Dining Service without a Diner

[Anderson]

So, my trip last night on 92 was...well, it was an experience. My complements to the staff for a "show must go on" attitude and bearing with the situation well.

Apparently, 92's diner got bad ordered in New York the other day. So we had an Amcafe in lieu of the "proper" diner. This led to a bit of disappointment (we had beef brisket instead of steak, though the result was...well, mixed), and there were plenty of complaints about breakfast (apparently, only the French Toast worked out for anyone...all I heard from the other tables were complaints, but the toast was...well, toast). Probably the biggest drawback was the lack of salads (I like greens in my diet, and being unable to grab one at either dinner or lunch was a pity).

My takeaways:

1) I'm even less interested in taking the Cardinal now than I was before, but I at least get a feeling the food there won't be toxic.

2) On the other hand, I now see no excuse not to have a half-decent meal available in the cafe, particularly on some of the longer Regional/corridor services (or the Palmetto, for that matter). I get it, you can't do steak in the microwave, but it seems that they can manage quite a bit without full diner facilities.

 

[pennyk]

I was on 92 last Saturday, 7/21, out of Orlando, and we did not have a diner either. The dining car staff did an adequate job with what they had to work with, but, of course the meals are better with a full diner. I thought breakfast was ok. I had the omelet and grits.

 

[Shanghai]

Too bad about not having a "proper" dining car. I wonder if our Pennyk had anything

to do with the situation?? She was recently on the Meteor and maybe they put the "proper"

diner on her train so she would not complain and get another $5,000 voucher!!

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

My complements to the staff for a "show must go on" attitude and bearing with the situation well.

Well put. Its always been my experience that the train staff makes the best of what they are given.

BTW, where's the Viewliner diner? It seems that here is a place where it could do some real good, rather than be out showing off.

 

[jb64]

It is not quite the same as the Cardinal because you do get salads on the Card. I wouldn't give up on the Cardinal quite yet. While I would prefer to take a Superliner, everyone should take the Cardinal at least once just for the scenic route.

 

[MrFSS]

Actually - one of the best meals I have ever had on a train was with the dinner box meal on 28 out of PDX. They have them prepared in a gourmet restaurant and though it was "cold" the food was fantastic and included a small bottle of Champagne. Don't get that even in a dinning car!

 

[jphjaxfl]

If Mica has his way,snack bars will be all that will be available, no matter how long the trip. This would bring an end to most of the long distance trains.

 

[amamba]

$5K voucher?! I need PennyK to do my negotiating with customer relations! :lol:

 

[Mackensen]

My complements to the staff for a "show must go on" attitude and bearing with the situation well.

Well put. Its always been my experience that the train staff makes the best of what they are given.

BTW, where's the Viewliner diner? It seems that here is a place where it could do some real good, rather than be out showing off.

On the Lake Shore Limited. I believe AlanB had it just last week.

I had an AmCafe substituted for a diner on the Lake Shore about a year and a half ago and I agree with Anderson. Mixture of admiration for the OBS crew making the best of a bad job and disappointment at the food quality. Course, I was going in coach that trip which softened the blow.

 

[TVRM610]

If Mica has his way,snack bars will be all that will be available, no matter how long the trip. This would bring an end to most of the long distance trains.

How would it bring an end to long distance trains? The dining cars are not necessary for a long distance train. MrFSS just stated in this thread that one of the better meals he received was the box dinner on the EP for the section that has no diner. There are many options available. Would I miss the Dining car experience? YES. But to think that long distance trains can't run without a dining car? nope. People still ride the Cardinal don't they?

 

[jphjaxfl]

In the last years of private railroads passenger train operations, many of the longer distance trains had no or very limited food service. One train that comes to mind is the Georgian from at St. Louis to Atlanta, 609 miles 17 hours coach only. There were no station restaurants or access to any food. This started in 1967 when the Chicago section of the train was discontinued. L&N petitioned the ICC to discontinue the Georgian. Quite a few passengers went to the "train off"hearings and protested the lack of access to food for 17 hours. The ICC required The L&N to continue the train and add a snack bar coach. The train ran until April 30, 1971. The snack bar was poorly stocked. The patronage had dropped to next to nothing due to lack of proper food service.

