Diesel fumes in sleeper

[fillyjonk]

I came home on 21 last night (BNL to MIN) and I don't know if it was that I was already starting with a migraine (I get super sensitive sense of smell as a symptom) or the air intake for the "increased ventilation to fight covid" was being polluted by the engine (right in front of my sleeper) but there was a *horrible* diesel exhaust smell that gave me a headache and upset stomach. I managed to sleep off the headache (luckily the attendant was around to make up my bed early) and it seemed like there was less stink this morning, but I wonder: have others noticed that lately? I was in room 6.

Coming up, I was in room 13 (downstairs). It was much quieter, steadier, and there was no diesel smell - but it was also clearly a newer Superliner car than the one I came back on (it had the touch-panel for the lights instead of the buttons, and the newer-style restrooms; the car I came back in was one of the old ones).

I traveled a little over the summer (at which point I think the "more ventilation" was in effect) and didn't notice a smell. Was it just my migraine, or does one sometimes just get unlucky and have to breathe diesel fumes occasionally now? Kinda wondering how many IQ points I lost this trip....though then again, I don't think leaded diesel exists any more

 

[Cal]

but it was also clearly a newer Superliner car than the one I came back on (it had the touch-panel for the lights instead of the buttons, and the newer-style restrooms; the car I came back in was one of the old ones).

Actually, that's probably an older superliner I, built in the 70s. Superliner I's were given a nice refurbish several years ago, while the superliner II's still have their original interior AFAIK (maybe updated seat cushions).

 

[Maglev]

Is the air intake at one end of the Superliners, such that a car's orientation would affect air quality?

 

[fillyjonk]

Is the air intake at one end of the Superliners, such that a car's orientation would affect air quality?

No idea, but that might explain the differences. I was surprised there wasn't a baggage car between the engine and the sleeper but there was not

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Nothing about Superliners is sealed up air tight and the forward door area seems to catch a substantial amount of exhaust when it’s right behind an active locomotive. Normally you have transdorms and baggage cars helping to separate and shield sleeper pax from more of the exhaust. Should hopefully improve as cars are repaired and newer locomotives roll out.

 

[caravanman]

This reminds me of my one and only long distance "First Class" ride in an Indian sleeper train. They have diesel generator cars where there are no overhead wires, and the fumes certainly poluted my ride from the far south (Trivandrum) up to Delhi.
Not wanting to "over egg the pudding", but anyone interested can read about the trip here:

India Travel Forum | IndiaMike.com

 

[UserNameRequired]

Nothing about Superliners is sealed up air tight and the forward door area seems to catch a substantial amount of exhaust when it’s right behind an active locomotive. Normally you have transdorms and baggage cars helping to separate and shield sleeper pax from more of the exhaust. Should hopefully improve as cars are repaired and newer locomotives roll out.

Do new locomotives have Tier rules for exhaust? My diesel autos with DEF and DPF and SCR all have zero diesel smell. They do have an ammonia smell on cold start.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Do new locomotives have Tier rules for exhaust? My diesel autos with DEF and DPF and SCR all have zero diesel smell. They do have an ammonia smell on cold start.

Yes the new Siemens equipment will meet the current Tier rules. The old GE stuff does not.

 

[jis]

This reminds me of my one and only long distance "First Class" ride in an Indian sleeper train. They have diesel generator cars where there are no overhead wires, and the fumes certainly polluted my ride from the far south (Trivandrum) up to Delhi.
Not wanting to "over egg the pudding", but anyone interested can read about the trip here:

India Travel Forum | IndiaMike.com

Those Diesel Generator cars known as EOGs (End On Generators) are now slowly being phased out, replaced by HOGs (Head On Generators), or actually alternators in locomotives, where the power is supplied from the locomotive. In case of the more prevalent, electrics that is of course from the power from the catenary. HOGs are more prevalent in electrics specifically WAP-7 Class, than in the diesels, though some WDP-4s are getting them too. But then diesels in general are getting phased out as the system inches towards its goal of more or less 100% electrification.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The lack of a transition car is the underlying issue here. The door facing the front was not airtight and fumes got into your sleeping car. Amtrak at times have used a shield on the lead car to block the fumes but there are limited numbers available and on certain trains. It seem to be a local shop thing and not a national roll out.

This problem is a well know issue. That can be addressed, but not a high priority for anyone in management to do so.

 

[basketmaker]

I have seen (and riden) Superliner cars both sleeper and lounge that were coupled directly behind the locomotive that have had a sheet metal panel attached to the buffer/diaphragm. It definitely helps in minimizing exhaust fumes. As I did do one trip on the PDX leg of the EB where the lounge was at the head of the consist and no shield. Usually odors/smells like that do not bother me but that PDX/SPK leg was unbearable so I stayed on my bedroom. After SPK it was fine.

 

[me_little_me]

Did you tell the conductor? The conductor is responsible for the train and should have been immediately notified. You probably should have asked the conductor to note it in his report and then made a complaint to Amtrak (and possibly the FRA) to get Amtrak to address such problems which are potentially dangerous to passenger health. It's entirely possible that the engine had a problem that needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

[TrackWalker]

Simply another reason to carry gaffer tape when traveling.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Did you tell the conductor? The conductor is responsible for the train and should have been immediately notified. You probably should have asked the conductor to note it in his report and then made a complaint to Amtrak (and possibly the FRA) to get Amtrak to address such problems which are potentially dangerous to passenger health. It's entirely possible that the engine had a problem that needs to be fixed ASAP.

I want to live in your world.

