Muni train pulls out a .45-caliber pistol.

He raises the gun, pointing it across the aisle, before tucking it back against his side. He draws it out several more times, once using the hand holding the gun to wipe his nose. Dozens of passengers stand and sit just feet away - but none reacts.

Their eyes, focused on smartphones and tablets, don't lift until the gunman fires a bullet into the back of a San Francisco State student getting off the train.

Investigators say this scene was captured by a Muni camera on Sept. 23, the night Nikhom Thephakaysone, 30, allegedly killed 20-year-old Justin Valdez in an apparently random encounter.

 

[George Harris]

Read news articles from about the time, and it is not quite like this one says.

 

[jerichowhiskey]

I know the normal thing to do is to not make eye contact with anyone, but for there to have not one person even with a smartphone to look around, is simply amazing especially if someone was pulling out a gun.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Read news articles from about the time, and it is not quite like this one says.

What did you read?

From personal experience I tend to believe later reports more than ones immediately after an incident, as it usually takes the media a while to get their facts straight.

 

[SarahZ]

I have mixed thoughts on this one. I'm sure some of those people were phone zombies, but there's a chance a couple of them weren't.

For example, if I saw someone with a gun out of the corner of my eye, I'd probably look straight back down at my phone and pray they didn't notice me catching them. Even when I'm using my phone, I have really good peripheral vision, so I'm not totally tuned out.

Anyway, I'd try to figure out a way to call 911 (if I weren't within earshot) or text someone to call 911 rather than take on the person myself. I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would. I'd also try to snap a picture of them by pretending to look at Facebook or something. This is all speculation, though. People tend to panic/freeze. I don't want to be egotistical and say I wouldn't freeze myself. I came up with a lot of theories about what I'd do, but I don't know if I'd actually DO them.

So while I agree that everyone was probably on their phone, I'd imagine at least one or two of those people noticed but didn't want to confront the guy or just weren't sure what to do. I sure as heck wouldn't say anything to him, considering I'm not armed (and even if I were, it's a small, crowded space). Even if nobody was on their phone, who's to say this would have been prevented? Unarmed people aren't necessarily going to confront a guy with a gun. They're mostly there as survivors/witnesses, not vigilantes. Kudos to anyone who would confront him.

 

[John Bredin]

Isn't there an old meme from "Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" days of entire cars-full of (mostly) men on commuter trains reading the newspaper, so you can hardly see a face except for the conductor?

Not exactly the picture I was googling for, but close.

 

[SarahZ]

Isn't there an old meme from "Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" days of entire cars-full of (mostly) men on commuter trains reading the newspaper, so you can hardly see a face except for the conductor?

Not exactly the picture I was googling for, but close.

I love that picture.

Before smartphones were huge, I used to love pulling into an L station during rush hour. It always looked like a solid wall of books and newspapers, almost like a library shelf, because everyone had something to read. It was fun to check out what other people were reading.

 

[fairviewroad]

I have mixed thoughts on this one. I'm sure some of those people were phone zombies, but there's a chance a couple of them weren't.

For example, if I saw someone with a gun out of the corner of my eye, I'd probably look straight back down at my phone and pray they didn't notice me catching them. Even when I'm using my phone, I have really good peripheral vision, so I'm not totally tuned out.

Anyway, I'd try to figure out a way to call 911 (if I weren't within earshot) or text someone to call 911 rather than take on the person myself. I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would. I'd also try to snap a picture of them by pretending to look at Facebook or something. This is all speculation, though. People tend to panic/freeze. I don't want to be egotistical and say I wouldn't freeze myself. I came up with a lot of theories about what I'd do, but I don't know if I'd actually DO them.

So while I agree that everyone was probably on their phone, I'd imagine at least one or two of those people noticed but didn't want to confront the guy or just weren't sure what to do. I sure as heck wouldn't say anything to him, considering I'm not armed (and even if I were, it's a small, crowded space). Even if nobody was on their phone, who's to say this would have been prevented? Unarmed people aren't necessarily going to confront a guy with a gun. They're mostly there as survivors/witnesses, not vigilantes. Kudos to anyone who would confront him.