 

[Steve4031]

How often are diners getting swapped out for diner lights? I have a big trip coming up involving the crescent. Silver star, and lsl. I understand the diners are old. And can deal with a substitution here or there.

 

[fillyjonk]

I was on a train (22, trip in mid December) where they "bad ordered" the diner after dinner that night. (Apparently there was an inspector on board .... and apparently he was seated at my table but he wasn't very forthcoming about it, though he did hint we might need "other options" for breakfast). Yup, diner got shut down (I forget why - I think it had something to do with there not being hot enough water). So for breakfast sleeper pax were to go to the lounge car and we were given what we wanted from their stock upon showing our ticket stub. (I'm not sure if there was a dollar limit. I got one of the tubs of oatmeal and a little carton of milk. The oatmeal wasn't bad.)

It was okay but I really prefer the dining car!

 

[the_traveler]

BTW - The food is not reheated in a microwave oven. It is a convection oven! Yes, I would much rather have a full diner, but I can live with what's provided.

And I agree with MrFSS about the "cold" boxed dinner out of PDX on #28! I think it was the best meal I ever had on Amtrak!

One of the worst, however, was the "cold" boxed breakfast out of SPK on #27!

 

[Anderson]

If Mica has his way,snack bars will be all that will be available, no matter how long the trip. This would bring an end to most of the long distance trains.

How would it bring an end to long distance trains? The dining cars are not necessary for a long distance train. MrFSS just stated in this thread that one of the better meals he received was the box dinner on the EP for the section that has no diner. There are many options available. Would I miss the Dining car experience? YES. But to think that long distance trains can't run without a dining car? nope. People still ride the Cardinal don't they?

Something better than cafe/diner lite service is necessary on the LD routes, particularly on the longer western routes. My contention is basically this: It doesn't matter if it is table service or get-up-and-get-the-food service, but you need something better than just the cafe.

Now, we can talk about how many FSCs are needed for an LD train, and there can be a serious discussion about how to structure those cars. A diner-club plus a coach-lounge (i.e. a coach with a bit of non-revenue seating space) might be sufficient in some cases. In other cases, the diner-plus-cafe has more to do with dining capacity than it necessarily does with providing two "classes" of food service.

 

[AlanB]

First, I've had greens on the Cardinal in the Diner-Lite car. My guess is that the lack thereof was due to the need to quickly swap out the dinner, not because of the fact that the car couldn't handle having them.

I also suspect that last minute swap led to some of the food choices loaded on board, as the commissary would have needed to scramble to replace items that they had in stock for the train, but could now not be used by the crew on the diner-lite due to the limited nature of cooking facilities.

Next, in an ideal world, those Diner-Lite cars would see service only on long distance day trains like the Palmetto, Penny, Maple Leaf, Adirondack, and the Carolinian. These are all trains that cry out for more than just a cafe car, but need less than a full service diner.

The overnight LD's should be getting regular dining cars and regular cafe cars.

And yes, I had the Viewliner dinner both ways on my recent trip on the LSL. It went west on the 16th and east on the 23rd. And I have no doubt that it made other trips in between.

 

[Rail Freak]

This conversation reminds me of something I witnessed on my 1st & only Cardinal trip a couple of years ago. We were traveling east bound & somewhere in West Virginia, I believe, we stopped. The west bound train stopped next to ours & started swapping goods from our train to the other! We were out in the middle of no where, it seemed to me. I thought this to be unusual but being new to Amtrak I thought "What do I know"!!!! Does this happen frequently?

Thanx

 

[The Davy Crockett]

How often are diners getting swapped out for diner lights? I have a big trip coming up involving the crescent. Silver star, and lsl. I understand the diners are old. And can deal with a substitution here or there.

Last year on the LSL out of NYP our heritage diner was bad ordered and we got a Diner-Lite as a last minute replacement. hboy: I had the trout for dinner. Very, very much to my surprise it was one of the best meals I've had on Amtrak in recent times. :lol: The diner-lites do have a convection oven, same as the heritage diners, so at least some of it depends on the talent in the kitchen.

Breakfasts in the Diner-Lites are not as good as a regular diner, though, as there is no grill. <_<

 

[Anderson]

True, but on a day train, breakfast is the meal most easily handled off the train (i.e. before boarding), so that is somewhat less of an issue. I am wondering if the diner-lite could be upgraded with some sort of grill, though.