Sorry not a engine issue, although you can add a exhaust gas pipe extension. That would help, a island tourist railroad did that. Dissimilar metals so the extension was rusty and very noticeable. The tourists railcars were open double deck coaches. Not sure how much of a improvement it was but it should of help.

Ok it could be a engine issue, had a diesel fuel leak that was dripping on my ambulance manifold, we wrote it up as a exhaust leak. Mechanic shop gave us a hard time for try burn our ambulance to the frame.

No sorry, this is a know problem for the Superliner equipment. Not a engine issue per say.

 

[fillyjonk]

The lack of a transition car is the underlying issue here. The door facing the front was not airtight and fumes got into your sleeping car. Amtrak at times have used a shield on the lead car to block the fumes but there are limited numbers available and on certain trains. It seem to be a local shop thing and not a national roll out.

This problem is a well know issue. That can be addressed, but not a high priority for anyone in management to do so.

I'm wondering if it's worth my calling and complaining. If my migraine had not gone away, I'd have had to checked into a hotel in Mineola because it's a 2 1/2 hour drive to home and it's not safe for me to drive with that bad of a headache. I mean, I don't know. I might never encounter the problem again? Maybe my December trip they'll have a transdorm or baggage car between the two?

 

[fillyjonk]

Simply another reason to carry gaffer tape when traveling.

It seemed to be coming in through the ventilation/heating system, I'm not sure how gaffer tape would have helped and I'm not sure the car attendant/conductor would have been cool with someone taping up the door between the car and where the engine was

my head was hurting really badly and I was not up to tracking down the conductor at that point. I just consider it lucky it wasn't one of the migraines that makes me vomit, that has happened with some in the past.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I would call and complain. Amtrak know the problem and has a fix for it. It is coming in thur the door at the front. The fumes are from the engine stack. The cover they use might be a OBS employee fix, but it’s more like a shop thing. They have them, they can make more, and use them.

 

[RovinMoses]

Took the CS from LAX to PDX last Tuesday, arriving ten minutes early into PDX. However, very shortly after departing LAX in Car 1031, Roomette 2, we noticed diesel fumes that you could smell. My eyes seemed to feel the diesel particulate matter. I asked our Attendant about it and she said she must just be used to it. Closing the overhead vent helped a bit, but the fumes would vary in strength depending on wind direction and engine effort. Slept with mask on the top bunk. On the next day, our wonderful Attendant, Regina, said she had talked to her supervisor who ask her to get written statements verifying the condition. Evidently, this is a chronic problem especially when our car is directly behind the two engines instead of being separated by a baggage car. I was happy to write up our experience. Anyone else experienced this. It's funny that there is a warning from the State of California about the cancer causing properties of diesel particulate matter posted in the car!

 

[Cal]

I've been in cars pretty close to the engine before and have never noticed diesel before. Maybe a problem with the car or it was extra-heavy?

 

[Asher]

Took the CS from LAX to PDX last Tuesday, arriving ten minutes early into PDX. However, very shortly after departing LAX in Car 1031, Roomette 2, we noticed diesel fumes that you could smell. My eyes seemed to feel the diesel particulate matter. I asked our Attendant about it and she said she must just be used to it. Closing the overhead vent helped a bit, but the fumes would vary in strength depending on wind direction and engine effort. Slept with mask on the top bunk. On the next day, our wonderful Attendant, Regina, said she had talked to her supervisor who ask her to get written statements verifying the condition. Evidently, this is a chronic problem especially when our car is directly behind the two engines instead of being separated by a baggage car. I was happy to write up our experience. Anyone else experienced this. It's funny that there is a warning from the State of California about the cancer causing properties of diesel particulate matter posted in the car!

Describe that smell, maybe what you could relate it to. I’ve been around diesel powered vehicles, never got the same smell on a train. Could happen though. Not going to kill you IMHO.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Took the CS from LAX to PDX last Tuesday, arriving ten minutes early into PDX. However, very shortly after departing LAX in Car 1031, Roomette 2, we noticed diesel fumes that you could smell. My eyes seemed to feel the diesel particulate matter. I asked our Attendant about it and she said she must just be used to it. Closing the overhead vent helped a bit, but the fumes would vary in strength depending on wind direction and engine effort. Slept with mask on the top bunk. On the next day, our wonderful Attendant, Regina, said she had talked to her supervisor who ask her to get written statements verifying the condition. Evidently, this is a chronic problem especially when our car is directly behind the two engines instead of being separated by a baggage car. I was happy to write up our experience. Anyone else experienced this. It's funny that there is a warning from the State of California about the cancer causing properties of diesel particulate matter posted in the car!

When there isn’t a baggage car between the engines and the first sleeper, they are supposed to put up a protective cover over the door to prevent the diesel fumes from getting into the sleeping car.

Evidently, it either wasn’t installed or wasn’t working as it should.

 

[zephyr17]

When there isn’t a baggage car between the engines and the first sleeper, they are supposed to put up a protective cover over the door to prevent the diesel fumes from getting into the sleeping car.

Evidently, it either wasn’t installed or wasn’t working as it should.

The transdorms don't have an upper forward door, which pretty much eliminates the problem. Trains that traditionally have not run with a transdorm, like the Portland section of the Builder typically have the door "cap" on the leading car. The presence of the cap on trains that are now without a transdorm, or consists with regular sleepers in place of a transdorm, seems hit or miss. I have seen several pictures of trains without a baggage or transdorms with the lead car lacking a cap.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Coming back from one of the Gatherings, the fumes were so bad that I lost my voice. I had to go to speech therapy to be able to speak again. It was directly related to the diesel fumes.

 

[zetharion]

On the Eagle our car was directly behind the locomotive and I never had any exhaust issues in my roomette upstairs.