I agree with this. It's not clear from the article, and I don't know the MUNI system, but was this all happening underground or above ground?

If underground, then it's quite possible people were trying to call 911 and couldn't get through.

Another point: While the article describes other situations where inattention by smartphone/gadget users has CAUSED accidents/tragedies,

let's be clear that the people in this situation were NOT the ones engaging in dangerous behavior. That distinction belongs solely to the

murderer. Frankly this article comes across as a "blame the victim" type of analysis.

Walking in front of a train while reading your smartphone = Stupid.

Riding ON the train while reading your smartphone = Rational behavior.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I have mixed thoughts on this one. I'm sure some of those people were phone zombies, but there's a chance a couple of them weren't.

For example, if I saw someone with a gun out of the corner of my eye, I'd probably look straight back down at my phone and pray they didn't notice me catching them. Even when I'm using my phone, I have really good peripheral vision, so I'm not totally tuned out.

Anyway, I'd try to figure out a way to call 911 (if I weren't within earshot) or text someone to call 911 rather than take on the person myself. I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would. I'd also try to snap a picture of them by pretending to look at Facebook or something. This is all speculation, though. People tend to panic/freeze. I don't want to be egotistical and say I wouldn't freeze myself. I came up with a lot of theories about what I'd do, but I don't know if I'd actually DO them.

So while I agree that everyone was probably on their phone, I'd imagine at least one or two of those people noticed but didn't want to confront the guy or just weren't sure what to do. I sure as heck wouldn't say anything to him, considering I'm not armed (and even if I were, it's a small, crowded space). Even if nobody was on their phone, who's to say this would have been prevented? Unarmed people aren't necessarily going to confront a guy with a gun. They're mostly there as survivors/witnesses, not vigilantes. Kudos to anyone who would confront him.

My same thoughts.

 

[SarahZ]

MUNI is above ground. It's the bus and light rail system. BART is the subway.

On that note, I just read that the CTA is taking steps to increase phone/data reception in the underground portions of the L. Currently, as soon as you get below ground, you lose most, if not all, cell reception, depending on where you are.

 

[Blackwolf]

MUNI is above ground. It's the bus and light rail system. BART is the subway.

On that note, I just read that the CTA is taking steps to increase phone/data reception in the underground portions of the L. Currently, as soon as you get below ground, you lose most, if not all, cell reception, depending on where you are.

Not quite.

MUNI has about 10% or so of its light rail system underground along the Market Street line, and when the Central Subway is complete in a few years, it'll have even more underground. As for BART, yes they are underground too... One level beneath the MUNI lines along Market Street.

Also, BART has cell phone service in all of it's underground tunnels. The system is owned by BART and became rather infamous after it was intentionally turned off during the BART-shooting riots a few years ago so people could not use their cell phones, raising constitutionality questions about censorship and free speech rights.

 

[SarahZ]

Rats. I knew I'd screw that up. Thanks for the info!

 

[tp49]

However, the incident being referred to in this case occurred above ground on the M line between SF State and Balboa Park in the Oceanview neighborhood.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Have any of the 'doubters' of this story actually ever spent a decent amount of time riding MUNI's light rail in the last five or so years?

I have, and I could easily see this happening. Also, I sent this story to a family member who lives in the city and rides MUNI light rail on an almost daily basis and they did not doubt that this could happen.

Does that mean every train has this level of obliviousness? Obviously not, but there are so many 'techies' and 'space cadets' in SF that the possibility of this happening in a given section of a car is real, especially at night when folks have been at work all day or have been relaxing with dinner and drinks after work.

And let me requote one particular section of the article, with emphasis added, for all of you who act like you were there that night and witnessed what was caught on camera:

"These weren't concealed movements - the gun is very clear," said District Attorney George Gascón. "These people are in very close proximity with him, and nobody sees this. They're just so engrossed, texting and reading and whatnot. They're completely oblivious of their surroundings."