I agree wholeheartedly that there should be a push to get a diner-lite on some of the longer day trains; this might also be arguable for 66/67, as well (and indeed for any similar operations that might get tossed in somewhere).

However, I would argue for a second FSC (and indeed, going to a diner/cafe setup) if the trains got sufficiently long...but that's largely a case of taking advantage of capacity needs to try and get better service. A good example here would be if the Adirondack gets "unleashed" and sees ridership jump with the removal of the capacity limits that Customs effectively forces onto the train (and this, in turn, forces more cars onto the train). What is needed for a longer-distance train with 4-6 revenue cars is quite different from what you start needing with 8-10 revenue cars.

Finally, I'll kick the Maple Leaf to one side because of the crew changeover issues. This isn't because VIA is incapable or anything...the changeover at the border likely just makes for a messy transition with too much OBS.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Interesting discussion for sure! Im one of those that thought the Food was Ok on the Cardinal's Diner Lite except for the "French Toast Sticks" that were the Worst Meal Ive had in several hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Amtrak Trips! But put me in the the Cardinal needs a Real Diner Category , nothing beats a Well prepared Diner Meal on a LD Train!

I agree that 8400 is a really Nice way to have a Meal on the Train and was fortunate enough to have it on my last Trip on the LSL to CHI even though I was on the BOS section and had to have "Lunch" in the Cafe Car from BOS-ALB! Hope all the New Diners get finished on Schedule and Amtrak will consider putting a few of the best Heritage Diners onto the Cardinal and not selling or scraping them!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

One of the worst, however, was the "cold" boxed breakfast out of SPK on #27!

No kidding! Almost enough to make one ride to Seattle.

 

[AlanB]

Hope all the New Diners get finished on Schedule and Amtrak will consider putting a few of the best Heritage Diners onto the Cardinal and not selling or scraping them!

Amtrak has no plans to keep any of the Heritage diners around. And frankly, unless they add more trains, they have no need to keep them around. Right now Amtrak manages with 20 dining cars, 21 if you include 8400. They're getting 25 Viewliner II dining cars, which will leave them with 26 Viewliner diners.

That should be more than enough to add dining cars to the Cardinal, if indeed Amtrak wants to do so.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hope all the New Diners get finished on Schedule and Amtrak will consider putting a few of the best Heritage Diners onto the Cardinal and not selling or scraping them!

Amtrak has no plans to keep any of the Heritage diners around. And frankly, unless they add more trains, they have no need to keep them around. Right now Amtrak manages with 20 dining cars, 21 if you include 8400. They're getting 25 Viewliner II dining cars, which will leave them with 26 Viewliner diners.

That should be more than enough to add dining cars to the Cardinal, if indeed Amtrak wants to do so.

Wasn't that what Management said when they got rid of the Heritage Sleepers, Slumber Coaches and the Domes? "We'll have Plenty of Equipment" with the new Viewliners and Amfleets etc. I know you know your stuff Alan, but still think they should keepa few of the Heritage Diners if nothing else for "Specials" and in case of Wrecks, Bad Orders and even, hopefully, a Daily Cardinal, a Single Level CONO freeing up Superliner Equipment for the Busier LD Trains, and even a Diner for the Penn if the proposed run through Sleeper in PGH ever happens?? Broadway Limited Redux anyone?

 

[OBS]

This conversation reminds me of something I witnessed on my 1st & only Cardinal trip a couple of years ago. We were traveling east bound & somewhere in West Virginia, I believe, we stopped. The west bound train stopped next to ours & started swapping goods from our train to the other! We were out in the middle of no where, it seemed to me. I thought this to be unusual but being new to Amtrak I thought "What do I know"!!!! Does this happen frequently?

Thanx

This happens with LD trains on a regular basis... easy way to obtain items that are needed...

 

[Ispolkom]

Wasn't that what Management said when they got rid of the Heritage Sleepers, Slumber Coaches and the Domes?

Different issues, aren't they? The heritage sleepers, and especially the slumbercoaches went because of the retention toilet issue. WRT the heritage diners, those are awfully long in the tooth. I wonder how much extra it costs to maintain a heritage diner vs., say, a Superliner diner.

On the other hand, the Temoinsa rebuilds weren't done that long ago, were they? It would be a shame not to get maximum use out of them.