The reality is: Zoning out on one's device can easily make one very unaware of one's surroundings and so many people do it these days that the odds of this happening are real.

 

[AlanB]

I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would.

I would not suggest doing that, unless you were already stopped at a station with the doors open. Otherwise, pulling the cord leaves you trapped with the gunman and no way to escape. It also makes it much harder for the police to deal with the situation.

There are only a few situations where pulling the cord is a good idea, generally it is better to not pull the cord.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Having a Gun Pointed @ You is a Life Changing Situation! ( I know, it's happened to me Twice!)

As has been said, We Never Know How We'll React in Situations Like This Till They Actually Happen! This is why Disclaimers are Given on Travel Sites about Being Alert and Being Aware of your Surroundings when out in Public! Good Advice!

 

[SarahZ]

Davy - my point was that even if I appear "engrossed" in something, there's a good chance I can still see what's going on around me. Sometimes I'm pretending just so people leave me alone. It would be very convincing on camera, especially if I'm wearing sunglasses.

I'm not saying I was there or that I witnessed it; what I'm saying is that's a reporter's interpretation of what's going on and sounds heavily biased. I don't like their attitude that everyone with a smartphone is a sheep who doesn't notice anything. Even if everyone was completely blinded by their phone, they are NOT the reason that guy got shot. I don't appreciate blaming the witnesses and victims for something the gunman did.

Another point I was trying to make was that even if someone had seen him, what, exactly, are they supposed to do? Confront him? Risk their own life? The vehicle was moving, so it's not like they could escape and call 911. Even if they had seen him, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

 

[SarahZ]

I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would.

I would not suggest doing that, unless you were already stopped at a station with the doors open. Otherwise, pulling the cord leaves you trapped with the gunman and no way to escape. It also makes it much harder for the police to deal with the situation.

There are only a few situations where pulling the cord is a good idea, generally it is better to not pull the cord.

Yes, I agree. I should have amended that. Also, I didn't realize it would prevent the doors from opening.

 

[AlanB]

I admit that I'd worry that pulling on the emergency stop cord would make me a target. If I could do it without them seeing me, I would.

I would not suggest doing that, unless you were already stopped at a station with the doors open. Otherwise, pulling the cord leaves you trapped with the gunman and no way to escape. It also makes it much harder for the police to deal with the situation.

There are only a few situations where pulling the cord is a good idea, generally it is better to not pull the cord.

Yes, I agree. I should have amended that. Also, I didn't realize it would prevent the doors from opening.

Well pulling the cord wouldn't prevent the doors from opening; sorry if I gave you that impression. But it's still easier to run out of an open door, than to go through the needed steps to open the door in an emergency. And then one must contend with a bigger drop to the ground than if one is at a station.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

...especially if I'm wearing sunglasses.

Sunglasses at night while using your device? No wonder you wouldn't be paying attention to it. Either that, or well... ...we all know what we think someone in SF wearing sunglasses at night has been up to! :giggle:

I'm not saying I was there or that I witnessed it; what I'm saying is that's a reporter's interpretation of what's going on and sounds heavily biased.

It was not some reporter who said this, it was THE District Attorney for San Francisco! He is also the former Cheif of Police. Check out his website.

Another point I was trying to make was that even if someone had seen him, what, exactly, are they supposed to do? Confront him? Risk their own life? The vehicle was moving, so it's not like they could escape and call 911. Even if they had seen him, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

That is an entirely different matter, but unless you've seen the video, or been part of the criminal investigation - like the District Attorney - this is pure conjecture.

 

[SarahZ]

DAs can be biased too. ^_^

Sorry, just stirring the pot now.

I don't disagree that a lot of people turn into zombies when they're playing with their phone (or buried in a book like I usually am), but I still don't think it has any bearing on the actual case since the only person at-fault is the jerk with the gun. I'm sure the DA was just ranting, but it still hit a nerve with me.